February Update— Achievement Points , Stars, Novas, Spotlights and Conventions!

Gary Bush wrote:

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

The cheesy option here is to use the level 1 rebuild/full resale rules. Spend level 1 with higher dex and lighter armor, and refurbish when leveling up. It doesn't feel good. But if your role is "tank" but you spend level 1 with lower AC than the rest of the party, that also doesn't feel good.

Given this option is available to our campaign, it don't see it as cheesy.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

The cheesy option is: build a L1 character with say, Dex 14, walk around in breastplate for two sessions, then when you've got enough gold, rebuild to Dex 10 and fullplate.

I think he understood. That’s allowed in the rules of the campaign. Similar things have been allowed for a long time in PFS1 (see making a barbarian at level 1 who becomes whatever else at level 2). If it was seen as an issue, an effort could have been made to discourage it. That wasn’t done, so doing what you suggest may not be seen as cheesy by some.

What I’ve played of PFS2E so far has felt particularly dangerous for level 1 characters, so I can understand why someone might want to go that direction. I haven’t yet, but my main character is a dwarf who had a lot of level 1 hitpoints.

Re: selling armor to manipulate costs... It’s a little unclear now which previous rulings apply and which don’t, but this FAQ is still out there:

I found a way to gain infinite money/power/etc. Is it legal?

No. While we recognize that creative players can find loopholes in the rules, any combination that would grant your character unlimited resources is not legal for use in Organized Play.

Granted, a discount on magic armor is not “unlimited” resources, but generally this is the FAQ that would be referenced for anything like the suggested cost manipulation in the past.

I hate that it’s the case, but I feel like given that we’ve been told it’s a new campaign and that we should not rely on old rulings for PFS2, I have to ask if this still applies (though I’m assuming it does in spirit). Even just a blanket statement about which FAQs apply to 2nd edition PFS would be helpful (ie - none apply, we’ll address things in the guide, or FAQs under General Questions apply to PFS2, but not the others that are about the game mechanics, etc.)

Gary Bush wrote:

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

The cheesy option here is to use the level 1 rebuild/full resale rules. Spend level 1 with higher dex and lighter armor, and refurbish when leveling up. It doesn't feel good. But if your role is "tank" but you spend level 1 with lower AC than the rest of the party, that also doesn't feel good.

Given this option is available to our campaign, it don't see it as cheesy.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

The cheesy option is: build a L1 character with say, Dex 14, walk around in breastplate for two sessions, then when you've got enough gold, rebuild to Dex 10 and fullplate.

And I don't see that as cheesy since our campaign allows this to happen. In 1e I have seen a first level character as a barbarian and when that same character was 2nd level it was rogue. Why? So the character could survive past first level.

Gary Bush wrote:

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

The cheesy option here is to use the level 1 rebuild/full resale rules. Spend level 1 with higher dex and lighter armor, and refurbish when leveling up. It doesn't feel good. But if your role is "tank" but you spend level 1 with lower AC than the rest of the party, that also doesn't feel good.

Given this option is available to our campaign, it don't see it as cheesy.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

The cheesy option is: build a L1 character with say, Dex 14, walk around in breastplate for two sessions, then when you've got enough gold, rebuild to Dex 10 and fullplate.

That still doesn't make sense. You can end up with the highest armor class without Full Plate. Full Plate weirdly boosts reflex saves

Can we move the armor/rebuild/rune transfer discussion to a side thread, feels like its pretty far afield from the topic.

Actually, this does remind me. Why no mention of Plaguestone despite it being one of the first examples provided of what the ACP was meant to handle?

What aspect of ACP and plaguestone are you asking about? It was confirmed upthread that it gives 12 base ACP, subject to all the usual scalings.. ( Ie 3 scenario worth, equal xp as ACP is the announced plan for modules.)

I have two comments to make.

First, regarding ACP:

Overall, I think that AcP is the fairest way to distribute rewards across PFS. Under the old system, I was a boon winner, and received more than my fair share. I had 8 conventions locally in easy driving distance and went to GenCon. I was dripping in boons. But it was patently unfair to my fellow GMs who were in rural areas or Europe, and who could not afford to be part of the convention GM jet set.

I have only 2 qualms about the current system:

One. I cannot give away boons.

I used to give them away all the time to deserving volunteers who would not otherwise see them. Or to complete newbies. Or in a contest. I gave away about 80% of the boons that I earned, and I can't do it now. So I could not gift Wei Ji with a Tengu, and that bums me.

Two. We cannot reward HQ staff.

So... Can we come up with an alternate reporting for HQ? One where you work for 4 hours, and get the same AcP that you do for playing, but don't get GM credits? We could have a special scenario called, "HQ volunteer" that awards AcP but not GM tables. I think this could be doable, assuming that Paizo's tech team was willing to make it happen.

Hmm

Here is my second comment:

Second, aliases are awesome!

I post under other aliases all the time when I filk or whenever I don't want to be wearing the VO hat. Go, aliases!

Besides, some of our aliases have personalities that seem to extend beyond ourselves. I love Charli. She's often someone who speaks for me when I want to be unofficial. And when I want to sing, there's always Strawberry Machine Cake.

Hmm

What aspect of ACP and plaguestone are you asking about? It was confirmed upthread that it gives 12 base ACP, subject to all the usual scalings.. ( Ie 3 scenario worth, equal xp as ACP is the announced plan for modules.)

They were contemplating an ACP boon similar to the spell one just specifically for Plaguestone.

Here is my second comment:

Second, aliases are awesome!

MNAR! *clacks beak in approval*

NielsenE wrote:

What aspect of ACP and plaguestone are you asking about? It was confirmed upthread that it gives 12 base ACP, subject to all the usual scalings.. ( Ie 3 scenario worth, equal xp as ACP is the announced plan for modules.)

They were contemplating an ACP boon similar to the spell one just specifically for Plaguestone.

Ahh yes, found that in the old mega-thread about its sanctioning. They might be waiting to see more tables of it reported before spending time coming up with the boon/ACP cost. There's also the unanswered question of if you need a copy of the module to provide as rules reference for the keepsakes (as a player). Also an update on the Event mode compromise solution had been scheduled for mid-Jan. Hope we get that soon.

There's also the unanswered question of if you need a copy of the module to provide as rules reference for the keepsakes (as a player).

You do not. This should be clarified in an upcoming guide update. This is also likely to propagate to the Chronicles for the upcoming Adventure Path sanctioning.

So... Can we come up with an alternate reporting for HQ? One where you work for 4 hours, and get the same AcP that you do for playing, but don't get GM credits? We could have a special scenario called, "HQ volunteer" that awards AcP but not GM tables. I think this could be doable, assuming that Paizo's tech team was willing to make it happen.

Hmm

No Tech solution: Report staff as playing a fake game

Low Tech solution: Add Confrontation with Contagion as a zero dm credit one ACP quest

Here is my second comment:

Second, aliases are awesome!

I post under other aliases all the time when I filk or whenever I don't want to be wearing the VO hat. Go, aliases!

Besides, some of our aliases have personalities that seem to extend beyond ourselves. I love Charli. She's often someone who speaks for me when I want to be unofficial. And when I want to sing, there's always Strawberry Machine Cake.

Hmm

The Dawnflower approves of aliases and filking. ~Dervish dance if you want to ... ~

Charli Poshkettle wrote:

Here is my second comment:

Second, aliases are awesome!

I post under other aliases all the time when I filk or whenever I don't want to be wearing the VO hat. Go, aliases!

Besides, some of our aliases have personalities that seem to extend beyond ourselves. I love Charli. She's often someone who speaks for me when I want to be unofficial. And when I want to sing, there's always Strawberry Machine Cake.

Hmm

The Dawnflower approves of aliases and filking. ~Dervish dance if you want to ... ~

"Therefore it is the obligation of all members of the Pathfinder snarl Society to work together to explore new musical options and alternate identities! It is only by learning the wiles of the protean ways that variety can be maintained therein!"

"Oh brother..."

Filk in 3...2...1...

Ah we can filk if we want to, we can leave your friends behind.
Cause your friends don't filk and if they don't filk,
Well they're are no friends of mine!
I say, we can go where we want to, A place where they will never find.
And we can act like we come from out of this world,
Leave the real one far behind,
And we can filk!

Safety Filk!

On a more serious note, I do think it would be good to put in a way that gives ACP but not GM credit. That would allow con organizers a way to credit those on HQ or who have all or most of their tables fall through still get some credit for the preparation they did.

I do see less need for boon trading with ACP assuming that boon options are not exclusive to participation.

Support for gifting of boons would be very nice, but it would require some sort of controls on it. You don’t want someone at a con convincing a bunch of people to just do a demo and then gifting all their ACP to them.

With the situation right now, as a volunteer I am always asking that I be given at least one Starfinder table so I can collect the boon. The difference in ACP between GMing normally and at a con seems too little. GMing at a con takes a lot more effort than the regular games.

The biggest single problem I see with the ACP rewards and conventions is the big conventions are so slow to report and tables go missing.

I've been following the discussion even though I have done nothing 2E related. In general what is being described really does seem like a solid system overall to replace the combination of reward systems. It is certainly fair that those who do more benefit more in general. Numerically I think the con's have close to the right value, but locally at least the benchmark for convention GMing had been 2 tables earns the boon. We certainly see a pretty large number of people locally who get to some of the other game days, but see a significant amount of their org play time at the conventions. For that group if that balance point in AcP isn't quite right it could be really discouraging given past expectations. Even more so if folks are planning on a certain number of tables, 1 happens not to fire and it might mean a 6 month delay in getting the thing they wanted.

I'm hugely happy with org play in general and all of the gaming it has let me do. Nevertheless it was rather disheartening to have a special table fall through last year (for the second year in a row) as it became very unfeasible [for me] to chase down star *5. As a result I am rather empathetic to making sure people who sign-up to help the community are rewarded as expected.

My only concern with the system is how do we correct our ACP total if some reporting issue occurs. Personally, I have had games go unreported for some time and sometimes not at all.

Then how do I go about purchasing boons if the totals are messed up?

For example, my account only show 40 points. However, when I do the math and count up my chronicle sheets it adds up to 86. I know I have enough to by a race boon, but cannot due to games not being reported.

How does this situation get resolved?

My only concern with the system is how do we correct our ACP total if some reporting issue occurs. Personally, I have had games go unreported for some time and sometimes not at all.

Then how do I go about purchasing boons if the totals are messed up?

For example, my account only show 40 points. However, when I do the math and count up my chronicle sheets it adds up to 86. I know I have enough to by a race boon, but cannot due to games not being reported.

How does this situation get resolved?

The AcP are not correct. That's been known since Day One of PFS2. Once the system is up and running, the point totals should have been recalculated. I do not know the process that Org Play will use, but I suspect they will get the points fixed for the players shortly before the AcP system goes live.

Last I heard, Tonya said the system was in the QA process. I'm expecting it to be out in the next 6-7 weeks.

Zachary Davis wrote:

My only concern with the system is how do we correct our ACP total if some reporting issue occurs. Personally, I have had games go unreported for some time and sometimes not at all.

Then how do I go about purchasing boons if the totals are messed up?

For example, my account only show 40 points. However, when I do the math and count up my chronicle sheets it adds up to 86. I know I have enough to by a race boon, but cannot due to games not being reported.

How does this situation get resolved?

The AcP are not correct. That's been known since Day One of PFS2. Once the system is up and running, the point totals should have been recalculated. I do not know the process that Org Play will use, but I suspect they will get the points fixed for the players shortly before the AcP system goes live.

Last I heard, Tonya said the system was in the QA process. I'm expecting it to be out in the next 6-7 weeks.

I know it is not correct now. I am thinking ahead when it does go live and there are discrepancies between paper and what is online. It used to be that paper overruled what was reported on line.

We are now relying on others to report these games and ultimately allowing us to access boons in a timely manner.

Until Paizo announces the AcP is fully deployed and ready to use, anything you see on your account is likely to be inaccurate. Once the switch is flipped, the points should self correct assuming the games were reported correctly. Unless the intention changes between now and then, the RVCs will have the ability to make AcP adjustments in some form or fashion for events that occurred in their region and I will have the ability to correct AcP for the premier events. This is similar to how the VC/RVC can fix errors in reported tables.

I have the same concerns as Zachary about timely reporting. I still haven't seen reporting from a Con in October last year.

It is something a player has little or no control over that can stop them from achieving a boon they have legitimately earnt.

That subject inspired me to make a separate thread about Timeliness and AcP.

I'm sure it's on everyone's mind.

That subject inspired me to make a separate thread about Timeliness and AcP.

I'm sure it's on everyone's mind.

Thanks Nefreet. Was thinking about starting one myself and you beat me to it.