Pathfinder Society Retail Incentive Program Announced!

I'm 110% in favor of supporting local game stores but I hate owning physical product. I think own 3 actual Pathfinder books (and they never leave the closet). The rest of my Paizo goods were all purchased as PDFs.

Remember, you can buy ANYTHING in the store and have it count. Try Call of Cthulhu and make your friends less likely to kick the bucket in the process.

Everyone should try Trail of Cthulhu.

Come on whales come play with me. I need that security blanket!

Me- Johnny where are you going you need to make a stabilization check or you die this round.

Johnny- Umm I suddenly decided I need another core rulebook, monster manual, and every miniature in the store.

Me 10 min later- Ok Johnny fine, looks like you continue to bleed out for 10 more rounds.

Me- Johnny where are you going you need to make a stabilization check or you die this round.

Johnny- Umm I suddenly decided I need another core rulebook, monster manual, and every miniature in the store.

Me 10 min later- Ok Johnny fine, looks like you continue to bleed out for 10 more rounds.

"A player can acquire and redeem a receipt during play so long as doing so would not significantly disrupt gameplay, though it must occur before an encounter begins. "

Sorry. Johnny dies.

Dies at the end!

BUT you can use it to reduce the PP cost of your raise dead, which might actually save your character because you either did not have enough pp or gold to do so but was close to the PP.

BUT you can use it to reduce the PP cost of your raise dead, which might actually save your character because you either did not have enough pp or gold to do so but was close to the PP.

True, but again, that would have to be after combat was over.

two things

1) another one who's games start as the store opens, please change it to be able to use receipt at next applicable game day after purchase

2) another one who hates physical, no storage! would pay a bit over paizo price on PDFs to support local store

Nothing to say, other than nice idea!
More innovation - kudos to Tonya and John. :)

Feral wrote:

I'm 110% in favor of supporting local game stores but I hate owning physical product. I think own 3 actual Pathfinder books (and they never leave the closet). The rest of my Paizo goods were all purchased as PDFs.

Remember, you can buy ANYTHING in the store and have it count. Try Call of Cthulhu and make your friends less likely to kick the bucket in the process.

That's just asking for something weird to happen...

I like this. I also like that there is a benefit to the whole table, it helps mitigate "pay to win" claims.

I'm wondering if there is a standardized sign/poster for the location to use to announce that they participate.

I like this. I also like that there is a benefit to the whole table, it helps mitigate "pay to win" claims.

I'm wondering if there is a standardized sign/poster for the location to use to announce that they participate.

I think there is enough customization (what qualifies, etc.) that I don't think a single standardized poster is really the way to go. But a program Logo would be nice...

Tonya,

At my local game store we have a system where we all put in and get a voucher for the table (with a roll off at the end to see who gets it)

would you be happy for us to use this as an item bought, or would you prefer when we cash them in for a product

You have to make the purchase on the same day for benefit? That's lame.

I always buy stuff AFTER the scenario so I'm not disrupting the game, and I have more time to shop.

The Seldon Plan wrote:

All my game stores do tabs, so I'm wondering how this'll work out since we close our tabs out at the end of the game...

Tonya Woldridge wrote:

If stores don't do receipts, they can work with their Venture-Agent to work out something.

I think this will be important to our local scene. We don't buy a lot of game product these days, but the food and drinks do add up. Might have to involve buying each other drinks to "inoculate" and get a sufficiently large receipt from a single player though ;)

I'd think that a good guideline would be "Does the location have an event calendar which shows that you're playing PFS there on Wednesdays?"

If it does, then purchases made there would probably count. If not, then they wouldn't. So playing at your local Starbucks or Pizza joint isn't likely to qualify, but playing at "Bob's Boardgame Cafe" would, as long as someone at the store says it's OK.

I have game stores here that do not have an event calendar. Game stores. Under your suggestion, they wouldn't qualify. Sorry, but no, that's not a good standard to use.

Great sounding program.

Just emailed my store owner to let me know about it
and to get his list of what items he wants to push.

Their is some vagueness but that will be ironed out as Paizo hears about how it's working.

One of my stores charges $5 to each player, but $4 of that becomes store credit. Would this policy kick in based off the $5, or only count as $1 until the store credit gets spent?

Similar / broader question. If someone buys a gift card, does the program kick in when buying the card? Or redeeming it?

One of my stores charges $5 to each player, but $4 of that becomes store credit. Would this policy kick in based off the $5, or only count as $1 until the store credit gets spent?

Similar / broader question. If someone buys a gift card, does the program kick in when buying the card? Or redeeming it?

If I were in that situation, I would talk to the storeowner/manager to see how they want to implement the program.

John Francis wrote:

I'd think that a good guideline would be "Does the location have an event calendar which shows that you're playing PFS there on Wednesdays?"

If it does, then purchases made there would probably count. If not, then they wouldn't. So playing at your local Starbucks or Pizza joint isn't likely to qualify, but playing at "Bob's Boardgame Cafe" would, as long as someone at the store says it's OK.

I have game stores here that do not have an event calendar. Game stores. Under your suggestion, they wouldn't qualify. Sorry, but no, that's not a good standard to use.

It's not exactly my suggestion - the original announcement from Tonya states "Locations utilizing the program should advertise its presence to their clientele".

@Philderbeast et al

It is very, VERY, difficult to formulate a one size fits all policy. We are talking about a global organized play campaign. As an analogy - think of it like paint by numbers. We gave organizers and location owners a canvas with outlines and some numbers. Each location gets to paint the picture. The paintings will be similar, but slightly different as they are customized for each location. As long as everyone in the location knows the parameters for using the program, the rough $ to rewards are maintained, extra rewards aren't added, criteria don't change based on the client, and everyone can utilize the program, it is hitting the main outlines and fulfills the purpose of the policy.

So, If Store A does a tab by table and wants to make it so GM checks with the clerk to make sure there is enough $ on the tab to cover the reward, that is good. If a location plays every week at Starbucks and the event organizer is taking responsibility for implementing the program and the players know about it, that is good. If Store B says the purchaser of the gift certificate, not the redeemer, gets the reward, then that is fine. If Store C wants to use store buy-ins as the basisfor the reward, that is okay too. It is up to the location owner and event organizer to work out the details of how to implement it in that location.

As a note, Erik Mona, Linda ZP, and Mark Seifter worked on this as well. It was a full PFS team initiative. I do appreciate the thanks. It is great to hear when we hit the mark, as well as when we miss it!

Paizo has just offered everyone a way to get additional bonuses as a way to help the local game stores that support PFS by providing players a location to play. This is not about giving out free PDFs to players or supporting pubs who don't allocate space for your games or public venues who don't give a rat's @$$ what you are doing as long as you are buying food and drinks the whole time, don't cause a disturbance, and they don't need the table for paying customers.

Let's get back to the spirit of the program which is;

Support the venues that allow you to schedule games by giving up retail space and get an in-game benefit.

I would limit it to purchases at FLGSs and vendors at conventions made on the day of the game.

I also run and play in games that start when the store officially opens. Our game store opens the doors early to get ready for the day, but as long as you don't mind dealing with the noise of a vacuum cleaner, you can go in and get your tables set up early. This means players can come early as well and pick out what they want before the game and take a few minutes to pay for them before the game starts. It seems unlikely that you have to start playing the very second the doors open, since the GM will need a few minutes to set up. So there has to be a few minutes to make a quick purchase as long as you aren't looking for the perfect mini and need to examine every mini in the store. If time is really an issue, call the day before and have the store set aside what you want.

I really don't see what everyone is whining about. Personally, I always buy at least several sodas and usually anything else I need because the store is supporting PFS play and I appreciate their support. Now I'll maybe get an in-game boon from it. Why does that make everyone want free PDFs and the boon to work when there is no game store or cooperation from the venue at all?

sounds great...

@Muser, Wednesday Addams wants to know if your Trail of Cthulhu mix contains actual investigators or spare odds and ends washed ashore R'lyeh.

I'm excited to see what the card guild we offer. I tend to not buy the PACG products at the store we play at, but I try to buy something every time I'm there, whether it is food, a deck box, or some completely unrelated game.

I think this is a great idea. Thanks for doing it.

As a Registered retailer i whole heartedly embrace this program. With that said and not to derail the conversation but i do have another question which may or may not be on topic.

Q. Is there some sort of time frame on when we retailers who have opted in to receive downloadable PFS scenarios is going to go into effect?

I don't know if the powers that be are lurking and have any form of answer towards this but i figured that this would be something that goes hand in hand with "Retailer Incentive".

Slightly weird scenario, I wonder how common it is.

I play in a game store that serves food and drinks, to keep everything moving efficiently most people open a tab at the beginning of the evening by handing over a credit card, order stuff throughout the night, then close out their tab before they go home.

The result is that while I buy ~$10 worth of stuff each night I don't actually get a receipt until after the game when I close my tab and go home.

Several options suggest themselves:

a) People who run tabs just don't participate.

b) My GM takes me at my word mid-game when I claim the beer in my hand came from the store's bar and I present a receipt after the game.

c) I stop running a tab and pester the bartender for a receipt after each purchase.

d) The window for redeeming a receipt is widened from the same day to say the same month or some other period (i.e. I buy something on Friday of week 1 and redeem it when I come back two weeks later)?

e) Few enough places run tabs that it isn't worth fretting about.

Does Paizo have any preferences between the above options? My preference is b, but that doesn't strictly obey the rules.

Does Paizo have any preferences between the above options? My preference is b, but that doesn't strictly obey the rules.

Unless I hear otherwise from Tonya or the PFS team, my intent is to let the retailer decide how to implement that in the respective store, in the manner best for that specific business.

Why should the retailer even know about this? I understand FLGS that sponsor PFS will want to put up a poster or such but a group that plays at Starbucks or such will just show their receipts to the GM and not involved the store in any other way.

The retailer *has* to be involved - it's not a blanket program.

The retailer *has* to be involved - it's not a blanket program.

Nothing in this announcement seems to require it. The retailer gets more sales because PFS play incentivizes. Unless the retailer gets something else from the program why should PFS players who play somewhere not gaming related even contact the retailer?

The retailer gets to decide what purchases qualify, and lets the PFS players and GMs know. If they don't do anything about the program, the program does not apply at that venue.

We realize that demographics are different and each retail location should decide what is best for their business, thus participation in the retail incentive program is not mandatory. Locations utilizing the program should advertise its presence to their clientele.

In other words, it's not a PFS rule; it's an option for retail locations to offer for PFS games in their venue.

I'm sorry, but I feel its highly discriminatory towards impoverished players. "Sorry,but to play legit you have to buy the books, plus pay for a playing space, plus bus fare if you aren't privileged enough to afford a car, now you have to shell out an additional 10-40 a month to "power up and win".
I had an Orange shirt volunteer at Paizo con ridicule and shame me in front of a mustered group of players for not being able to afford an internet capable smart phone. This takes me right back to that very hurtful moment. The hobby only wants PFS players who can "pay to win" it seems.
I expect ridicule for my statement of course, because it always seems to be acceptable to shame and now exclude poor people from the richer kids's reindeer games.

This is a voluntary program. You do not need to participate in it to succeed and enjoy organized play.

Also the benefits are for the table, not the individual.

Hmm

I thought that only applied to $50 or more expenditures. My bad. Sorry to offend everyone who can afford the boons. Not my intent.

I was thinking about this new feature, and I have figured out why I do not like it.

Pay to win I find abhorrent, but I also believe in putting money into the products and services you want more of. This to me is more pay to win than supporting your store I feel.

I love the initiative Piazo spent on this, but the reward is clunky rules, and power creep. I think a better reward would be boons to reward players for purchases at the store. There are avid complaints about convention only boons and people unable to attend. This is a great fix for that. I would much rather the money system you have in place now match what you have already.

For example if you buy X book you get Y options. If you bought Y dollars of stuff you can you X boon.

I don't get all the conplaints. It seems straight forward to me.

1) Paizo is trying to reward the FLGS's.

2) Paizo is giving players a relatively minor in game boost to you if you support your FLGS.

3) It's not unreasonable for a for profit company to have policies in place to support their profits and continued existence.

Thank you very much Tonya for this incentive..

I love the initiative Piazo spent on this, but the reward is clunky rules, and power creep. I think a better reward would be boons to reward players for purchases at the store. There are avid complaints about convention only boons and people unable to attend. This is a great fix for that. I would much rather the money system you have in place now match what you have already.

They already have that, except you don't even have to pay money...

Link

On the organizational side, we receive requests for convention support from events that don't meet the requirements for venue or size. We don't like saying "no" to these events, so we put our heads together, and developed a "Game Day" program to augment our convention support program.
...
We came up with a flexible program that allows us to tailor our response based on the region and needs of the community. The Game Day program supports three non-convention venues—the venue that is a consistently strong performer that needs recognition for its accomplishments, the venue that is new and could use support to establish itself, and those events that are not quite conventions because they occur in retail establishments or are just under the table requirements. All Game Days still must follow the requirement of being open to the public, registered on paizo.com, and having some form of online advertisement.

We decided the Regional Venture-Coordinators (RVC) know their areas best, so they should choose Game Days under the new program. Each RVC gets 10 such events a quarter. We chose 10 as a baseline number until we can see the reach of the program and identify the regional needs. The RVC works with the event organizer in establishing goals based off of attendance, event offerings, and community needs. Each Game Day should have a basic, stretch, and super stretch goal. Rewards in the form of player and GM boons scale with the goals, with all Game Days getting the basic Tier 3 rewards. If a Game Day meets its stretch goals, then they earn Tier 2 rewards, just as super stretch equals Tier 1.

We are two thirds of the way through our first one here in Sacramento, and I am already in the planning stages for the next one! So far, I have given out ~6 GM race boons just for GMing at the store, and almost as many Tier 3 (Non race) GM bonns, and a whole bunch of awesome player boons. We have only got the Tier 2 Player rewards yet, but they are awesome enough that I am having trouble even guessing what Tier 1 is going to be.

I will say, the Tier 1 GM boon is epic.

The gameday program is still a link that goes nowhere on this end of things.

Talk to your VL/VC/RVC?

It is something where your VL or VC have to put in a certain amount of effort to make it happen. But once we got some kinks worked out, it ran really smoothly.

Talk to your VL/VC/RVC?

It is something where your VL or VC have to put in a certain amount of effort to make it happen. But once we got some kinks worked out, it ran really smoothly.

erf

my RVC covers

Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, New Jersey, New York, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Quebec & the Atlantic Regions of Canada

By a quick count thats about https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1948126 10 boons for 50 venues.

So in 5 years your venu would get one boon, which would mean running 125 games to get a boon assuming a biweekly scheduel and 1 dm.

The blog post states that players can pool their receipts for the $50 benefit level, but it also seems to imply that the players can pool their receipts to get the $10 benefit level. Is that correct?

The FLGS I play at doesn't carry much (or any) Pathfinder items, but it sells soda and candy bars. A table of five could easily get to the $10 limit, but not one person.

Jared Thaler wrote:

Talk to your VL/VC/RVC?

It is something where your VL or VC have to put in a certain amount of effort to make it happen. But once we got some kinks worked out, it ran really smoothly.

erf

my RVC covers

Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, New Jersey, New York, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Quebec & the Atlantic Regions of Canada

By a quick count thats about https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1948126 10 boons for 50 venues.

So in 5 years your venu would get one boon, which would mean running 125 games to get a boon assuming a biweekly scheduel and 1 dm.

Mine covers all of South America. :)

ten events *per quarter* That is 40 per year. Each region is different, so I don't know if it helps, but here is how ours works. Our region is divided into 15 sub regions, each of which gets events (in random order) then starts from the top. So Sacramento will get (probably) 2 events every 9 months. I have 4-5 venues to spread those among, but a lot of our players play more than one venue. And each event lasts an entire quarter, so that is a lot of opportunities to drop in to a venue you don't go to often.

Also, you should only be GMing 1 in 4 games, and playing 3. So, over 31 weeks (approximately) 6 weeks should get boons, and you should GM 8 games.

The blog post states that players can pool their receipts for the $50 benefit level, but it also seems to imply that the players can pool their receipts to get the $10 benefit level. Is that correct?

The FLGS I play at doesn't carry much (or any) Pathfinder items, but it sells soda and candy bars. A table of five could easily get to the $10 limit, but not one person.

It is my understanding that yes, you can pool receipts for all levels.

Everyone should try Trail of Cthulhu.

But no one should try trail mix of Cthulhu.

Just thought that I'd report that tonight this new incentive program saved a character from death :-).

Muser wrote:

Everyone should try Trail of Cthulhu.

But no one should try trail mix of Cthulhu.

But it is crazy good...