Gen Con Preview Blog

Oh, dang, that Troop Combat demo sounds GREAT!

Oh, dang, that Troop Combat demo sounds GREAT!

I would love if this is the beginnings of a war game set in the Pathfinder setting.

As someone who ran AoA to completion I vastly dislike the choice of where the troop demo is occurring because it breaks canon for probably every single group that has played the AP. I feel that for almost any group that finished the AP there is at least one level 20 PC at the Citadel and probably more. Just one of them solos both armies put together.

As someone who ran AoA to completion I vastly dislike the choice of where the troop demo is occurring because it breaks canon for probably every single group that has played the AP. I feel that for almost any group that finished the AP there is at least one level 20 PC at the Citadel and probably more. Just one of them solos both armies put together.

I mean, with that argument, we shouldn't have gotten any future adventures in Sandpoint ever again

Curse my inability to make it to GenCon!

Age of Ashes happened 6 years ago on the timeline, so it's uncertain whether your adventuring party would be there. At that level they might be doing mythic adventures, visiting other planets, fighting fey invasions in the first world, etc. Maybe everyone left for a holiday and this was a surprise attack on their house guards.

Like the other person said, adventures like Seven Dooms of Sandpoint imply that the previous adventurers left to some other quest. Not many retire quietly. Though it might be cool to frame it as one or the group of heroes is acting as your commander, they send you (troops) out to fight the enemy troops, then need to fight their own big bad evil guy offscreen. I think Kingmaker does that with it's army combat, the players fight a boss separate from the troops fighting eachother.

I'm curious about this combat though; is this at Player scale with infantry blocks, is this shrunk down to troops acting as single units on the board, is this on a regular map or hex map like hexploration?

Am I breaking out my Frostgrave gangs or my 6mm infantry for this?

I so cannot wait for these rules. Which is why it's tragic for me that with how my campaigns are going, by the time I get these book some military encounters that these rules would of been perfect for would of already happened. Either why I'm looking forward to Gen Con.

As someone who ran AoA to completion I vastly dislike the choice of where the troop demo is occurring because it breaks canon for probably every single group that has played the AP. I feel that for almost any group that finished the AP there is at least one level 20 PC at the Citadel and probably more. Just one of them solos both armies put together.

Because Hellkniights can’t have level 20 members? I’m not really sure what the argument is? Maybe the heroes from the AP abandoned it for a larger keep? Maybe the death of a major god convinced them they were needed elsewhere? Maybe Godrain triggered some anomaly in the gates and they were sent into the future where they accidentally became responsible for The Gap in Starfinder?

There’s an endless number of reasons why the heroes might not still be there. The events that happened in the AP are canon, but the unique actions of the players involved aren’t because there’s absolutely no way for Paizo to account for what hundreds of different groups might have done.

Troop pregen character, are you telling us we can make troop PCs? *starts aggressively planning out a three-kobold-in-trenchcoat character*

there’s absolutely no way for Paizo to account for what hundreds of different groups might have done.

This would be a substantially more compelling argument if there weren't an entire rest of the planet they could have picked to set this scenario at where this problem didn't arise.

I just shared this blog with the group I ran AOA for and every single one of them got angry about it.

This would be a substantially more compelling argument if there weren't an entire rest of the planet they could have picked to set this scenario at where this problem didn't arise.

Well by your logic not the whole planet, because anywhere that has already been featured wouldn't be suitable.

I just shared this blog with the group I ran AOA for and every single one of them got angry about it.

That's very sad.

Setting a one-shot in a place that people know makes most players happy to see it revisited. I know I love seeing stuff set in Sandpoint or Kintargo.

I guess not angry enough to want to stop it from happening then.

Can’t wait for SF2! Also I worked on several cool sections of Battlecry! - excited to get my hands on that finally!

LiaElf76 wrote:

there’s absolutely no way for Paizo to account for what hundreds of different groups might have done.

This would be a substantially more compelling argument if there weren't an entire rest of the planet they could have picked to set this scenario at where this problem didn't arise.

I just shared this blog with the group I ran AOA for and every single one of them got angry about it.

Yeah, all my my AOA players were either confused or unhappy about it as well, really a peculiar choice.

LiaElf76 wrote:

there’s absolutely no way for Paizo to account for what hundreds of different groups might have done.

This would be a substantially more compelling argument if there weren't an entire rest of the planet they could have picked to set this scenario at where this problem didn't arise.

I just shared this blog with the group I ran AOA for and every single one of them got angry about it.

I don't want every place an Adventure Path party could've plausibly retired to getting knocked out of danger permanently, personally. That feels really limiting for future storylines.

Sandpoint, as mentioned, 'should' be bulletproof if 1e's heroes are still around. Ravounel 'should' have a superheroic party committed to its continued existence. Does Strength of Thousands mean that Nantanumbu is immune to significant harm forever now?

Hell, the AoA party are accomplished dragonslayers—maybe they were lured away from Breechill by reports of an infernal dragon.

Shisumo wrote:

This would be a substantially more compelling argument if there weren't an entire rest of the planet they could have picked to set this scenario at where this problem didn't arise.

Well by your logic not the whole planet, because anywhere that has already been featured wouldn't be suitable.

That would still leave pretty much the whole damn planet.

More relevantly, even most other APs don't specifically give the PCs a base to operate from in the first book and then devote significant page count in the later books to downtime activities the PCs can take to rebuild, personalize, and fortify their base to make it even more their own. Most of the first half of the AP contains substantial "give the players and their characters a sense of ownership over this space" content that few other APs can match. Seeing all that work ignored and getting frustrated about it is not an unreasonable reaction.

I guess not angry enough to want to stop it from happening then.

The consensus that appears to be emerging is "Yeah, that didn't happen in our Golarion, one of our PCs wandered through, wiped out all the Hellknights single-handed, and went on about their day" so... yeah, I guess we won't be running that adventure, if home play would otherwise be an option.

Eh, it's one hour of gameplay, I'm sure you have plenty of other content that you'll actually enjoy.

I am so fascinated with this picture people are painting.

Paizo wants to do a public example of new troop skirmish rules, designed in a way to catch the eye of convention-goers that will literally be walking from booth to booth to find something interesting. They throw together a little scenario you'll play for an hour before going to lunch, and as a framing device, they flavor it after a popular and recognizable adventure. Just a bit of fluff to make people go "hey, I recognize that!"- again, you are fighting for their attention in a physical location.

To look at that, and say "well THAT breaks the canon of players who finished the adventure you're referencing!".....

I want to live in a world where this makes me angry. The idea of having opinions about this is wonderful to me. I'm almost jealous of the idea that anyone knows more than one person that would ever react that way, for any reason.

Is the hour-long convention demo supposed to revolve around someone's level 20 adventurers coming in and resolving the conflict? Is it foul to reference conflict happening in a location players are emotionally attached to? Do you believe that this is a canonical continuation, instead of just a tech demo?

These are all hypothetical questions, of course. I'm just really enjoying them.

I know Under the Eye of the Mantis is, but is Collision’s Wake one of those multi-table special scenarios? It is only one table, but the setup with the iconics and the description doesn't allude to this being the case

For context, Andoran taking Breachill from the Hellknights is also the setting of the upcoming Year 7 Intro module for Pathfinder Society, so upset AoA players will need to sit out more than one hour of gameplay.

I know Under the Eye of the Mantis is, but is Collision’s Wake one of those multi-table special scenarios? It is only one table, but the setup with the iconics and the description doesn't allude to this being the case

It is not a multi-table special, no.

Kalnix wrote:

As someone who ran AoA to completion I vastly dislike the choice of where the troop demo is occurring because it breaks canon for probably every single group that has played the AP. I feel that for almost any group that finished the AP there is at least one level 20 PC at the Citadel and probably more. Just one of them solos both armies put together.

I mean, with that argument, we shouldn't have gotten any future adventures in Sandpoint ever again

Or Kintargo.

For context, Andoran taking Breachill from the Hellknights is also the setting of the upcoming Year 7 Intro module for Pathfinder Society, so upset AoA players will need to sit out more than one hour of gameplay.

Oh wow. I had not heard about that.

I hope they'll at least give us an explanation for where the people who canonically made the citadel their home are? I mean it would be like referencing the Stolen Lands as if they were never settled in Kingmaker right? That's the only other AP I know of that revolves around a single location in a similar way.

Seriously, how would players who've gone through Kingmaker feel about that?

Perses13 wrote:

For context, Andoran taking Breachill from the Hellknights is also the setting of the upcoming Year 7 Intro module for Pathfinder Society, so upset AoA players will need to sit out more than one hour of gameplay.

Oh wow. I had not heard about that.

I hope they'll at least give us an explanation for where the people who canonically made the citadel their home are? I mean it would be like referencing the Stolen Lands as if they were never settled in Kingmaker right? That's the only other AP I know of that revolves around a single location in a similar way.

Seriously, how would players who've gone through Kingmaker feel about that?

Branching alternate reality? Why is it so hard for people to understand that how things go on your home game doesn't mean there isn't some hard coded story outcome for the games as a whole. Even with society play where choices can matter they have take into account multiple groups and out comes.

Some people just hate instanced play I guess.

Branching alternate reality? Why is it so hard for people to understand that how things go on your home game doesn't mean there isn't some hard coded story outcome for the games as a whole. Even with society play where choices can matter they have take into account multiple groups and out comes.

It's not just your home game though. It's written into the AP. You get attached to it. The reason you're there is that it contains a number of elf gates. There's a strong incentive for someone powerful to be there at all times. Beyond just getting attached to a place that you've taken ownership of, repaired, improved, and defended (all of these things are part of the AP), it's a powerful location that gives you access in seconds to the Mwangi Expanse, Ravounel, the Five Kings Mountains, Katapesh, and Hermea.

I need to hear an explanation for why the citadel is now abandoned. A large portion of the AP is devoted to combatting an organization that wanted access to that set of gates. It's not just cannon for the players. The outcome of the AP is cannon for the game universe. There are Legacy Backgrounds for society play tied directly to this AP - only accessible if you got all the way through it. It's the only AP so far those exist for right?

I'm definitely going to play the intro to year 7. I've been doing this since year 1. I'm not about to stop. I just want to know that there's a explanation. I'm hoping it comes in that intro mod.

Did the gates get destroyed? Did the heroes of the citadel go through the gates during The Missing Moment and not come back? Was there literally something That Important (c) happening and they are off handling it? Did they go out for cigarettes and not come back? Just tell me.

Probably better for you to just pick the reason that satisfies you rather than hope Paizo picks the right one.

One of the great things about having your own table's continuity is that you control what happens where. If you have players with a vested interest in Hellknight Hill who don't like the idea of playing low-level characters saving the same spot after their prior PCs moved on, or who can't come up with a reason why their specific characters might not be there to defend it, then in your campaign the events that take place in Breachill in this and other adventures can just happen somewhere else. Or not at all. You decide what's canon at your table.

Really excited for the Invasion's Edge story!! Do we know how big the ship is? It's a little hard to tell. The size of a mountain maybe? I'd love to throw foreshadowing into the level 1 encounter from a couple blogs ago, but I'm not sure if it'd be big enough on the horizon :)