A Pathfinder Abomination Vaults ARPG coming to Kickstarter!

Oh yeah there is plenty of time XD

And yeah that has my interest the most right now, the interparty interactions.

Seems interesting and will be worth a look.

I like ARPGs. I would consider myself a fan of the genre, having played and enjoyed many. I'm also a super-fan of Pathfinder (like, inject it straight into my veins). I love multiplayer games. I've backed tons of kickstarter projects. I want everyone involved in this to succeed, and I hate being a debbie downer. I feel like I must be the dead center of the target audience...

I still don't think this is a good idea at all, and almost definitely won't be backing it.

I'll give some of my thoughts, for whatever good that will do:

1. ARPGs are fundamentally incompatible with the PF2 engine, and therefore any mechanical similarities will be superficial at best, and a constant reminder that this isn't really Pathfinder at worst. Whereas a game branded differently could be excellent on its own merits, I'll instead be comparing this to true PF2 and it will lose its luster by failing to meet expectations.

2. ARPGs are incredibly difficult to get right. The core gameplay loop has to be nailed down perfectly or it will flop, and this includes animations, sounds, rewards, and pacing. Even Blizzard has been stumbling on this over and over.

3. ARPGs are a saturated market. Since this isn't going to be using PF2 rules, I can take my pick of any existing *excellent* ARPG to play instead. The only thing keeping my interest is the Pathfinder name, and that's actually a negative due to point #1.

4. ARPGs struggle with implementing and balancing customization, and playing my own unique character is the whole point of Pathfinder. Since everything needs to be tightly animated and balanced for a successful ARPG (see point #2), the number of player options shrink compared to what you could achieve in a turn-based game where you don't have to worry about things like animation canceling.

5. ARPGs don't have social challenges, leaving a whole swathe of the Pathfinder experience completely un-utilized.

After giving it more thought, it might be able to carve out its place by using a slower pacing with an emphasis on teamwork to achieve truly satisfying and impressive kill-efficiency. Current ARPGs lack teamwork to any significant degree, and are so fast paced and spammy you don't even have time to think about what your team is doing. Leaning into teamwork would harken back to PF2's play philosophy while setting it apart from other ARPGs.

I'd still love to see more customization, as playing as the iconics is pretty hard to get excited about. I want to play my own characters! That's the main reason I get excited about PF video games.

Bummer about this being an ARPG. Like many I was hoping for a turn based CRPG using the PF2E rules. I'd never even heard of a 'couch co-op' till now. I don't even own a console, this would never work on a PC even if I were interested. I don't even own a TV, or even a couch, lol.

Still, best of luck, I really do hope it's successful. Plenty of people seem interested I guess. I'll wait for the next one.

No, nope. Doesn't look very promising even for a co-op ARPG (which I also look for and play sometimes).

Looks really interesting, but far too many spiders for me to be able to handle it T-T

Hope the kickstarter campaign goes well, though!

Yea, I saw the spider and squirmed a bit. Maybe they’d consider an arachnophobia mode if they get enough extra resources from the KS. I know a couple of games started doing that.

I was hoping for a Crpg too, but am open to giving this a shot - especially since doing an AP via couch coop sounds pretty fun and chill

What I'm really interested in is how much story there will be. I will play an arpg with a really good story, but I can never hold any interest in one that puts all of it's focus into gameplay.

Happy this exists for the people who want it, but I probably won't be backing it unless we see something really interesting in the stretch goals or something similar.

Cleaned out a ton of harassing, off topic posts. Keep the conversation on topic.

Cleaned out a ton of harassing, off topic posts. Keep the conversation on topic.

Appreciate you ;)

It's not the "point n click" with tactial fights like Sunday Gold that I hoped for, but it's nice that they are trying to make it a big game!

The 4 player coop is nice.
This is not my kind of game, but will still keep an eye on it. I hope they will still integrate NPC interactions and dialogs somewhere. AV was such a pleasant surprise for all the RP opportunities there was for a "dungeon". xD

BTW, a CRPG was the lowest game genre I was expecting, because of the Owlcat games. Having two different partners doing the exact same kind of games that could compete against each other would definitely sour relationships.

owlcat has not current interest in doing another pf game according to them so no conflict

Honestly this is disapointing news. I was really hoping we would finally see a Tactical RPG based on the PF2E rules, the owlcat games are annoying due to the real-time and 1E rules (I don't like them) and the 2E rules are so perfect for a videogame.

Good luck to everyone involved in this project but I definitely won't be following this knowing it's an ARPG.

the owlcat ones have been turned based for a few years now

Well I for one am excited to see this. While I do like the owlcat games I really don’t have the time to always play. It’s hard enough to carve out free time several times a month for our regular game as is, but it’s almost always easier for me to find time for less time involved games like this. Plus anything that helps get the pathfinder brand out there is a good thing. It’s kinda exhausting constantly telling non gamer folks that the game their co workers play is “kinda D&D”. Getting people to associate fantasy adventure with “Pathfinder” will also help those who are new to the hobby discover the TTRPG as well.

But I think my real hope, is that this is just a great game. I play games like this to enjoy myself and relax. I only have so much time for leisure between work, family and other commitments. I backed both owlcat games on kickstarter for many of the same reasons that I just listed, not knowing if they would be good games either. I was pleasantly surprised with their quality and fun, so I will keep the same hope and optimism for BKOM and will definitely back this.

Just one persons opinion and your mileage will vary. However with some of the negative feedback I’m seeing, I hope some folks can see this as a good thing. And if it’s not your thing, then just don’t worry about it. No one is forcing you to buy it. Play games to have fun, and hope that the next game partnership is more to your tastes.

Hope everyone out there has a great day and keeps playing games that make you happy.

Meh. ARPG seems like a terrible fit... was hoping for a proper CRPG using 2E rules. Owlcat, come baaaaack :)

Owlcat are still very much our partners. They're still rolling out the content of their second season of DLC for Wrath of the Righteous. They've been focused on their new Warhammer game for some time, but who knows what they might develop after that.

Our partnership with BKOM (and other, as-yet unannounced digital gaming partners, for that matter) doesn't preclude Owlcat from doing anything else with the brand. No one has an exclusive deal to produce Pathfinder or Starfinder games or other licensed material.

This really is a great disappointment to me. I actually think that PF2e has a great balance as well as interesting balance to make a perfect video game system. I think the codified social rules can also help a great deal. Honestly, a game similar to Divinity: Original Sins 2 or Baldur’s Gate 3 with PF2e’s ruleset would be just what I’m looking for. I’m really hoping that Larian Studios or developers with a similar style can be brought in for a project. That said, I’m not a fan of Diablo-style games, so this does not appeal to me at all.

Not something I will play but good luck with it.

nCore wrote:

Meh. ARPG seems like a terrible fit... was hoping for a proper CRPG using 2E rules. Owlcat, come baaaaack :)

Owlcat are still very much our partners. They're still rolling out the content of their second season of DLC for Wrath of the Righteous. They've been focused on their new Warhammer game for some time, but who knows what they might develop after that.

Our partnership with BKOM (and other, as-yet unannounced digital gaming partners, for that matter) doesn't preclude Owlcat from doing anything else with the brand. No one has an exclusive deal to produce Pathfinder or Starfinder games or other licensed material.

Music to my ears that Owlcat can still produce more, and if they also produce Starfinder CRPG's as well as Pathfinder CRPG's I'll probably lose my sh** as Stasrfinder CRPG's need to happen lol

I am curious though, why an ARPG? of all the genres?

Cause that's what Bkom makes

Yeah, I wish people would realize this is a project BKOM conceived and pitched to Paizo, rather than an order from Paizo to BKOM. BKOM wanted to make an ARPG, and so that's why they made it that way.

Nothing is preventing Owlcat, or any other potential Paizo partners from making whatever genre of game they want to make. You're not getting an ARPG instead of a CRPG. You're getting an ARPG instead of literally nothing.

I am actually super excited for this ARPG, and i love that its the iconics. As a fan of the comics its super exciting to get to play as them. Ideally they will be fleshed out with their personalities. Hope they add more then Ezran, Kyra, Harsk, and Amiri, as putting Kyra in there but not Merisiel feels wrong. ALso thats 3 human characters, would LOVE to see Fumbus or Lini would be nice.

My disappointment isn't in that it's an ARPG, it's more that this looks to be a multiplayer-only game.

My disappointment isn't in that it's an ARPG, it's more that this looks to be a multiplayer-only game.

It says "up to four players", I highly, HIGHLY doubt the game would be multiplayer only, if anything the other three characters will be NPC controlled.

Yeah, I wish people would realize this is a project BKOM conceived and pitched to Paizo, rather than an order from Paizo to BKOM. BKOM wanted to make an ARPG, and so that's why they made it that way.

Nothing is preventing Owlcat, or any other potential Paizo partners from making whatever genre of game they want to make. You're not getting an ARPG instead of a CRPG. You're getting an ARPG instead of literally nothing.

Your missing the point, Whether or not BKOM conceived and pitched this project, Paizo still had to give it the green light and they wouldn't have done that unless they thought an ARPG was beneficial to the brand in some way and that is something a brand manager would 100% know.

Also when it comes to "pitching" ideas, keep in mind that is not a one-way process, anyone can pitch an idea, even Paizo. It isn't just Paizo sat in the corner waiting for Computer game developers to come along and throw them a bone, which they have to accept because it's the only bone on the table.

So I am genuinely interested in their reasoning behind that and that isn't something you can answer, only them as they are the only ones who know.

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

DonKeebals wrote:

Holler when you and Owlcat make another CRPG

Not gonna happen. Word is that Owlcat was not interested in doing PF2 games and that is why Paizo had to find a new partner and Owlcat are now making, of all things, Warhammer games.

A little off topic but the WH game looks good.

And I really like the idea of a Hack'n'Slash PF Game, I just don't like that it is based off an AP...

That sounds like a console thing, it's difficult to imagine for a PC game. And it sounds even worse to me than playing over the internet.

There are literally a ton of PC games with this feature. My wife and I play this way all of the time.

Oooh I saw mentioning of a Starfinder game. Would love that setting as a crpg or something. At the moment I don’t play in it because my group has no interest. But would like to experience it sometime.

Ezekieru wrote:

Yeah, I wish people would realize this is a project BKOM conceived and pitched to Paizo, rather than an order from Paizo to BKOM. BKOM wanted to make an ARPG, and so that's why they made it that way.

Nothing is preventing Owlcat, or any other potential Paizo partners from making whatever genre of game they want to make. You're not getting an ARPG instead of a CRPG. You're getting an ARPG instead of literally nothing.

Your missing the point, Whether or not BKOM conceived and pitched this project, Paizo still had to give it the green light and they wouldn't have done that unless they thought an ARPG was beneficial to the brand in some way and that is something a brand manager would 100% know.

Also when it comes to "pitching" ideas, keep in mind that is not a one-way process, anyone can pitch an idea, even Paizo. It isn't just Paizo sat in the corner waiting for Computer game developers to come along and throw them a bone, which they have to accept because it's the only bone on the table.

So I am genuinely interested in their reasoning behind that and that isn't something you can answer, only them as they are the only ones who know.

You are only thinking of the mechanical aspects there, Paizo might be considering the setting aspects as well in those decisions.

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

well if this turns out to just be a mobile quality arpg cash grab it could hurt the brand.

it just seems like a poor choice
most pf2 players want you know a pf2 game
and people that dont play pf2 are less likely want the game in general due to the glut of arpgs and them not caring about the brand

well if this turns out to just be a mobile quality arpg cash grab it could hurt the brand.

And if it turned out to be a “mobile quality crpg” that’d be perfectly fine, gotcha.

it just seems like a poor choice

How is it a poor choice? Is Paizo never allowed to have video games made of their IPs unless they’re direct copies of the rules?

most pf2 players want you know a pf2 game

Golarion is much their IP as is the Pathfinder ruleset, and the two are intertwined at that.

and people that dont play pf2 are less likely want

People that don’t play P2 won’t be interested in a game that DOESN’T use P2 rules verbatim, how do you get to that?

the game in general due to the glut of arpgs

there’s no more “glut” of them then there is any other variety of game.

Y’all are literally making stuff up to whine.

them not caring about the brand

The success of the Owlcat games shows this is false.

hey i hope this game does not suck and you like it , but i dont know anyone in real life that did not go from exited to meh as soon as they found out that this was not an actual pf2 game .
we shall see and the success of the owlcat games is because they are, you know actually rpgs :)

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

A) I've already made the point as to why, multiple times.

B) Why are you responding to me? Am I asking YOU anything? Do I need to get the mod back again? I asked the BRAND MANAGER a question, not you. Do you work for Paizo, or BKOM or even in the industry, do you know anything of any relevance to what I am asking THEM? nope.

My question was for them, the people IN THE KNOW, the people in a position to provide an actual answer with basis in fact, not assumption, opinion or personal bias.

Rysky wrote:

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

A) I've already made the point as to why, multiple times.

B) Why are you responding to me? Am I asking YOU anything? Do I need to get the mod back again? I asked the BRAND MANAGER a question, not you. Do you work for Paizo, or BKOM or even in the industry, do you know anything of any relevance to what I am asking THEM? nope.

My question was for them, the people IN THE KNOW, the people in a position to provide an actual answer with basis in fact, not assumption, opinion or personal bias.

Then you should have pointed this out more clearly earlier.

"what are the brand managers thinking" isn't the same as "to the brand managers..."

NeoWolfen wrote:

Rysky wrote:

I’m interested in why you’re framing that as a bad thing.

A) I've already made the point as to why, multiple times.

B) Why are you responding to me? Am I asking YOU anything? Do I need to get the mod back again? I asked the BRAND MANAGER a question, not you. Do you work for Paizo, or BKOM or even in the industry, do you know anything of any relevance to what I am asking THEM? nope.

My question was for them, the people IN THE KNOW, the people in a position to provide an actual answer with basis in fact, not assumption, opinion or personal bias.

Then you should have pointed this out more clearly earlier.

"what are the brand managers thinking" isn't the same as "to the brand managers..."

LOL, my dude I quoted the brand managers post directly with a reply TO him and aimed the question based on what he had said ensuring he would get the question and notification of the post.

It was clearly aimed at him.

It could not have been MORE clear ;)

I am curious though, why an ARPG? of all the genres?

Because ARPGs are awesome, silly!

Just as Pathfinder can be novels or a card game or comics or plushes, it can be all sorts of genres of digital games as well. We're excited to take the brand into new, unexplored territory with this and other collaborations we have in the works, and that doesn't mean we'll never do a CRPG again. But we've released two of those, and our primary partner in that endeavor is currently involved in other projects. It's time to see what we can do in other areas of the gaming and pop culture landscape.

It's clear that fans want a Pathfinder Second Edition CRPG. We hear you. But we don't make computer games ourselves, and we're also not in the business of telling our trusted partners how to run their companies. In this case, BKOM came to us with a few game ideas, and we decided to partner with them to get those made because they looked like fun games that could embody Pathfinder in new ways, and not just a repetition of its current iterations.

I hope people enjoy them, and having played early builds and seen the process from behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure many will.

But I'd love for fans to give them a shot, instead of allowing their anticipation for a P2 CRPG to taint their impressions of this game. Let's not dismiss anything that isn't P2 CRPG as somehow preventing that P2 CRPG game from being made, because that's not how it works. We can have both, we're just only announcing one game at a time.

NeoWolfen wrote:

I am curious though, why an ARPG? of all the genres?

Because ARPGs are awesome, silly!

Just as Pathfinder can be novels or a card game or comics or plushes, it can be all sorts of genres of digital games as well. We're excited to take the brand into new, unexplored territory with this and other collaborations we have in the works, and that doesn't mean we'll never do a CRPG again. But we've released two of those, and our primary partner in that endeavor is currently involved in other projects. It's time to see what we can do in other areas of the gaming and pop culture landscape.

It's clear that fans want a Pathfinder Second Edition CRPG. We hear you. But we don't make computer games ourselves, and we're also not in the business of telling our trusted partners how to run their companies. In this case, BKOM came to us with a few game ideas, and we decided to partner with them to get those made because they looked like fun games that could embody Pathfinder in new ways, and not just a repetition of its current iterations.

I hope people enjoy them, and having played early builds and seen the process from behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure many will.

But I'd love for fans to give them a shot, instead of allowing their anticipation for a P2 CRPG to taint their impressions of this game. Let's not dismiss anything that isn't P2 CRPG as somehow preventing that P2 CRPG game from being made, because that's not how it works. We can have both, we're just only announcing one game at a time.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply Mark, thanks. I understand the desire to branch out, even if I don't agree with the direction. And contrary to what some may believe I do hope it succeeds, even if I doubt it will as I truly love the Pathfinder I.P, it did with the hobby what HAsbro failed to.

This game will have to bring something pretty unique to the table however to pique to interest or notice of ARPG fans away from the likes of the already established like Diablo of PoE and the Kickstarter video really didn't show that (IMO).

ARPG's being awesome, is fairly subjective, I mean Pizzas awesome to some, but there is no Pathfinder Pizza (yet lol), but I hope your right for the brands sake.

I hope BKOM knocks it out of the park! I can't fault them for lacking ambition going into this.