Class Is in Session! Strength of Thousands Player’s Guide

So excited for this! And love the art

This is really exciting! I love the archetype decision too!

That “Sponsored by a Stranger” Background has me feeling… contemplative.

Excited for this AP!

Really want to play this!

Great to directly get the guide by clicking the link. Much appreciated.

Now to see how my Magaambyan Attendant Spell Blending Wizard concept can come to life for this AP.

Great to directly get the guide by clicking the link. Much appreciated.

Now to see how my Magaambyan Attendant Spell Blending Wizard concept can come to life for this AP.

Yes, no more needing an account to access the Player's Guides. Please share them widely.

Thank you!!!

Very promising, though I'm a bit surprised by the lack of a Sponsored by an Organization. I can easily see the Pathfinder Society, Aspic Consortium, and perhaps even the Technic League sponsoring people.

Looks really fun. One of these days I will have time to play on of the 2nd Ed APs

I am looking forward to this one being the next AP I want to run.

What are the thoughts on the way that SoT presents the free archetype? I found a bit restrictive . For example , if my goal is to become a wizard halcyon speaker , why i have to choose the druid archetype on the second level ?

What are the thoughts on the way that SoT presents the free archetype? I found a bit restrictive . For example , if my goal is to become a wizard halcyon speaker , why i have to choose the druid archetype on the second level ?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

kayman wrote:

What are the thoughts on the way that SoT presents the free archetype? I found a bit restrictive . For example , if my goal is to become a wizard halcyon speaker , why i have to choose the druid archetype on the second level ?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

But this would be bad for my PC in all aspects ... as a Halcyon speaker I already gain a lot of feats that are very similar to the druid archtype feats. And i will loose wizard feats ...

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1115

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=702

Super excited for this AP!

The logical progression would be ...

Wizard(or druid) - Class Feats .

Free Archetype - Magaambya attendant, Mark Familiar , Halcyon Speaker

Why should i want to take a druid or wizard dedication from a build or narrative perpective?

I'm talking with my players about opening up the Free Archetype. It seems clear that everyone should have access to either Arcane or Primal casting, but past that I don't see why it should be so restrictive.

Here's the two options we're looking at:

1. If you have Arcane or Primal casting from your base class, take whatever you want for your FA. Otherwise you must take a FA which grants Arcane or Primal (Druid, Sorc, Witch, Wizard)

2. You must have access to an Arcane or Primal Cantrip by Level 2, and I don't care where it's from (innate Ancestry, base class, feat, or FA). Take whatever you want for FA.

We've been playing together for a long time, so I'm not worried about power-creep. Can anyone see any problems with this? Is there some special thing about Druid and Wizard Archetypes that I'm missing?

Michelle A.J. wrote:

kayman wrote:

What are the thoughts on the way that SoT presents the free archetype? I found it a bit restrictive. For example, if my goal is to become a wizard halcyon speaker, why do I have to choose the druid archetype on the second level?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at the second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

But this would be bad for my PC in all aspects ... as a Halcyon speaker I already gain a lot of feats that are very similar to the druid archetype feats. And I will lose wizard feats ...

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1115

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=702

Halycon Speaker is only available at the 6th level *at the earliest*. I have a feeling that the prereqs will only be met later in the storyline.

Also, the feats look similar but function vastly differently. Druid spells for instance *don't* get added to your spellbook and can get heightened as per normal. Halcyon spells *do* get added to your spellbook and have heightening restrictions on them.

The way I see it, the main reason a wizard would be interested in the Magaambya would be the connection between Arcane and Primal magic. So I can easily see them dipping their toe into the more Primal magics.

At the same time, when I run SoT, I'll probably expand it to the Arcane/Primal Witch and perhaps the Sorc as well.

kayman wrote:

Michelle A.J. wrote:

kayman wrote:

What are the thoughts on the way that SoT presents the free archetype? I found it a bit restrictive. For example, if my goal is to become a wizard halcyon speaker, why do I have to choose the druid archetype on the second level?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at the second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

But this would be bad for my PC in all aspects ... as a Halcyon speaker I already gain a lot of feats that are very similar to the druid archetype feats. And I will lose wizard feats ...

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1115

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=702

Halycon Speaker is only available at the 6th level *at the earliest*. I have a feeling that the prereqs will only be met later in the storyline.

Also, the feats look similar but function vastly differently. Druid spells for instance *don't* get added to your spellbook and can get heightened as per normal. Halcyon spells *do* get added to your spellbook and have heightening restrictions on them.

The way I see it, the main reason a wizard would be interested in the Magaambya would be the connection between Arcane and Primal magic. So I can easily see them dipping their toe into the more Primal magics.

At the same time, when I run SoT, I'll probably expand it to the Arcane/Primal Witch and perhaps the Sorc as well.

Valid point . I wil run Sot too. I am finishing AV(GM) and i think I will just use the free archetype rule as it is presented in the GMG ... I will only try to influence my players to choose some class or archetype that involves magic.

I'm talking with my players about opening up the Free Archetype. It seems clear that everyone should have access to either Arcane or Primal casting, but past that I don't see why it should be so restrictive.

Here's the two options we're looking at:

1. If you have Arcane or Primal casting from your base class, take whatever you want for your FA. Otherwise, you must take a FA which grants Arcane or Primal (Druid, Sorc, Witch, Wizard)

2. You must have access to an Arcane or Primal Cantrip by Level 2, and I don't care where it's from (innate Ancestry, base class, feat, or FA). Take whatever you want for FA.

We've been playing together for a long time, so I'm not worried about power-creep. Can anyone see any problems with this? Is there some special thing about Druid and Wizard Archetypes that I'm missing?

1. Opening it up to non-mystical archetypes is (IMO) begging for power creep and takes away from the clear mystical focus for this AP.

2. Biggest thing about the Druid and Wizard Archetypes that I can see is that they are prepared casters, which fits the theme of studying and learning magic. Another reason I'd probably expand it to witches.

Looks pretty awesome!

I think I will open up the free archetype to anything that gives the Primal or Arcane spell list. If a player starts with one of those as their primary class they can take anything they meet the prereqs for.

Looks amazing and wonderful. Will there be things to do for solely martial classes or will spellcasting classes be heavily encouraged?

Also, I'm really hoping we get an Adventure Path centered on Geb, Nex, and Holomog one day soon. :D

Kinda wanted to mention to those wondering why it's just Primal and Arcane rather than any of the others.

Reading the early blurb section, it seems like it's thematic. Magaambya is quite a spirital place. you get masks of your spirit animal, and they consider personality traits as being more important than pure knowledge.

There's also a section in the Halcyon Speaker which mentions about while the founder's beliefs are that all magic is magic, Magaabya has developed a culture of Primal meets Arcane

So it seems like the core experience of this Adventure Path is Primal meets Arcane for it's location culture, so that's why we are limited to those two.

If your GM is fine with opening up extra options for the free archetype, then fine. but it might be worth either getting the Mwangi Expanse book, or waiting until the actual book is in your GMs hands before making that call

Looks amazing and wonderful. Will there be things to do for solely martial classes or will spellcasting classes be heavily encouraged?

Also, I'm really hoping we get an Adventure Path centered on Geb, Nex, and Holomog one day soon. :D

I think the Classes section of the Player's Guide answers's your questions about martial classes and spell casting, yes? It is both.

Kinda wanted to mention to those wondering why it's just Primal and Arcane rather than any of the others.

Reading the early blurb section, it seems like it's thematic. Magaambya is quite a spirital place. you get masks of your spirit animal, and they consider personality traits as being more important than pure knowledge.

There's also a section in the Halcyon Speaker which mentions about while the founder's beliefs are that all magic is magic, Magaabya has developed a culture of Primal meets Arcane

So it seems like the core experience of this Adventure Path is Primal meets Arcane for it's location culture, so that's why we are limited to those two.

If your GM is fine with opening up extra options for the free archetype, then fine. but it might be worth either getting the Mwangi Expanse book, or waiting until the actual book is in your GMs hands before making that call

Yes. Rule One is do what your group thinks is fun, but according to Lost Omens lore as I understand it, The Magaambya is a school for wizards and druids (prepared casters), specifically.

Tea4Goblins wrote:

kayman wrote:

Michelle A.J. wrote:

kayman wrote:

What are the thoughts on the way that SoT presents the free archetype? I found it a bit restrictive. For example, if my goal is to become a wizard halcyon speaker, why do I have to choose the druid archetype on the second level?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at the second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

But this would be bad for my PC in all aspects ... as a Halcyon speaker I already gain a lot of feats that are very similar to the druid archetype feats. And I will lose wizard feats ...

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1115

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=702

Halycon Speaker is only available at the 6th level *at the earliest*. I have a feeling that the prereqs will only be met later in the storyline.

Also, the feats look similar but function vastly differently. Druid spells for instance *don't* get added to your spellbook and can get heightened as per normal. Halcyon spells *do* get added to your spellbook and have heightening restrictions on them.

The way I see it, the main reason a wizard would be interested in the Magaambya would be the connection between Arcane and Primal magic. So I can easily see them dipping their toe into the more Primal magics.

At the same time, when I run SoT, I'll probably expand it to the Arcane/Primal Witch and perhaps the Sorc as well.

Valid point . I wil run Sot too. I am finishing AV(GM) and i think I will just use the free archetype rule as it is presented in the GMG ... I will only try to influence my players to choose some class or archetype that involves magic.

Bummer.. I was planning on playing an eldritch trickster rogue, but the specific implementation of "Free archetype" unfortunately makes that kind of a bad choice since the extra feats can only be spent on the one that the free archetype rule grants you at 2nd. Guess I'll have to be a Mastermind instead.

kayman wrote:

Tea4Goblins wrote:

kayman wrote:

Michelle A.J. wrote:

kayman wrote:

What are the thoughts on the way that SoT presents the free archetype? I found it a bit restrictive. For example, if my goal is to become a wizard halcyon speaker, why do I have to choose the druid archetype on the second level?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at the second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

But this would be bad for my PC in all aspects ... as a Halcyon speaker I already gain a lot of feats that are very similar to the druid archetype feats. And I will lose wizard feats ...

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1115

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=702

Halycon Speaker is only available at the 6th level *at the earliest*. I have a feeling that the prereqs will only be met later in the storyline.

Also, the feats look similar but function vastly differently. Druid spells for instance *don't* get added to your spellbook and can get heightened as per normal. Halcyon spells *do* get added to your spellbook and have heightening restrictions on them.

The way I see it, the main reason a wizard would be interested in the Magaambya would be the connection between Arcane and Primal magic. So I can easily see them dipping their toe into the more Primal magics.

At the same time, when I run SoT, I'll probably expand it to the Arcane/Primal Witch and perhaps the Sorc as well.

Valid point . I wil run Sot too. I am finishing AV(GM) and i think I will just use the free archetype rule as it is presented in the GMG ... I will only try to influence my players to choose some class or archetype that involves magic.

** spoiler omitted **...

THat explains a lot ... Thanks .

Bummer.. I was planning on playing an eldritch trickster rogue, but the specific implementation of "Free archetype" unfortunately makes that kind of a bad choice since the extra feats can only be spent on the one that the free archetype rule grants you at 2nd. Guess I'll have to be a Mastermind instead.

Why not just pick up a sorcerer or Witch MC feat from the racket? Or even something off the wall like Oracle. You just have to pick a caster MC dedication; the racket isn't fussy about which one.

Too bad they didn't go with the idea of the Magaambya opening a department for complete non-spellcasters. Especially given that they're on the same continent with Alkenstar and the Mana Wastes . . . .

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

But this would be bad for my PC in all aspects ... as a Halcyon speaker I already gain a lot of feats that are very similar to the druid archtype feats. And i will loose wizard feats ...

I do not think you lose wizard feats. Rather you gain druid feats. With the FREE archetype, you will receive an EXTRA feat for that class.

Similarly I do not see how this prevents arcane trickster (Unless the redundancy of archetypes is a personal distaste?). Also there are 7 wizard feats that are also druid feats, while they may not be the arcane trickster's first choice, there are still useful feats. Personally I like the trickster idea of choosing occult spells for the enchantment options. Guards, smuards (cast sleep, command or charm.

kayman wrote:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way it works, you can still take the halcyon speaker dedication at second level in place of your wizard feat. The free druid archetype is going to be in addition to your regular feat choices.

But this would be bad for my PC in all aspects ... as a Halcyon speaker I already gain a lot of feats that are very similar to the druid archtype feats. And i will loose wizard feats ...

I do not think you lose wizard feats. Rather you gain druid feats. With the FREE archetype, you will receive an EXTRA feat for that class.

Similarly I do not see how this prevents arcane trickster (Unless the redundancy of archetypes is a personal distaste?). Also there are 7 wizard feats that are also druid feats, while they may not be the arcane trickster's first choice, there are still useful feats. Personally I like the trickster idea of choosing occult spells for the enchantment options. Guards, smuards (cast sleep, command or charm.

I think they wanted to use the free archetype feats for the Initiate feats, but will need to use their normal class feats instead.

YAY for this!! A really friggin great idea for a campaign. I wish I had a 14 day week to keep up with all the stuff paizo puts out and play everything xD

I think the main tweak I would consider to the free archetype would be to allow Magaambyan Attendant as an option for Druid or Wizard PCs, which would give everyone two options for their free archetype. The additional feats granted at later even levels would then include all feats with Magaambyan Attendant Dedication as a prerequisite, such as Halcyon Speaker Dedication and its associated feats. But I guess I will need to see the first volume of the AP to see how much tweaking would be needed in this case. It is my understanding that the GM should be able to assume that all PCs have access to the spellcasting granted by Druid Dedication or Wizard Dedication at a minimum.

I plan to open things up a little bit, making the free archetype any arcane or primal casting class, or any archetype that is focused on the Magaambya (Halcyon Speaker, Magaambyan Attendant, or Magic Warrior)

I'm going to allow the Magaambya archetypes as an option as well.

Content Warning
While Pathfinder Adventure Path #169: Kindled Magic contains typical Pathfinder action and adventure, it also presents, in Chapter 3, a few stark depictions of animal cruelty and abuse. Before you begin, understand that consent from everyone at the table, including the players and the Game Master, is vital to a safe and fun play experience. You should talk with your players before beginning the adventure and modify descriptions or scenarios as appropriate.

Awesome!!!

There were a couple surprises in this one.

One I was actually expecting them to get the free first archetype feat at first level so the martial characters would have cantrips at level 1. For a second I almost balked, although it occurred to me that the potential was there and that as training starts at the school, it might not be an assumption that everyone can cast even cantrips at the start.

Next, I wasn't too surprised that there were limitations on what the archetype could be used for (was expecting it to have to be spellcasting multiclass archetype). What was surprising was that it was only two options, and that if you chose either the class Wizard or Druid you had no choice for your free archetype, it was predetermined.

I'm fine with the context that the school is for Wizards and Druids and having a quick way to tie everyone to at least one of these classes is great. However, I'd suggest that if you start as either a Wizard or Druid, I'd think it would be appropriate to open up the archetype options some. Wizards would add Primal Witch or Primal Sorcerer options, and Druids would add Arcane Witches or Arcane Sorcerers as options. If you pick any other class you have two choices, it really seems like if you choose Wizard or Druid they should be able to make it so you still have a choice you can make. (for instance, at present, if you play a wizard, you are obligated to take a multiclass archetype with a anathema in it that would potentially be unrelated to your original character concept) Even with expanded options, it could encourage taking of just Wizard and Druid multiclass, and if there is actually a reason/concern with spontaneous casting, perhaps remove the sorcerer options, but will have to see the AP to see if there are some clearer reasons why.

Still, after reading the Players Guide, the AP does sound exiting.

Surprising about the content warning. I suspect that content in question contributes towards building the atmosphere of needing to overcome the adversary, so I doubt it would create any negative situation for me. However, it seems responsible to point out its presence.

Wizard (and only Wizard), which is supposed to be one of the two classes the Academy favors, being the only Class without a choice in getting anathema just rubs me the wrong way.

I would actually prefer not taking the Free Archetype at all for my Wizard ... but taking it is required.

I never thought I would see the day when I had to nicely ask my GM for the option of having a less powerful PC.

Do players pick their own class/alignment here or is their some kind of Sorting Hat?

HP references aside, is their going to be a House system baked into the AP, or will I have to shoehorn that in myself?

There are groupings called branches, but this is a college/university setting, so their not really like English boarding school houses, other than being a group you identify with.

Your branch is a major you choose based on your interests and values, not something you get arbitrarily assigned to by a rude magical item.

Have to agree with most of the postings here about the Wiz or Druid as being the only available multiclass options for characters given as free archetypes. While I'm sure the story of the AP will lean very heavy into those classes, they being the best example of classes that learn their casting from others, Druid is very restrictive and perhaps should not be the only option available to Wizards.

I can understand, of course, why a school, which has a function in teaching, wouldn't necessarily be a great fit for spell casters that are not taught their magic (Witches, Sorcerers), and also why a school that specializes in Arcane and Primal might not be a great fit for Divine and Occult casters (Cleric and Bard) as examples of multiclass options. The school would, presumably, have some kind of requirements of it's students to learn at least some of the types of magic it specializes in.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem too difficult to say, perhaps, that there is a recent and new push to include Occult courses and thus make Bard an option for the free multiclass feats. Bards attending a school or university to learn magic is a staple in fantasy after all.

I would love to hear a little bit about the design decision as to why those two multiclass options are the only ones available for the free archetype feats. Hopefully the AP will talk about that a little bit.

Otherwise, this AP looks to be shaping up to be very interesting. I'm very enamored of Mwangi. Hopefully this will be only one of many AP's that take place there.

I would love to hear a little bit about the design decision as to why those two multiclass options are the only ones available for the free archetype feats. Hopefully the AP will talk about that a little bit.

The Magaambya has always been about Druidism and Wizardry and the blending of the two, it makes thematic sense why it would focus on those two.

Good discussion all around. I think I've been swayed that Wizard and Druid are the right choices for FA. The Magaambya specific ones would contradict the narrative of the AP, and spontaneous casting doesn't fit the theme as well.

But there does seem to be a real issue with Druid Orders/Anathemas. So here's the homebrew I'm going to make available in my game:

--Druid Order--

----Magaambya

Your connection to nature comes from dedicated study at The Magaambya and the strength of the thousands of Druids who came before you. You are trained in Society. You gain a 1st-level druid feat with the Metamagic trait. You do not gain a focus spell or focus pool. Instead you are able to gain feats from any druid order, but they always count as 1 level higher than normal. Actively working against the interests of the Magaambya or harming its reputation is anathema to your order. (This does not include accidents or misunderstandings, as long as you work to correct them.)

Nice player's guide. Definitely less spoilers than the AoA one.

I could see allowing bard as the free dedication, given both Celtic bards' and African griots'/djelis' role as lore-keepers and advisors. If I did that, I'd probably limit the dedication to either the enigma or polymath muses to emphasize the scholarly side, though.

I could see allowing bard as the free dedication, given both Celtic bards' and African griots'/djelis' role as lore-keepers and advisors. If I did that, I'd probably limit the dedication to either the enigma or polymath muses to emphasize the scholarly side, though.

I think the snarl is that they want either an arcane or primal caster.

Considering the emphasis on learning magic (via study) and respect for nature at Magaambya, restricting the free archetype to either Druid Dedication or Wizard Dedication makes sense thematically. The restriction on the extra free archetype feats to only be used for archetype feats in the one dedication chosen by that character is probably in place for two reasons:

1) Thematic. Effectively, the free archetype becomes your "major field of study" at Magaambya (as opposed to your class, which remains the central character identity it is for those not studying at Magaambya). Magaambya isn't a place where you learn your profession (Bachelor's Degree/Trade School), but rather where you go for advanced knowledge (Master's Degree and/or Ph. D.).

2) Balance. Unrestricted use of free archetypes, as others have mentioned, can be cherry-picked to gain the "best" options and boost the PCs' effectiveness noticeably. IMO, not including Magaambyan Attendant, Magic Warrior, and Halcyon Speaker Dedications as choices for the free archetype feats has a minor thematic reason (they are associated with Magaambya, but not formally taught as part of Magaambya's curriculum) but is more of a way to prevent players from focusing on just the Basic/Expert/Master Spellcasting and Breadth feats and using the 5 other free feats as a way (with their regular class feats) to gain all of the feats associated with the Halcyon Speaker Dedication and selected feats associated with either the Magaambyan Attendant or Magic Warrior Dedications.

Having a Magaambyan wizard locked into the druid anathema (because they are stuck with the Druid Dedication for their free archetype feats) is probably less restrictive than it may seem.

General druid anathema: Using metal armor or shields; despoiling natural places; teaching the Druidic language to non-druids (or those with the Druid Dedication).

Wizards normally wouldn't be wearing metal armor or using metal shields. Those studying at Magaambya probably wouldn't start clear-cutting, strip-mining, or otherwise causing issues. Not teaching Druidic is pretty easy.

Order anathema:
- Animal (Committing wanton cruelty to animals or killing animals unnecessarily is anathema to your order. [This doesn’t prevent you from defending yourself against animals or killing them cleanly for food.])
- Leaf (Committing wanton cruelty to plants or killing plants unnecessarily is anathema to your order. [This doesn’t prevent you from defending yourself against plants or harvesting them when necessary for survival.])
- Storm (Polluting the air or allowing those who cause major air pollution or climate shifts to go unpunished is anathema to your order. [This doesn’t force you to take action against merely potential harm to the environment or to sacrifice yourself against an obviously superior foe.])
- Wild (Becoming fully domesticated by the temptations of civilization is anathema to your order. [This doesn’t prevent you from buying and using processed goods or staying in a city for an adventure, but you can never come to rely on these conveniences or truly call such a place your permanent home.])

The only one that might cause some minor difficulties would be the Wild Order anathema. Such characters would probably spend some time (either leaving the Magaambya grounds at night or periodically spending a few days in the jungle) outside instead of staying within Magaambya.