What happened day 1? People defending the doxxing by bringing up that it isn't a big deal because Ghost used his real name on a society character?

I wouldn't read that intention into the warning. The PFS character maker has (had?) a glitch where it will put your name in as the default, and it sometimes gets changed back as you work on your character (Its been a while but i especially remember the avatar selection doing that)

-hey you might want to check that..- Just means hey you might want to check that.

Yoshua wrote:

What happened day 1? People defending the doxxing by bringing up that it isn't a big deal because Ghost used his real name on a society character?

I wouldn't read that intention into the warning. The PFS character maker has (had?) a glitch where it will put your name in as the default, and it sometimes gets changed back as you work on your character (Its been a while but i especially remember the avatar selection doing that)

-hey you might want to check that..- Just means hey you might want to check that.

Maybe, but since the post at least one person has used it as an example as to why it isn't a big deal and that person never would have known if it wasn't linked.

And the person being called out was definitely not ok with it being called out on the public forum so I err on the side of the person being outted at that point. PM's are good for sensitive information.

Yoshua wrote:

Seriously, every community member should be inflamed that a Paizo employee with access to our personal and financial information has done this and doubled down.

After the implied death threats made against Paizo employees in one of the very first threads on this? I'm very disinclined to care sadly.

So the justification is that two wrongs make a right? How very 2020 of you.

Unless it was the same poster who the president addressed (and you have verifiable proof of it), it has no bearing on what happened most recently in this thread. Additionally, call me old fashioned but I hold highly paid company executives to a higher standard than random internet pundits of indeterminate age. YMMV.

Apologies Ghost725, I wanted to get your attention and get the rest of you guys to understand how seriously we are taking this but I really didn't mean for you to feel unsafe. I've removed your name from my original post and I'll be cleaning up the thread a bit as well.

Apologies Ghost725, I wanted to get your attention and get the rest of you guys to understand how seriously we are taking this but I really didn't mean for you to feel unsafe. I've removed your name from my original post and I'll be cleaning up the thread a bit as well.

There is a large part of me that wants to tell You to go shove your apologies where the sun dont shine...

While I can appreciate removing my name...the damage was done...no putting the tooth paste back in the tube after you squeezed it out.

You singled me out and made it personnel..you exposed me to a risk I rather not have to deal with again but that's my demon to fight...

Never for a moment has any player on this board thought you didn't take this cluster F$@k serious...from going face to face with Ninja Division and working with archon to try to make this right.

We as you say, we are allowed to vent just need to play by the rules...and respect each other...and we try...we can be snippy but dam....i really want to ask why me? Or was I just an easy target cause I was vocal as of late.

I hope this never happens to anyone ever again...if this ends with me so someone in a worse position is protected from danger...fair trade...ill take that deal ever day..

No more soup box speeches from me...im all for getting back to what this is about...our dam minis.. and when are they going to get to us..

Ghost725, I don't know you but I've repeatedly posted in support of you FWIW... but he publicly apologized and corrected the mistake. Yes, you can't take the pee out of the proverbial pool but better late then never. I'm not saying that you have to accept the apology as that's entirely your personal choice but I'm not sure what you expect to achieve with the confrontational parts of the post above other than vent and apparently inevitably get reported.

I make a habit of not trying to tell the victim how to process. That being said that looks like an honest response to me and I am not entirely sure Jeff understands just how violating what he did was.

If Jeff is in Washington and Ghost is outside of Washington and anything bad were to happen to Ghost because of Jeff doxxing him then that could be considered a federal crime if done across state lines and the victim is negatively affected. Including just feeling Harassed or Intimidated.

Seriously, we all understood that Paizo is taking this situation with Ninja Division/Archon seriously, but just how serious is Paizo taking protecting our personal information?

It's been up for weeks.

For reference:
https://felonies.org/is-doxxing-illegal-personal-information-revealed-onlin e/

18 U.S. Code § 2261A.Stalking
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2261A

There are more references out there, it is better to just keep personal information that your customers give you private. I mean, seriously, this shouldn't be something we have to say as a customer.

This is not the first time Jeff has done this. He did it to me last year. To be honest at the time I didn’t really care but I did think it was offside a bit. He clearly took offence to my comment which I’ll admit was a bit snarky.

I think at the time I commented about him finally showing up to the forums.

And now we are here, with months of Paizo no show and a little dissatisfaction from customers and he handles it the same way.

Classic Paizo? Maybe...trending that way it seems.

Just spent 3 minutes looking at this, I knew I missed this the other day. I found the post, I now know Jinteki42's real name as well. From early 2019 this guys real name has been doxxed by the then COO.

This isn't a one off, how often does Jeff do this?

If one is being fair you might want to check legal definitions of harassment. In this case analyzing which posters unrelenting venting toes that particular line. As TOZ summarized the water is murkier than justifies simply complaining about 1 persons behavior. Having seen someone else dismiss the scrutiny as something Paizo's president signed up for by being a public figure. I can immediately tell that person has never been on the other end of an angry public mob. It sure doesn't feel like a 'powerful place' when the random letters and emails start to show-up. And yes I can sympathize for multiple reasons with maintaining anonymity. It turns out for example that stalking was a thing long before the internet was big. In the interest of further muddying the waters it is best to realize that large segments of the board know each other in real life. I don't even go to that many conventions, but I can name or have figured out from posts who a lot of posters are. A number of the posters I know in my case will sometimes post under their real names, and I have on occasion mentally started a post to someone by name.

If one is being fair you might want to check legal definitions of harassment. In this case analyzing which posters unrelenting venting toes that particular line. As TOZ summarized the water is murkier than justifies simply complaining about 1 persons behavior. Having seen someone else dismiss the scrutiny as something Paizo's president signed up for by being a public figure. I can immediately tell that person has never been on the other end of an angry public mob. It sure doesn't feel like a 'powerful place' when the random letters and emails start to show-up. And yes I can sympathize for multiple reasons with maintaining anonymity. It turns out for example that stalking was a thing long before the internet was big. In the interest of further muddying the waters it is best to realize that large segments of the board know each other in real life. I don't even go to that many conventions, but I can name or have figured out from posts who a lot of posters are. A number of the posters I know in my case will sometimes post under their real names, and I have on occasion mentally started a post to someone by name.

Fair enough.

Harassment:
noun
aggressive pressure or intimidation.

Legal Defintion:
Go to Link
harassment
(either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands

Dox:
verbINFORMAL
gerund or present participle: doxxing
search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the internet, typically with malicious intent.

So, with those definitions, by default, doxxing is harassment. It is a form of intimidation, not informative in the slightest.

Everything you list there is absolutely true. But it isn't being fair, it is creating an excuse for a behavior that is inexcusable.

There is a vast difference between making the mistake of calling someone by their name because you know them, and looking at someone's personal information that you have access to and intentionally using that information as a warning shot.

Edit to Add:
Again, my point in continuing this conversation is that I truly do not think Jeff understood the full ramifications of what he was doing. He may even have had good intentions. But my point is that it is an unacceptable behavior that needs to not be continued. And there is no one really above the President of the company (other than owners, ceo and stakeholders) and he should be setting the example.

I popped back and redacted Jinteki42 's name and I apologize if that caused them any stress or grief. As far as I can remember, those are the only times I've done this and they both occurred in this thread.

I honestly had no idea that this was such a big deal and I apologize for my behavior.

I popped back and redacted Jinteki42 's name and I apologize if that caused them any stress or grief. As far as I can remember, those are the only times I've done this and they both occurred in this thread.

I honestly had no idea that this was such a big deal and I apologize for my behavior.

I appreciate this, and want to let you know that I personally appreciate just how much you have committed to keeping us informed. Not just in this thread but I've noticed it across the board.

Even if I am vocal in calling this out I don't want you to take away from this that I dislike you in any way shape or form. I appreciate your efforts, but this is something that is important to me and there's no way I had it in me to let it slide once I saw it.

People are people and when we know better we do better. Thank you.

Appreciate that, Yoshua.

Referring to behavior as inexcusable is pretty inherently dehumanizing, and I prefer to keep the list of inexcusables pretty small given how easy humans find justifying anything once someone else has behaved inexcusably. As I implied, but will now state clearly Jeff made a mistake. Your description of my post as making excuses now indicates you have made a bigger mistake, very common but far more harmful in the longrun. You have already acknowledged the behavior as inexcusable and allowed that to color your interpretation of my post. You are posting to win instead of trying to understand. If the goal is victory the result is always conflict. People taking some time to try and figure out how a reasonable person may have acted badly, before busting out the fighting words is so much more important than anything else in this thread.

Referring to behavior as inexcusable is pretty inherently dehumanizing, and I prefer to keep the list of inexcusables pretty small given how easy humans find justifying anything once someone else has behaved inexcusably. As I implied, but will now state clearly Jeff made a mistake. Your description of my post as making excuses now indicates you have made a bigger mistake, very common but far more harmful in the longrun. You have already acknowledged the behavior as inexcusable and allowed that to color your interpretation of my post. You are posting to win instead of trying to understand. If the goal is victory the result is always conflict. People taking some time to try and figure out how a reasonable person may have acted badly, before busting out the fighting words is so much more important than anything else in this thread.

I took issue with your first lines. 'To be fair' and 'Legal Definitions'

Those are the 2 things I took issue with and the only 2 things.

I agreed with everything else you said, but if you start with To be Fair and Legal Definition then I see the rest of the statement as a justification.

When I said "Everything you list there is absolutely true. But it isn't being fair, it is creating an excuse for a behavior that is inexcusable." It is my interpretation of the justification following a call for understanding the legal definition. And I will never find harassment, or dehumanization excusable which is what Doxxing is. Even if unintended.

If you and I were having a real time conversation, then the back and forth would be A LOT more nuanced. But forums are a hard place to have that conversation.

I don't believe I made a mistake, but I can see how you can see it based on my response. I believe I responded to what I read. and I just re read it again and I stand by what I said, even if how I said it did not come across the way I intended.

Editted to Add:
Boils down to Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right - And when you identify that what you are doing is wrong? Fix it.

Jeff is doing this.

Second thing it boils down to is:
When We Know Better We Do Better

I also don't think our points are so far different, just a difference of opinion on accepting a reason behind it. I can accept there are reasons, but I cannot accept doubling down when it is pointed out that the actions are wrong.

I would concur we are not far off at all. I do think the effort to communicate with more nuance is absolutely worth it. If it helps the reason for the phrases in question was just to point out that if one was going to analyze one persons actions by judging them according to legal definitions others should have similar scrutiny.

Sorry folks but there's no new news for this week.

I popped back and redacted Jinteki42 's name and I apologize if that caused them any stress or grief. As far as I can remember, those are the only times I've done this and they both occurred in this thread.

I honestly had no idea that this was such a big deal and I apologize for my behavior.

Thank you for doing that, though for me personally I didn’t think it was necessary but I do appreciate it none the less.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and as this is a short week, there are no new updates. Be safe and enjoy yourselves responsibly.

Thanks Jeff. Did we ever get an answer about what happens with the encounter packs? Are we only getting one of each unique miniature?

As an aside, I ordered Zo!, and made a comment about being a KS backer, and got everything that they have produced up to now. It was very smooth.

Thanks Jeff. Did we ever get an answer about what happens with the encounter packs? Are we only getting one of each unique miniature?

As an aside, I ordered Zo!, and made a comment about being a KS backer, and got everything that they have produced up to now. It was very smooth.

From everything I can tell, the current answer is NO, but Archon hasn't said too much since Covid put such a stranglehold on international shipping so this could change.

I believe that when they made the molds for the waves of figures, they either didn't want to include the duplicates or they didn't understand that there were duplicates of some of the figs, so there was only one sculpt put on those molds instead of the correct number from the campaign. It could be that they might go back and add in the "extras" in a later wave if we get there but as things stand now, that seems like a long way off.

I'm glad to hear that your interactions with Archon have been positive and that you're enjoying the figs you've received so far. I wish there were more of them for you to enjoy though.

Sorry folks but no new news this week.

Is there any plan in place to compensate backers who ordered multiple copies of the same miniature model if Archon does not opt to fulfill for that?

Is there any plan in place to compensate backers who ordered multiple copies of the same miniature model if Archon does not opt to fulfill for that?

The only plan in place ATM is watch and see what Archon is able to fulfill. They are so early in the process of fulfilling the minis for this project, there's really no telling what they decide to do.

Another quiet week with no updates.

This thread is a journey. Not a good one, but a journey.

Another quiet week with no updates.

Hey Jeff, thanks for the update. I have a question. When you say another quiet week with no updates, does that mean that we are just waiting for Archon to say something, or are you actually contacting them each week? I'm not busting your chops, I'm honestly curious about the communication logistic of this. We all know Ninja doesn't ever say anything, but curious if Archon is saying anything to anyone. It's been a long road, and I expect at some point it will be resolved. thanks for checking in each week, happy friday!

Jeff Alvarez wrote:

Another quiet week with no updates.

Hey Jeff, thanks for the update. I have a question. When you say another quiet week with no updates, does that mean that we are just waiting for Archon to say something, or are you actually contacting them each week? I'm not busting your chops, I'm honestly curious about the communication logistic of this. We all know Ninja doesn't ever say anything, but curious if Archon is saying anything to anyone. It's been a long road, and I expect at some point it will be resolved. thanks for checking in each week, happy friday!

Yeah, no I get it. Yes, we reach out to Archon regularly but mostly our emails go unanswered. We are trying to schedule a call with them but that requires them to be communicative too, so we will see how that goes.

But honestly, we cannot MAKE them communicate with us or with you guys and there's really no carrot or stick either so it's a difficult position to be in.

No new updates for today and with the holidays starting up next week, I'm not expecting to hear from anyone until the new year. However if something comes up, I'll pop in and let you all know!

Happy Holidays!

Still nothing... still not buying Paizo.

Still nothing... still not buying Paizo.

Bro, the president of the company is literally here on this thread.

Hello, my husband and I ordered a lot of minis for this. We are based in the UK and still have received nothing. Will we ever receive our minis? We have been patiently waiting without complaint, just watching the threads and hoping we get some minis. Do we need to send any details over or email anyone for an update? Will our original order be processed or do we need to email for it? I can see that some people in the EU have received their minis. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you

Hello, my husband and I ordered a lot of minis for this. We are based in the UK and still have received nothing. Will we ever receive our minis? We have been patiently waiting without complaint, just watching the threads and hoping we get some minis. Do we need to send any details over or email anyone for an update? Will our original order be processed or do we need to email for it? I can see that some people in the EU have received their minis. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you

The most successful method I've seen is to purchase anything from Archon's site and be sure to include your backer information and exclaim that you'd like to get your Starfinder Masterclass Minis with your order. To date I think they've only gotten two 'waves' completed though. (I got 12 minis)

Sheila Madder wrote:

Hello, my husband and I ordered a lot of minis for this. We are based in the UK and still have received nothing. Will we ever receive our minis? We have been patiently waiting without complaint, just watching the threads and hoping we get some minis. Do we need to send any details over or email anyone for an update? Will our original order be processed or do we need to email for it? I can see that some people in the EU have received their minis. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you

The most successful method I've seen is to purchase anything from Archon's site and be sure to include your backer information and exclaim that you'd like to get your Starfinder Masterclass Minis with your order. To date I think they've only gotten two 'waves' completed though. (I got 12 minis)

Yeah, I have read that somewhere, but seeing as I have already spent almost £300 on minis that I have not yet received, I pretty much refuse to spend any more money until I receive my first order. I presume they aren't fulfilling orders unless you spend more money with them... :(

Yeah, I have read that somewhere, but seeing as I have already spent almost £300 on minis that I have not yet received, I pretty much refuse to spend any more money until I receive my first order. I presume they aren't fulfilling orders unless you spend more money with them... :(

Yes, although you haven't spent any money with "them." Ninja Division burned through the money and failed to deliver. Archon agreed to deliver the miniatures from the ND Kickstarter in exchange for getting the Starfinder license.

They've said they will send out waves at some point, but they haven't yet. I can understand them wanting to minimize shipping costs for miniatures they're producing at a loss but it doesn't help any of the backers feel any better about any of this. They have, however, sent everything they've produced for the Kickstarter to backers when they've ordered anything, even one miniature. But if you want to understandably avoid putting any more money into this, then the only option is to wait until they have finished the KS minis.

Happy Holidays, everyone! Unfortunately no new updates for this week.

Happy holidays to you too...

Happy New Year's Eve everyone! No new updates to report.