Mid-Season Faction Updates

One of the things that I love about these arguments is that it shows how passionate all we fans are about the storylines. I do see Faithless and Forgotten as a pivotal turning point for Dark Archive — the fact that it also had stuff for Liberty’s Edge, Grand Lodge, Silver Crusade and Scarab Sages was just gravy.

Good episodes have echoes for more than one faction, so that everyone can move their storylines forward. In great episodes, it is done so seamlessly that most of us can’t perceive the turning points until much later, in hindsight.

Yeah, we disagree because we all found something different in that series. That’s not a fault. That’s what makes it brilliant.

Tallow wrote:

Dark Archives has its own trilogy in season 7 and Zarta had a plot line peppered over 2 or 3 seasons... That's more than Liberty's Edge has ever had.

While Scarab Sages has been the most prevalent since season 5 started, you can't really say Dark Archives has been shafted more than a couple other factions who've only had one or two (if that many) scenarios total.

That trilogy wasn't Dark Archive. It did nothing to further the faction's overall goals and the thematic links only came about in the box text at the end of the final scenario. In fact, given what actually happens in the series, I'd say that trilogy is far, far, more thematically linked to Liberty's Edge. What with all the supporting anti-Chelish subversives, debunking House Thrune's propaganda, murdering law enforcement, and literally everything that happens in Part 3.

Also, Liberty's Edge had a major arc kicked off in 9-02.

9-02 has more to do with the Sovereign Court though.

9-02 has more to do with the Sovereign Court though.

...I'm sorry, I played it, I'm *really* not seeing it.

Did our GM miss something?

Did we miss something as players?

It was kind of loud in the convention area we were playing in, maybe I misheard something?

Feel free to drop the connection in spoilers, like I said, I've played it, if it's something obvious we probably would have figured it out, and if it's obscure then it's unlikely at best my character would have.

...the noble kid that Jabari knew...

Ye, oh Scarabs, sisters and brothers of Osirion! The Sages have taken you for granted long enough! Return now to the fold of our most honored Ruby Prince! Turn from the treacherous men, beasts, and horrors that make up the Sages and embrace the Forthbringer. For though thou may have forsaken him, he never forsook you!

Follow in the footsteps of The Risen and preserve the history of the eldest nation of Golarion!

#Osirion4Life!

Sid De Squid wrote:

Since Scarab Sages is getting retired I have a quick question, there's a vanity called "the Risen" for the Scarab Sages which calls out if we have that vanity we can never leave the faction... so after the retirement of the faction do the Scarabs with "the Risen" also get retired?

I recall we ran into the same concern when the Osirion faction turned into the Scarab Sages. I don't remember the exact resolution then (I can search for it a little later), but I recall the decision was pretty tame. I would not expect any issues with that vanity at the end of Season 9—particularly not a character's forced retirement.

The "exact resolution" was essentially along the lines of, "Oh, huh, umm.. well, Osirion *became* Scarab Sages, so that's okay, you're still that faction." That would not be the case any longer.

And that's just one of the problems with this. Personally, I'm delighted to see the Sages get the boot, because I have five Osirion characters who want their faction back. This doesn't help that though.

It would really make so much sense to take Swiftbrook's suggestion and create a new classification of "Inactive Factions". It will be known that no further material will be written for them, but story arcs can still be played out.

If necessary prevent any new characters from joining it. Certainly any rush of grandfathering will be less annoying than the Aasimar/Tiefling business. You could even potentially retroactively "inactivate" other factions that have been retired.

Certainly would make so much more sense for the Sages to lift the veil on the treacherous Zarta and take over the Archive. They've shown themselves much more competent and trustworthy to handle dangerous artifacts.

Oddly, I thought that the retired faction would be the Exchange, despite the faction’s huge popularity for its monetary benefits. It’s a faction that is fractured to its core, and has the biggest identity crisis. Qadira, with all of its vibrant complexity, is only represented in merchantile interests. Szarni, with its moral ambiguity and roguish ways... it’s not represented at all, really. I was expecting the faction to splinter in some epic fashion, leaving us with a new direction for the folks in the Exchange.

Honestly, as someone whose main character is Exchange (former Qadira), I would have loved that. I was really saddened by the Qadira retirement, and although I went Exchange to keep my rewards (and because nothing else fit), it's just a flavorless mess.

I'm sad to see the Sages go - I thought they were probably the most interesting of the new, non-geographic factions. Frustratingly, while I have several Scarab Sages characters, they're all very low-level, so I'm probably not going to get to play out the storyline with a Sages character like I'd hoped (having already passed up the chance to play Salvation of the Sages once in the expectation I'd save it for one of them) before the faction is drummed out. Sigh.

Salvation Boon (3rd Issue):

In addition: the Boon requires 10 Faction goals completed. Season 9 faction card has 9. So any character who joined Scarab Sages this season, could never complete this, even given the time crunch.

Oh. Oh, wow. Well... that's good to know, at least.

My only local venue closed a while back, and likely won't reopen until early next year. So I'm glad there's a little more time. I have to gain from five to nine levels before time's up, though... so I'm a little worried.

If you want to play online, I am pretty sure that they are options and people who would offer to GM for you.

See, making an "inactive factions" category would be fantastic, since then no one would have to figure out whether to have their free will loving, slightly suspicious of the decemvirate character should suddenly acquire a taste for ten boot, or decide that all the hellknights in the dark archive aren't dicks after all and free will isn't that great for no apparent reason.

Majuba wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Oh. Oh, wow. Well... that's good to know, at least.

** spoiler omitted **

MadScientistWorking wrote:

9-02 has more to do with the Sovereign Court though.

...I'm sorry, I played it, I'm *really* not seeing it.

Did our GM miss something?

Did we miss something as players?

It was kind of loud in the convention area we were playing in, maybe I misheard something?

Feel free to drop the connection in spoilers, like I said, I've played it, if it's something obvious we probably would have figured it out, and if it's obscure then it's unlikely at best my character would have.

Well, that scenario and what a certain someone did would certainly make Lady Glorianna react, but yeah not everything is obviously revealed to players.

** spoiler omitted **

I've played it and run it, and the diplomatic avenue isn't even allowed as an option. My Sovereign Court Ifrit Swashbuckler with a Noble Title told the Concordance's rep where he could stick his attempts at diplomacy because he decided to talk after sending his minions to steal and fight.

This was a scenario when I wish that PFS GMs had more leeway for good RP.

Salvation Boon (3rd Issue): (spoiler)

Oh wow. I'd missed that qualification on the boon, myself. My jeweled sage has way more than that so I never gave it a second thought.

Made a new character since we'll probably be running through all the Scarab Sage content again anyway, to get people caught up while we can.

That's a little... frustrating. Sigh.

Also, just so people can stop telling me about it: yes, I know about online play, and I'm looking into it - I have some concerns about whether my antique computer can meet the technical requirements for VTT (I can't presently afford the time for PbP). Since my store only runs twice a month when open, it's probably going to be a necessary part of my plan, probably along with some home game sessions (I can probably scratch together enough semi-willing people to make a table).

Thank you for the well-intentioned suggestions, though. ^_^

Also, just so people can stop telling me about it: yes, I know about online play, and I'm looking into it - I have some concerns about whether my antique computer can meet the technical requirements for VTT (I can't presently afford the time for PbP). Since my store only runs twice a month when open, it's probably going to be a necessary part of my plan, probably along with some home game sessions (I can probably scratch together enough semi-willing people to make a table).

Thank you for the well-intentioned suggestions, though. ^_^

My computer isn't exactly up-to-date (7-years old, which is considered antiquity in the modern cycle of the computer) and it can still hold fine for VTTs, unless I run too many softwares at the same time (discord, antivirus, etc. sometimes stretch the RAM thin). But I think having a good internet bandwith is even more important. Sometimes, VTT tables are hard to upload/load because of the amount of data, given my 20 megabytes/second and having to share it. 100 would rather be more comfortable.

Technical issues aside, VTTs are quite the different feel, and when I started, I relished the experience. Not starting without hiccups, but after time it goes smoothier !

I havent played most of it.

Challenge accepted

I can see the reasoning for retiring the Scarab Sages. They are ultimately a faction with two defining features, the Jewels (Which is now a closed story arc) and the fact they're the archeology and old stuff faction. But the society itself should have that latter mission and that should really be the identity of the Grand Lodge.

If the campaign staff handles it well and as I hope they will, they will be pushing that identity as the preservers of knowledge and history onto the GL where it should be, something that would be hard to do if the Sages remain. It's why in a certain set of old scenarios the GL shared the same faction missions as the Osirian faction.

I'm really getting burned on this as 5 characters of mine won't fit in any other faction. It's essentially character death for all of them. Why can't we lose one of the more boring factions?

One one hand, to me the Scarab Sages is the boring faction that I never connected with and I've tried to do cool stuff all my factions (my low wisdom character joined the silver crusade because if you lied to a Paladin, they might be merciful). But at the same time, I get this because my beloved Shadow lodge character has never been played since that faction change.

I can see the reasoning for retiring the Scarab Sages. They are ultimately a faction with two defining features, the Jewels (Which is now a closed story arc) and the fact they're the archeology and old stuff faction. But the society itself should have that latter mission and that should really be the identity of the Grand Lodge.

If the campaign staff handles it well and as I hope they will, they will be pushing that identity as the preservers of knowledge and history onto the GL where it should be, something that would be hard to do if the Sages remain. It's why in a certain set of old scenarios the GL shared the same faction missions as the Osirian faction.

Yeah, I think this is going to be both an opportunity and a challenge to the Glodge to develop an exciting identity for itself, instead of languishing as the "don't care" faction for people.

I must be one of the few to ever change my allegiance to the Grand Lodge. Given my devotion to protecting my allies, it eventually became obvious that it was the place for me.

I'm just running out of factions to even consider. I was getting bored with all my characters being either Silver Crusade or Liberty's Edge, so was choosing Grand Lodge as 'no faction' or Scarab Sages for appropriate characters. There are none of the other existing factions I would consider for my characters, and if the new faction insists on trying to balance good and evil, I will not consider them, either. I'll wait and see if the new faction is something to consider.

Corwin Icewolf wrote:

I'm really getting burned on this as 5 characters of mine won't fit in any other faction. It's essentially character death for all of them. Why can't we lose one of the more boring factions?

One one hand, to me the Scarab Sages is the boring faction that I never connected with and I've tried to do cool stuff all my factions (my low wisdom character joined the silver crusade because if you lied to a Paladin, they might be merciful). But at the same time, I get this because my beloved Shadow lodge character has never been played since that faction change.

To be fair, the Shadow Lodge retirement was handled... let's go with "badly." The goal people joined the Shadow Lodge for was never achieved (Sheila Heidmarch is still kicking around, for example.) Scarab Sages have had actual developments, changes, and successes. I'd much rather they stick around, but I can see reasons why Paizo would want to kill them off.

Put me down for hoping the Grand Lodge (or maybe the Concordance?) becomes the lodge for academics who aren't power-hungry or morally "flexible"

MadScientistWorking wrote:

9-02 has more to do with the Sovereign Court though.

...I'm sorry, I played it, I'm *really* not seeing it.

Did our GM miss something?

Did we miss something as players?

It was kind of loud in the convention area we were playing in, maybe I misheard something?

Feel free to drop the connection in spoilers, like I said, I've played it, if it's something obvious we probably would have figured it out, and if it's obscure then it's unlikely at best my character would have.

Two of the scenario referenced she is either present or a large plot point so she knows what Maldris is up to.

Also, I'd count bad writing as to making the sages boring. It's never really explained well that they are a

I can see the reasoning for retiring the Scarab Sages. They are ultimately a faction with two defining features, the Jewels (Which is now a closed story arc) and the fact they're the archeology and old stuff faction. But the society itself should have that latter mission and that should really be the identity of the Grand Lodge.

Well the grand lodge is an archaeological faction. It's just also got that stupid "blind obedience to the decemvirate" aspect which is why most people don't want to be grand lodge.

Is retirement of the 'Grand Lodge' too far-fetched of an idea?

EDIT: I mean, it seems to be the seat of a lot of distrust and discontent... could new leadership in the Society go 'Yeah, antiquated construct, we need something BETTER. We can BE BETTER!'?

Is retirement of the 'Grand Lodge' too far-fetched of an idea?

EDIT: I mean, it seems to be the seat of a lot of distrust and discontent... could new leadership in the Society go 'Yeah, antiquated construct, we need something BETTER. We can BE BETTER!'?

Nah, it shouldn't be retired, every organization will have its yes-men, sycophants, and mindless factotums. But there should definitely be an alternative, for those who care about holding their leaders accountable...

Which is basically what the shadow lodge was, but it got retired too, as some people have been saying. It was from what I understand quite popular when it retired as well.

Which makes it feel like they're retiring factions when they get popular.

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Is retirement of the 'Grand Lodge' too far-fetched of an idea?

EDIT: I mean, it seems to be the seat of a lot of distrust and discontent... could new leadership in the Society go 'Yeah, antiquated construct, we need something BETTER. We can BE BETTER!'?

Nah, it shouldn't be retired, every organization will have its yes-men, sycophants, and mindless factotums. But there should definitely be an alternative, for those who care about holding their leaders accountable...

Being a loyal Pathfinder who cares about the Society as a whole does not make you a “yes-man, sycophant or mindless factotum.”

Yes, I want more from the Grand Lodge than just being an umbrella catch-all. I want the Grand Lodge to deepen its charge to pick up the whole Pathfinder’s Union, and to be more about exploration and knowledge. I want Pathfinder rescue and body recovery missions. I want the Grand Lodge to rise to its story potential as a faction that does important things.

I dislike the implication that those who choose the Grand Lodge are somehow less than those who do not. There are people who are Grand Lodge because they passionately love the Society, warts and all.

Hmm

But there should definitely be an alternative, for those who care about holding their leaders accountable...

You think I abandoned the principles of the Shadow Lodge just because I allied with Amenopheus?

Disk Elemental wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Is retirement of the 'Grand Lodge' too far-fetched of an idea?

EDIT: I mean, it seems to be the seat of a lot of distrust and discontent... could new leadership in the Society go 'Yeah, antiquated construct, we need something BETTER. We can BE BETTER!'?

Nah, it shouldn't be retired, every organization will have its yes-men, sycophants, and mindless factotums. But there should definitely be an alternative, for those who care about holding their leaders accountable...

Being a loyal Pathfinder who cares about the Society as a whole does not make you a “yes-man, sycophant or mindless factotum.”

You are absolutely right. Now being in a faction whose motto is "loyalty to the decemvirate above all else" Where having personal motivations and views different from those of the society as a whole is discouraged on the other hand, I would posit that that does make you a yes man, at least a little.

I'm not going to lie, I'm terribly disappointed that Scarab Sages are going away.

I'm inclined to say a lot of unpleasant things right now, but I also try not to burn any bridges.

I'm going to try and find info justification.

"I am very much liking the saying of YES, especially when it being with the boisterous arm movements! Is official chant of Ambrus Valsin fanclub back home!"

"My loyalty is to the snows, not some ephemeral group of mortals..."

"I just think you're all idiots."

"I am very much liking the saying of YES, especially when it being with the boisterous arm movements! Is official chant of Ambrus Valsin fanclub back home."

Thank you. I so needed that!

★ --- ★ --- ★ --- ★

I understand the deep grieving over the Scarab Sages, but can we please stop the outright bashing of other factions while doing so? That doesn’t mean you can’t complain... By all means, keep doing so! Thoughtful analyses, or questions of potential, are great.

Non-Bashy Faction Complaints:

“I wish Faction X would do more Y,” or “I don’t like what has been happening with X’s storyline this year, they missed out on some potential for Z,” or “I wish there was more of a personality on X’s leader.”

Bashy Faction Complaints:

“Why didn’t they dump X instead? They bore me and they suck.”

★ --- ★ --- ★ --- ★

Please remember that every faction has people who love it, and who have made a faction’s goals and storyline part of a favorite character backstory.

Hmm

"Molos like Pathfinder Society. Society send Molos on mission all over Golarion. Get to see new place, meet new people, try new food, explore world! Molos thank Society for opportunity, repay favor by do what Society ask. Grand Lodge not perfect, but Valsin earn Molos loyalty."

This is my one Grand Lodge character who actually has a good reason to be in the GL. I think I have 4 others in the GL, just as a default, since none of the factions really suited them that well. As mentioned above, two of those are nature themed and will be joining the Concordance. And my archaeologist Scarab Sage PC will probably join the Grand Lodge in her pursuit of ancient lore.

If anyone has one of the faction cards with the discounted faction swap, Lissanya is perfectly willing to jump ship. Just saying.

"I just think you're all idiots."

...quietly concurs with this line of reasoning...

"Grand Lodge promised lots of Order. Liberty's Edge promised a chance for most GLORIOUS fighting for OUR LORD IN IRON!!"

COMPLAINTS that work for me:

“I wish Faction X would do more Y,” or “I don’t like what has been happening with X’s storyline this year, they missed out on some potential for Z,” or “I wish there was more of a personality on X’s leader.”

COMPLAINTS that don’t work for me:

“Why didn’t the dump X instead? They bore me and they suck.”

Okay. I wish the grand lodge write-up emphasized recovering stuff and studying stuff more and doing exactly what the ten say without question less. I also wish the motto for the grand lodge was maybe something more emphasizing the society's values as a whole rather than just "loyalty to the decemvirate above all else."

Hell, you could even just replace the word decemvirate in the motto with society. Even that much would go a long way to making it not feel like a grand lodge member has to be a sycophant.

How's that?

Maybe this was hinted at during a recent Special? Unlikely, but possible?

I think I'm also upset that by archaeologist will likely not have any more chances to date Tahonikepsu. Been working on that for like 4 years now and she still hasn't said yes. To be fair, she hasn't said no either. I guess there's still time.

See what I did there?

Okay. I wish the grand lodge write-up emphasized recovering stuff and studying stuff more and doing exactly what the ten say without question less. I also wish the motto for the grand lodge was maybe something more emphasizing the society's values as a whole rather than just "loyalty to the decemvirate above all else."

Hell, you could even just replace the word decemvirate in the motto with society. Even that much would go a long way to making it not feel like a grand lodge member has to be a sycophant.

How's that?

Great! Thank you! I wish the same things. When Zahra goes to Eyes of the Ten, she has some things she wants to discuss with the Decemvirate!

Hmm

Plus that whole will of the ten thing makes it sound a little cultish. I know it basically just means "do what the ten want" but it still makes it sound like they're talking about some deific figure or figures.

And now I'm considering making an Oracle who actually does think the ten are deific figures.

"Let us explore, report, and cooperate, and above all submit ourselves to the will of ten, for therein is enlightenment, peace, and all good things."

*rest of the party, and the venture captain giving the mission all sweatdrop and take a 5 foot step back*

Plus that whole will of the ten thing makes it sound a little cultish. I know it basically just means "do what the ten want" but it still makes it sound like they're talking about some deific figure or figures.

Deific figures wearing masks, preaching obedience to their will and a cut of the profits...

I must be one of the few to ever change my allegiance to the Grand Lodge. Given my devotion to protecting my allies, it eventually became obvious that it was the place for me.

Same here. When Torch, er, left, I figured the best place to fix things was on the inside.

Corwin Icewolf wrote:

Plus that whole will of the ten thing makes it sound a little cultish. I know it basically just means "do what the ten want" but it still makes it sound like they're talking about some deific figure or figures.

Deific figures wearing masks, preaching obedience to their will and a cut of the profits...

Razmir confirmed in the Decemvirate!

My infiltrator inquisitor to the Reaper of Reputation (Norgorber's aspect as the god of secrets) is the Dark Archive, since he likes being in on secrets. But the biggest secret he's trying to find out the identities of the Decemvirate.

My sandkin half-orc lion shaman druid from Katapesh joined the Scarab Sages because they were closest thing there was to a Garund-based and focused faction. With the impending retirement of Scarab Sages, he will shortly be forming the Garund Liberation Front (GLF) faction of the Pathfinder Society.

The primary goal of the GLF is transform the Pathfinder Society from serving as a tool of Avistani imperialism into an organization that benefits and serves the interests of all the races and ethnic/cultural communities of Golarion. Specifically, the GLF will call for the following:

1) A Society leadership that resembles and truly represents the rank-and-file of the Society. With the retirement of the Scarab Sages, all of the faction heads, but one, are from Avistan or Abasalom, and all of them, once again but one, are human.

2) Replacement of all non-Garund born Venture Captains leading lodges on that continent with local members of the Society.

3) The Society's non-recognition of the colonial settler state of Sargava, the moving of the Lodge in Sargava to one of the neighboring Mwangi communities, and the Society's support for the liberation of Sargava from the running dogs of Avistani imperialism.

Mechanically, he'll probably join Liberty's Edge and make a nuisance of himself.

1) A Society leadership that resembles and truly represents the rank-and-file of the Society. With the retirement of the Scarab Sages, all of the faction heads, but one, are from Avistan or Abasalom, and all of them, once again but one, are human.

There's two non-humans, actually. Ashasar is a Suli and Tamrin is a halfling.