Gods of Starfinder, Part Two

Desna! :D

So, now we have all the 20 gods! *-*

Abadar
LN god of civilization, commerce, law, and wealth

Besmara
CN goddess of piracy, space monsters, and strife

Damoritosh, The Conqueror
LE god of conquest, duty, and war

Desna
CG goddess of dreams, luck, stars, and travelers

Eloritu, The Hidden Truth
N god of history, magic, and secrets

Hylax, The Forever Queen
LG goddess of diplomacy, first contact, friendship, and peace

Ibra, The Inscrutable
N god of celestial bodies, the cosmos, and mysteries of the universe

Iomedae
LG goddess of honorable battle, humanity, justice, and valor

Lao Shu Po
NE goddess of assassins, rats, spies, and thieves

Nyarlathotep
CE Outer God of conspiracies, dangerous secrets, and forbidden magic

Oras, Agent of Change
CN god of adaptation, evolution, and natural selection

Pharasma
N goddess of birth, death, fate, and prophecy

Sarenrae
NG goddess of healing, redemption, and the sun

Talavet, The Storyteller
LN goddess of community, self-reliance, and tradition

The Devourer, The Star-Eater
CE god of black holes, destruction, and supernovas

Triune, The All-Code
N god of artificial intelligence, computers, and the Drift

Urgathoa
NE goddess of disease, gluttony, and undeath

Weydan, The Endless Horizon
CG god of discovery, equality, exploration, and freedom

Yaraesa, Lady of Wisdom
NG goddess of knowledge, mental perfection, scholarship, and science

Zon-Kuthon
LE god of darkness, envy, loss, and pain

Besmara!

I guess instead of tossing tribute over the railing, you now toss it out of an airlock?

$10 says that Lamashtu was the deity that Besmara trashed during the Gap.

So does that mean that the CEO of AbadarCorp is also the High Priest of Abadar's religion, then?

So does that mean that the CEO of AbadarCorp is also the High Priest of Abadar's religion, then?

Yes, Owen actually said this in the premier stream.

Interesting....especially Besmara's promotion.

Though I would have preferred Asmodeus over Zon-Kuthon...especially with Shelyn being absent.

But I am guessing a lot of the deities are still around just not 'Core'...are we going get a complete list beyond the Core 20?

Ventnor wrote:

So does that mean that the CEO of AbadarCorp is also the High Priest of Abadar's religion, then?

Yes, Owen actually said this in the premier stream.

I guess that makes Abadar the CDO of AbadarCorp.

Desna!

Besmara!

Ooooo, I really like Ibra!

$10 says that Lamashtu was the deity that Besmara trashed during the Gap.

I truly hope you're right; that would not only be delightfully ironic (considering that was how Lamashtu became a deity), but really awesome too!

HUZZAH.

Ibra is awesome.
Desna is still awesome.
Besmara is still... not evil somehow, even though she's at least as nasty as Damoritosh.

If Besmara actually deposed a deity from divine status as opposed to just major status, Torag is the most likely candidate since it is unlikely that any single deity could have taken out Rovagug. So far no other deities have been confirmed as missing.

Seems a fair amount of overlap here and there.

Do Abadar and Talavet get along?

What about Desna and Ibra, with also Iomedae's sole sun?

Eloritu, Ibra and Nyarlothotep seem likely to fight over secrets and mysteries, and come into conflict with the inquisitive Lao Shu Po and Yaraesa (Ya-ray-sa? Another victim for Wacky Pronunciation Time)

I fully expect to offend people by conflating Iomedae and Damoritosh.

If Besmara actually deposed a deity from divine status as opposed to just major status, Torag is the most likely candidate since it is unlikely that any single deity could have taken out Rovagug. So far no other deities have been confirmed as missing.

On one hand, Torag is missing. On the other, he didn't have dominion over monsters. Lamashtu did. And she's not quite as big a deal now as she once was.

Actually, it's kind of interesting that the major fiend deities seemed to have been knocked down a peg.

Well none of the things Besmara represents are necessarily evil, piracy is all about freedom(you can have pirates that liberate slaves and only steal from corrupt politicians for example), space monsters are probably mostly mindless beasts, and strife is kind of natural force even though it's a negative one. Based on the fact that she's got space monsters in her portfolio it makes sense that she'd have stolen it from Lamashtu.

...They've cut all my favorite deities? *sighs*

And yes, I know they may still exist.

I'm extremely disappointed that Nocticula didn't make the cut, what with all the foreshadowing and hinting that she's trying to ascend.

I'm extremely disappointed that Nocticula didn't make the cut, what with all the foreshadowing and hinting that she's trying to ascend.

Maybe she did ascend but then got her ass kicked by Besmara.

I'm extremely disappointed that Nocticula didn't make the cut, what with all the foreshadowing and hinting that she's trying to ascend.

Well... It's not like she would ascend from evil demigod to core god... Maybe she is a minor god.

Besmara herself was already a goddess, unlike Nocticula.

We have only been told about two deities missing: Torag and Rovagug. Also, deposed does not mean killed. I would wager that Lamashtu is a lesser deity than she was because of Besmara and that Besmara may have had nothing to do with Torag and Rovagug.

Well none of the things Besmara represents are necessarily evil, piracy is all about freedom

From Mirriam-Webster:

Piracy.
1: an act of robbery on the high seas; also : an act resembling such robbery

2: robbery on the high seas

Piracy is not all about freedom. It's all about theft. And the type Besmara promotes is specifically armed theft.

If Damoritosh "I want to conquer everybody through force of arms" is evil, then Besmara, "I glorify strife and the attacking of ships (in hard vacuum) to take what they're carrying" isn't too far behind.

With respect to, "you can have pirates that liberate slaves and only steal from corrupt politicians for example"? That's certainly possible. And those guys probably worship Desna or Weydan.

HUZZAH.

Ibra is awesome.
Desna is still awesome.
Besmara is still... not evil somehow, even though she's at least as nasty as Damoritosh.

I am meh about all of these.

Desna's one of my favorite deities from Pathfinder, but the blurb here up makes her seem a bit more hedonistic than she did in pathfinder. Might be misreading that though.

Inbra's concept it awesome- the "deity of cselestial bodies" sounds awesome. However... well, honestly, I always thought Desna filled that roll. And the write up here makes it seem... well, I'm not sure what the write up is. A wierd sort of moral relativism? It's hard to describe.

But again, most of Ibra seems like it could have been filled by Desna.

And now we have Besmara. Because the god of killing people and taking their stuff for personal gain is somehow "neutral". At least Damoritosh seems to (in a twisted sense ) value individuals sacrificing themselves for the sake of others, which is more than Besmara can say. I'm fine with her being in the core 20, but she's getting the CE alignment she deserves in my games.

On the topic of Damoritosh- on the one hand, I'm glad we've got a dentist of military conquest, and love the concept. However, about him being the deity of duty.... that ought to be Iomidae's realm of influence. I really don't like an evil deity getting that sphere of influence.

Overall, I like the Starfinder pantheon, but I'll definitely be making changes to it in my home brew games.

David knott 242 wrote:

If Besmara actually deposed a deity from divine status as opposed to just major status, Torag is the most likely candidate since it is unlikely that any single deity could have taken out Rovagug. So far no other deities have been confirmed as missing.

On one hand, Torag is missing. On the other, he didn't have dominion over monsters. Lamashtu did. And she's not quite as big a deal now as she once was.

Actually, it's kind of interesting that the major fiend deities seemed to have been knocked down a peg.

Besmara always had dominion over Sea Monsters. They just changed Sea for Space.

I'm extremely disappointed that Nocticula didn't make the cut, what with all the foreshadowing and hinting that she's trying to ascend.

My guess is that they do not want to spoil what is happening with Nocticula.

Piracy is primarily selfish though. I do whatever I have to do for myself, take what I want, and do what I want. Neutral.

Damoritosh is about conquering and oppression and imposing your will on people. War for the sake of war, with no actual goal, that's just how the universe is. More along the lines if evil (though I'd actually pegged him for neutral initially)

Question, why is Damoritosh LE and not LN? Neither his portfolio nor his writing suggests particular evil over neutrality, specially when he seems the lawful counterpart of Gorum rather than a deity more like Moloch. Sure, he does forgo honor and such when necessary for victory, but he says when necessary (and not when pragmatic, because a victory at higher costs remains a victory). And Ragathiel remains as an example of a LG god which doesn't do diplomacy, which means that his undiplomatic attitude shouldn't be a quality to make him evil.

David knott 242 wrote:

If Besmara actually deposed a deity from divine status as opposed to just major status, Torag is the most likely candidate since it is unlikely that any single deity could have taken out Rovagug. So far no other deities have been confirmed as missing.

On one hand, Torag is missing. On the other, he didn't have dominion over monsters. Lamashtu did. And she's not quite as big a deal now as she once was.

Actually, it's kind of interesting that the major fiend deities seemed to have been knocked down a peg.

My take would be the opposite on Lamashtu...I would see her as being a bigger deal now. Forget about all those planets just filled with new monsters to crossbreed...but think of a cultist that happens to a geneticist can do...

Piracy is primarily selfish though. I do whatever I have to do for myself, take what I want, and do what I want.

Including blowing holes in ships traveling in hard vacuum because you wanted the stuff they had.

Damoritosh is about conquering and oppression and imposing your will on people.

Piracy in its armed form is all about conquering (one ship at a time) and oppression (those people didn't want you to mess with them) and imposing your will on people.

Question, why is Damoritosh LE and not LN? Neither his portfolio nor his writing suggests particular evil over neutrality, specially when he seems the lawful counterpart of Gorum rather than a deity more like Moloch. Sure, he does forgo honor and such when necessary for victory, but he says when necessary (and not when pragmatic, because a victory at higher costs remains a victory). And Ragathiel remains as an example of a LG god which doesn't do diplomacy, which means that his undiplomatic attitude shouldn't be a quality to make him evil.

Because he promote war as the ONLY way to be relevant. If you are not a warrior you are nothing mentality kind makes me think of evil.

Also no concern about Freedom or Comfort...also is kinda evil.

Question, why is Damoritosh LE and not LN? Neither his portfolio nor his writing suggests particular evil over neutrality, specially when he seems the lawful counterpart of Gorum rather than a deity more like Moloch. Sure, he does forgo honor and such when necessary for victory, but he says when necessary (and not when pragmatic, because a victory at higher costs remains a victory). And Ragathiel remains as an example of a LG god which doesn't do diplomacy, which means that his undiplomatic attitude shouldn't be a quality to make him evil.

I would also add the fact that he "encourages the acceptance of a foe's honorable surrender to avoid wasting lives for no additional gain". I have never heard of an evil god of war that spares his enemies or cared about wasting lives...

Piracy is primarily selfish though. I do whatever I have to do for myself, take what I want, and do what I want. Neutral.

I read that exact same sentence and thought to myself "Exactly. That's why she's evil." Besides, doing whatever you "have" to do and whatever you "want" to do are often very different things.

Damoritosh is about conquering and oppression and imposing your will on people. War for the sake of war, with no actual goal, that's just how the universe is. More along the lines if evil (though I'd actually pegged him for neutral initially)

Conquering for its own sake as evil, sure. I would dispute "imposing your will" and "oppression" as being inherently evil -although they certainly are more often then they are not. You could make the arguments that Paladins in Pathfinder are "imposing their will" on the Demons of the world wound (the paladins would rightfully call it something else, but the demons would certinaly say so).

In any case, I'm not disputing Damoritosh is evil. He is. But that's for the same reason that Gorum ought to have been considered evil, and I'd even say that he's less evil than Gorum is.

Tuvarkz wrote:

Question, why is Damoritosh LE and not LN? Neither his portfolio nor his writing suggests particular evil over neutrality, specially when he seems the lawful counterpart of Gorum rather than a deity more like Moloch. Sure, he does forgo honor and such when necessary for victory, but he says when necessary (and not when pragmatic, because a victory at higher costs remains a victory). And Ragathiel remains as an example of a LG god which doesn't do diplomacy, which means that his undiplomatic attitude shouldn't be a quality to make him evil.

Because he promote war as the ONLY way to be relevant. If you are not a warrior you are nothing mentality kind makes me think of evil.

Also no concern about Freedom or Comfort...also is kinda evil.

"No concern for Freedom or Comfort" means he doesn't care either way, not that he's against it.

Also, it doesn't say war is the only way to be relevant. "war and conquest are woven into the fabric of the universe" Means that war and conquest (and perhaps violence in a larger part) are inherent parts of life, not that they are the only one worth noting. He's probably against pacifist stances, but there's many Good and Neutral gods that don't like pacifism either (and again, Gorum).

Besmara isn't the goddess of real-world pirates, she's the goddess of Disney pirates.

Besmara isn't the goddess of real-world pirates, she's the goddess of Disney pirates.

The skulls and shackles AP (the pirate one) painted a pretty non-Disney picture of piracy in the Pathfinder setting.

Pathfinder is very vague about what it considers piracy, one group of pirates in one of the books was a load of halflings that freed other halfling slaves from Chelish ships, and the Andoran Privateers are classed as a pirate organisation, It's such a mixed bag of people just doing whatever they want that I think CN makes sense.

Out of curiosity I looked up the Pathfinder definition of Chaotic Neutral:

"A chaotic neutral character follows his whims, he is an individualist, beholden to no one. He values his own liberty but doesn’t actively strive to protect freedom as that would make them chaotic good. He avoids authority, resents any sort of law or restriction, and challenges confining traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy as such an action would have to be motivated either by good (a desire to liberate others or destroy tyranny) or evil (and a desire to make those who oppose him suffer just for the sake of it). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behaviour is not random, he has his own goals and aims and he will stick to them, even if they change regularly or do not coincide with those of his society."

I think this fits the broad idea of a pirate (at least how I imagine a decent number of fictional pirates) though there are probably gonna be a lot of exceptions since pirates are a pretty varied lot.

Besmara had Sea Monsters before, so Space monsters are just the logical next step

Still, I think she is a really cool deity and I am glad she made it into the core

Besmara is the deity of both realistic pirates and disney pirates and all types that take to the sea. That is why she is considered CN. When you bring up Pirates in a fantasy setting has a somewhat idealized viewpoint of what pirates are. They think of dashing swashbuckling adventurers looking for treasure just as much as they think of the brutal bloodthirsty pirates ala Blackbeard. What people truly think of pirates in western culture is the idea of freedom via the sea and open waters, not being bound to any government or even fighting back against strict or oppressive ones. And in some instances, pirates where just that in real life maybe not necessarily as romanticized but "freedom fighter" in some cases. But realistic or not we live in a post-pirates of the Caribbean, a post treasure planet world. And you might say other deities might fulfill that role, but to have a deity of "Pirates" that encompasses all the good and bad that comes within that word is powerful. Much like how I'm sure their are corrupt portions of abadarcorp that forces people to work for petty pay(if any at all) while doing hard-labor, there are also those that focus on using industry to make the lives of all easier.

For those wondering why Asmodeus is no longer in the top 20 -- I suspect that a lot of people with LE tendencies found the straightforward militarism of Damaritosh far more appealing than the complex and deceptive legalistic maneuvering of Asmodeus.

I do find it interesting that, for 6 of the 9 alignmets, we seem to have one established Pathfinder deity and one alien deity.

John Kretzer wrote:

Tuvarkz wrote:

Question, why is Damoritosh LE and not LN? Neither his portfolio nor his writing suggests particular evil over neutrality, specially when he seems the lawful counterpart of Gorum rather than a deity more like Moloch. Sure, he does forgo honor and such when necessary for victory, but he says when necessary (and not when pragmatic, because a victory at higher costs remains a victory). And Ragathiel remains as an example of a LG god which doesn't do diplomacy, which means that his undiplomatic attitude shouldn't be a quality to make him evil.

Because he promote war as the ONLY way to be relevant. If you are not a warrior you are nothing mentality kind makes me think of evil.

Also no concern about Freedom or Comfort...also is kinda evil.

"No concern for Freedom or Comfort" means he doesn't care either way, not that he's against it.

And being a god of military duty, obvious parallels can be drawn to any martial order under history. Soldiers don't get to live in comfortable conditions when at war, and mutinity/desertion are nearly always capital crimes (or incredibly heavily punished) for a good reason, as a chain of command is necessary to keep an army running.

Also, it doesn't say war is the only way to be relevant. "war and conquest are woven into the fabric of the universe" Means that war and conquest (and perhaps violence in a larger part) are inherent parts of life, not that they are the only one worth noting. He's probably against pacifist stances, but there's many Good and Neutral gods that don't like pacifism either (and again, Gorum).

I am guessing you are missing the part where it is says if you are not a warrior you are coward and are unimportant and should be scorned...

And sure military discipline and duty is how you need to run a army...but I get the vibe that he thinks all of society should be like that...

I think it is the L part that screams Evil to me as oppose to Gorum's C part seems to allow for a a more neutral stance.

Overall in Chaotic faiths you will see more interpretations of the faith than say Lawful faiths.

Well, alignments isn't as important in Starfinder as it is in Pathfinder. I'm not sure they still have effects that target creatures with a certain alignment.

Overall in Chaotic faiths you will see more interpretations of the faith than say Lawful faiths.

I disagree with that, actually. Chaotic types are unlikely to worry about semantics or hairsplitting interpretative details.

They aren't likely to tolerate a five day seminar on 'What did Abadar mean by 'blessed are the cheesemakers,' they just want to get on eating the cheese already.

John Kretzer wrote:

Overall in Chaotic faiths you will see more interpretations of the faith than say Lawful faiths.

I disagree with that, actually. Chaotic types are unlikely to worry about semantics or hairsplitting interpretative details.

They aren't likely to tolerate a five day seminar on 'What did Abadar mean by 'blessed are the cheesemakers,' they just want to get on eating the cheese already.

I think you'll find that Abadar actually said "Blessed are the cheese-crafters." Chapter V, Paragraph 4, sub-paragraph p of Abadar's Big Book of Civilization specifically says that cows are ineligible for blessing.

That's heresy, good sir! Heresy I say!

Well, alignments isn't as important in Starfinder as it is in Pathfinder. I'm not sure they still have effects that target creatures with a certain alignment.

I believe that someone working at Paizo said that "holy plasma cannons will definitely be a thing" or something to that effect. So there should be some effect on alignments in the game.

Pretty sure Damoritosh being Evil has less to do with him being a God of War (which is neutral in Paizo's view of alignment) and more to with being a God of Conquest. Maybe I'm looking at him to closely but the guy seems to a be social darwinist and cultural imperialist that demands that you stand by your race, species, planet, etc at the expense of all others who happen to be weaker that you.

That seems pretty Evil to me and has been used as an excuse for everything from bullying to genocide.

Besmara gets a pass because fantasy and scifi pirates are constantly depicted as lovable rogues (Captain Harlock, Strawhat Luffy, Jack Sparrow) instead of the a~&!!~+s they historically were. Also, let's be honest and admit Chaotic Neutrals, even when played right, come across as selfish a!@~+++s.

Besmara?

My god, it's full of arrrrrrrs!

There's also this line,

Damoritosh is a harsh deity, with no concern for freedom or comfort.

Gorum wants you to fight, Damoritosh doesn't give you a choice.

John Kretzer wrote:

Overall in Chaotic faiths you will see more interpretations of the faith than say Lawful faiths.

I disagree with that, actually. Chaotic types are unlikely to worry about semantics or hairsplitting interpretative details.

They aren't likely to tolerate a five day seminar on 'What did Abadar mean by 'blessed are the cheesemakers,' they just want to get on eating the cheese already.

Is that not what I said...?

Voss wrote:

John Kretzer wrote:

Overall in Chaotic faiths you will see more interpretations of the faith than say Lawful faiths.

I disagree with that, actually. Chaotic types are unlikely to worry about semantics or hairsplitting interpretative details.

They aren't likely to tolerate a five day seminar on 'What did Abadar mean by 'blessed are the cheesemakers,' they just want to get on eating the cheese already.

Is that not what I said...?

I thought it was what you said. But then, I'm chaotic, so maybe it wasn't what I thought you said. WILL SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME CHEESE?!