Pathfinder Battles Preview: Rounding Out the Elements

Bravo! More figures I am sure to use. Thank you Erik.

Now, if we could just get some huge elementals to round out the collection...

These look wonderful, and will be really, really useful. I particularly like the air elemental, which looks to me like it could maybe double for some other interesting creatures too.

Definitely!

As far as Huge elementals go, I see two possible options.

One is a single set with 4 huge figures, one of each type. Sort of like what was done for the huges in Reign of Winter.

The other is a set with 1 huge, 1 large and 1 medium elemental of a single type. Kind of like the dragon sets. Since you already have sculpts for the large and commons, the cost of the set should hopefully be lower. People would probably still buy that set, even with 2 repeats, because elementals are the kind of figure you can really use a lot of. Also, Shattered Star was put out long ago enough that you will probably have folks buying in who didn't get them before. Plus I recall that the secondary market for them is expensive, so there is still a market for them.

I sell a lot of minis, and I'm always surprised that elementals aren't bigger sellers than I've found them to be, since they're such a staple. But that's for the smaller ones; the WotC Huges are always popular, I find.

Though no one's done a huge Water Elemental, which is a pretty big gap, and an opportunity! (Nudge nudge)

Loving these. Bring on the hordes of small elementals!

Very nice! I like the elementals from the other sets. This will be a nice addition. Good choices for commons because they are useful to have in numbers.

And I don't think anyone's done a small Air or Water Elemental before. Mephits, but no straight-up elementals. So pleased we'll have that option!

As far as Huge elementals go, I see two possible options.

One is a single set with 4 huge figures, one of each type. Sort of like what was done for the huges in Reign of Winter.

The other is a set with 1 huge, 1 large and 1 medium elemental of a single type. Kind of like the dragon sets. Since you already have sculpts for the large and commons, the cost of the set should hopefully be lower. People would probably still buy that set, even with 2 repeats, because elementals are the kind of figure you can really use a lot of. Also, Shattered Star was put out long ago enough that you will probably have folks buying in who didn't get them before. Plus I recall that the secondary market for them is expensive, so there is still a market for them.

I would prefer a single set of huges, or 2 sets of 2 huges. I think if the go with the Evolutions idea, it will take more than a year to get all the minis out. With a single set, they're all available right out of the box (so to speak). Of course, a single set would be pricey.

Regardless, I'm glad to see some Small Elementals.

-Skeld

Now, if we could just get some huge elementals to round out the collection...

yes please

A box with 1 of each huge ele would be wonderful

Speaking of the ongoing case subscription, I noticed the price when I add it to my cart is still the same. It's showing $368.18 (including the incentive piece). In a few posts back it was mentioned that the 30% off was going to be off the $399.99 listed price, not the $511.68 MSRP.

It's been stated on here several times since the original post that corrections to the page/price would occur. I hate to be the nag, again, but is that change still in the works? I know with the pending release of Reign of Winter only a couple weeks off, I'm sure you'll want to fix it or clarify the price one final time.

With the announcement of the Lost Coast release, I now have a small window to purchase the Early Bird special from another vendor. I was hoping to have the subscription issue resolved by now so I could just sign up for all future cases through this website.

Because it's been more than a month since the initial announcement of the change to the case subscription cost, I'm guessing there are either technical issues with the website or the 30% off applies to the MSRP after all, and not the $399.99 suggested price. As such, I'm going to go ahead and sign up for the Early Bird Special from the other vendor for the forthcoming Lost Coast line. At $310.00 (w/case incentive & free S&H) I feel it's too good of a price to pass up.

If the changes occur to the price on here in the next week or two, please let the board know and I'll do my best to cancel my order with the other retailer and officially sign up for the Paizo case subscription series from here on out.

I've also been tempted to sign up for the Adventure Path series subscription. Until the case subscription price is corrected, or we get an official statement that there was a communication error, I'm hesitant to sign up for any subscription via the Paizo website.

Assuming the previous huge set went well I can't see a reason why we couldn't get sets of two huge elementals, say fire and water, earth and air. Sort of elements of opposition sets.

As for these, fantastic. All four look pretty darn good given the tiny pictures. I particularly like the look of the air elemental, with the fire and water just behind it. The earth is hard to make out. It's so good to finally have all three sizes as pathfinder sculpts, now just the huge.

I'm so confused.

When I take out the case subscription for Reign of Winter and instead add the Wrath of the Righteous, the price changes. The price drops down to what it would be for the 30% off the $399.99 price.

However, when I take the Wrath of the Righteous case subscription out and add the Reign of Winter case, it goes back up to $368.18 (w/incentive). Is this because the RoW is forthcoming, so the price hasn't officially changed yet? If I add RoW to my cart as the first case in my subscription and it shows the higher price, will the price automatically come down (and charge me) at the lower price once it officially goes on the market?

I apologize for the nagging, I'm just trying to get a hold on the situation.

As for the previews shown, I love them all. I'm a sucker for elementals, so this week was an easy sell on me.

To be specific, that small fire elemental looks AMAZING! I'm also excited to see the water elemental in hand.

+1 for the Huge elementals as part of a two-pack.

As Cat-thulhu mentions, an Elements of Opposition theme would work well for two distinct releases at the same time. By going with Air vs. Earth and Fire vs. Water, you'd get the four original elementals from Pathfinder out into the field. And their success could dictate whether it makes sense to do the same thing for the beautiful illustrations of those elementals found in the Bestiary 2.

The Elements of Opposition theme packs would be great for the Huge-sized additions to the Lost Coast line. They'd work equally well on their own to help tide us over on miniatures from June until November.

@Erik just curious, are there plans for a properly sized troll to replace the one that was in Heroes & Monsters?

Hell to the yes please. An appropriate troll, and at least 1 more Ogre to match the lone smaller one from runelords please!

If there is another ogre, please make it female.

[hint]If these were 3D-sculpted, it would be really easy and cost-effective, to create scaled-up version at every size category.[/hint]

Interesting questions, guys!

I'm so confused.

When I take out the case subscription for Reign of Winter and instead add the Wrath of the Righteous, the price changes. The price drops down to what it would be for the 30% off the $399.99 price.

However, when I take the Wrath of the Righteous case subscription out and add the Reign of Winter case, it goes back up to $368.18 (w/incentive). Is this because the RoW is forthcoming, so the price hasn't officially changed yet? If I add RoW to my cart as the first case in my subscription and it shows the higher price, will the price automatically come down (and charge me) at the lower price once it officially goes on the market?

I apologize for the nagging, I'm just trying to get a hold on the situation.

I reckon the customer service forum would be a good place for these questions. They generally chase this kind of thing down and can give you a definitive answer (plus will be the people to fix things if something goes screwy).

Personally, I'd sign up for the sub. Paizo will either get it sorted by the release of RoW or they'll make it good if the system charges you the wrong price.

Pigraven wrote:

I'm so confused.

When I take out the case subscription for Reign of Winter and instead add the Wrath of the Righteous, the price changes. The price drops down to what it would be for the 30% off the $399.99 price.

However, when I take the Wrath of the Righteous case subscription out and add the Reign of Winter case, it goes back up to $368.18 (w/incentive). Is this because the RoW is forthcoming, so the price hasn't officially changed yet? If I add RoW to my cart as the first case in my subscription and it shows the higher price, will the price automatically come down (and charge me) at the lower price once it officially goes on the market?

I apologize for the nagging, I'm just trying to get a hold on the situation.

I reckon the customer service forum would be a good place for these questions. They generally chase this kind of thing down and can give you a definitive answer (plus will be the people to fix things if something goes screwy).

Personally, I'd sign up for the sub. Paizo will either get it sorted by the release of RoW or they'll make it good if the system charges you the wrong price.

Right on. I'll head over there now.

Hell to the yes please. An appropriate troll, and at least 1 more Ogre to match the lone smaller one from runelords please!

So is the Troll from the H&M line too big or too small? The Ogre from the Rise of the Runelords set is the correct size?

Are there any other size issues from the early sets?

Four great elementals I'd want in multiples. Especially since they match their Shattered Star brethren. I'm a big fan of these 'fill in the gaps" sets.

nice!
now I don't have to buy 4 Ice Elementals and 3 pots of paint

So is the Troll from the H&M line too big or too small?

it's perfect size for a baby troll...

Awesome preview! I look forward to these lil' guys.

On a PFB-related tangent: any update on the physical rewards from the Pathfinder Online Kickstarter campaign? I'm looking forward to those minis!

Cat-thulhu wrote:

Hell to the yes please. An appropriate troll, and at least 1 more Ogre to match the lone smaller one from runelords please!

So is the Troll from the H&M line too big or too small? The Ogre from the Rise of the Runelords set is the correct size?

Are there any other size issues from the early sets?

The troll from H&M is too small. Its on the correct base, but the figure is way smaller than it should be. I havent noticed any size issues anywhere else.

I believe Cat-thulu was just differentiating the regular ogre from the ogre brute in that set.

Yup. The Ogre from the set is the correct size for an ogre. Theother two in the set, the brute and Kreeg ogre are both oversized "brute" versions of an ogre. I'm hoping we'll get more of the regular sized ogres to provide some variet in the ranks. The one in heroes and monsters was, I believe, the correct scale it just lacks the excellent shading and detail on the runelords ones.

As for other size issues in earlier sets, the lamia in runelords or the troll champion in shattered star are about the only two missteps I can recall. Neither are scale mis-steps in my mind. I'm one of those who believe the lamia is the correct scale and is a nice rendering of that particular monster(just had the wrong bra on for the photo shoot). The troll is a champion so should be larger - he towers over all other giant kind save the huge storm giant and gargantuan rune giant. I think with this one it was the fact that we had the teeny weeny troll then an uncommon champion - netting you 3-4 very large trolls. As a general rule the paizo-wizkids alliance has got scale pretty well spot on.

Now further speculation on this set:

perhaps we'll get a harrower, there is some damned nice artwork in several books, one that could make awesome use of transparent plastic for a magical card shuffling effect.

The other mini from H&M that was cited as a size issue was the Dire Rat, which seemed quite large.

Oh yeah I blanked that one out. Teething problems. These look perfect in terns of scale, I'm kind of excited about this set.

Thanks everyone for the information.

Until recently, I've primarily been a Bestiary and main books kind of guy. So what books from Paizo might we see monsters and other characters from in regards to the Lost Coast set?

So far these are the ones I know of:
Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path
Shattered Star Adventure Path

I'm curious as to what other specific Paizo publications might be used. Surely there will be some Campaign Settings and Player Companions, but I'm not sure which ones cover the Lost Coast.

Erik said that many of the pieces from this set spawn from a combination of how often they can be used at the game table and their artwork. With that in mind I'm looking through some of the Adventure Paths above and trying to guess what we might see. I'd like to do the same for the other potential sources.

I believe the only ones set in Varisia are:

Rise of the Runelords
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Second Darkness
Shattered Star

I believe the only ones set in Varisia are:

Rise of the Runelords
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Second Darkness
Shattered Star

I would probably add the following two as viable sources as well:

Varisis - Birthplace of Legends and Magnimar, City of Monuments.

The first part of Jade Regent is also in Varisia.

There's also the Thassilon chapter of Lost Kingdoms.

There's also the Guide to Korvosa, a 3.5-era city book.

City of Strangers may be too far inland for a set focused on the coast, but perhaps not. If not, then the modules Seven Swords of Sin, Feast of Ravenmoor, and the Godsmouth Heresy could be candidates.

Other books have touched on content.. Cyphermages from Inner Sea Magic, for example, or Riddleport Pirates from Pirates of the Inner Sea.

We Be Goblins and We Be Goblins Too.. perhaps Squealy Nord will be immortalized in plastic?

Thanks everyone.

Is there a map somewhere that I can look at and see all the major cities/areas along the Lone Coast?

There's also been Lost Coast/Sandpoint info in the Beginners Box, and in the comics.

Hmm no mini preview this week (24th)? Pity, I really look forward to these, especially since this set is looking so cool so far

Hmm no mini preview this week (24th)? Pity, I really look forward to these, especially since this set is looking so cool so far

My guess is Friday--and the holiday weekend--creeped up on them rogue-style.

I look forward to the releases, too. They make for a great injection of anticipation to help kick off the weekend after a long week.

With only 45 miniatures per set, and 8 already known and/or previewed, we're going to get to the end of this reveal way before the November release. I wonder if they have something else going on in between to help with the wait? I feel as though there will/should be a mini-release in between. Perhaps another Dragon Evolutions set or the release of a couple more Huge packs.

I must admit, while I'm adamant about helping Paizo as much as possible, I'm also excited for the upcoming new line of D&D miniatures. The dragons are sculpted with in-flight poses, and they will provide an excellent addition to all the other dragons we have. Those wraiths look really cool, and the Frost Giant looks like a bigger, stronger version than the one from the Heroes & Monsters line. I was a big fan of the visual appearance of the pathfinder frost giant miniature, I just found him to be way too small and delicate looking.

While I'm more interested in the D&D miniatures themselves for use at my table in my own campaigns, I think that other company did a smart thing in creating an entirely separate game, Dragon Attack Wing, that utilizes aerial and ground troops alike. Provided the game remains somewhat popular, it allows them to continue to put together small groups of non-random miniature packs that specialize in combat. The set of six Hobgoblin troops, for example, makes plenty of sense. A $20-25 investment buys you a small troop of Hobgoblins that work on two fronts: For those investing in and running the Dragon Attack Wing game and for those DM's who like putting together small troops or armies of lower-level monsters.

Having said that, I'm also super-excited for this Lost Coast release, as I think going back and touching on some of the missed opportunities from previous Adventure Paths make sense. In addition, the flexibility to stick with a particular region also allows them a chance to incorporate more DM-friendly monsters. It even allows them to "fix" some of the miniatures people had issues with in the past. The troll seems to be one such monster that people had issues with (size) and that we could see included in this set.

I'm of the belief that several factors play into determining what makes for a good choice of miniature. I think it is wise to incorporate your base source material--the most universal of a company's material to pull from--into a miniature line as much as possible. The reason being is that I've found the more I get into playing with miniatures, and meeting others playing with miniatures, the more I find that for every DM heavily invested in the Pathfinder universe, there are five DM's that simply prefer the rules better than 3.5, and thus mainly use the hard-bound Pathfinder books and nothing else. When buying miniatures, these DM's will buy what they need that makes sense for them, and have little need for too many miniatures not found in the base source material.

That's why I think it makes sense to incorporate monsters exclusive to additional Paizo publications, such as those only found in the Bestiaries of the Adventure Paths, at a somewhat slow rate. Include the visually coolest ones, like the Sandpoint Devil, but try not to put too many into any one particular Battles line. After all, you want to include a couple in each set so as to pull DM's into the Pathfinder universe.

That is what has happened to me: I didn't care a wit about the Adventure Path or Campaign Setting books until a couple years after buying into the Pathfinder brand itself. At the time it was about money and time, and so when I made my choices, I made them on principal of only buying the main core books, because I liked the rule changes. It wasn't that I wasn't interested in the other things at all, but I just didn't have the time to invest in another fantasy universe. Then when changes in my life allowed me that time and financial investment, I slowly started getting my feet wet. Even know, I'm only in up to my ankles, per se, and it's clear that most of you already have so much more knowledge than I do.

I've been playing D&D and running campaigns for so long now that I've always appreciated Erik's choice of weird or wild miniature in each set, as well as some of the other Pathfinder-exclusive miniatures. In a world where the fantasy medium is still so obsessed with dragons, vampires, werewolves, zombies, demons and, to a lesser extent, giants, it's always great to see totally new creatures. But I totally understand a DM that might not have the years of experience I do but still looking to put together his monster collection. Of course he's going to want to start with all the traditional monsters.

NPCs are a different story. NPCs, above all, need to be unique and interesting, and in miniature form, very well sculpted and painted. Generally speaking, NPC's are nice because they can often represent several classes that players can then use the miniature as representation for their PC. Additionally, good-looking NPC's can be crucial in a game, especially when one runs such role-play-heavy campaigns like I do. When Erik gets excited about the detailed design on a Cleric or Paladin's armor or shield, it's exciting because THOSE are the things that can make or break a miniature for me. Up until I started leafing through some older source material (Adventure Paths, Campaign Settings, etc.), I didn't care WHERE these NPC's could be found in the Pathfinder world. Instead, I cared that the miniatures were distinct enough that sigils could be seen, etc. After all, anyone can make up their own names for gods in a campaign, and use pre-existing symbols for visual representation. But if that representation isn't there on the miniatures, then there isn't much to distinguish Clerics and Paladins from your average run of the mill fighter.

So again, along comes this Lost Coast line, and it gets it right. It packages together three similar looking gang-like characters, but all uniquely different so that there is no mistake between them. They allow a DM to use them as exactly as who they are in terms of the Pathfinder universe, or to use them in a home-brew campaign. Either way, it's clearly evident that while these three miniatures each represent a different class of character, they are all affiliated with the same particular group. That's DM gold right there, however you look at it. It becomes DM Mithril when one considers that the DM doesn't have to wait any additional time (for future lines) to get the necessary characters. With the purchase of one entire case, I'll have enough of those black-coated ruffians to represent a gang in my home-brew campaigns, or to serve as what they really are should I decide to play one of the Adventure Paths where they can be found.

The one issue I think that is toughest to cover is unique, non-battle NPC's. There appears to be a small but dire need for unique, non-battle NPC's. One example would be a town mayor. Now there have been several miniatures that can pass as a mayor, but none really that without a doubt is a mayor.

Every DM I've met over the last couple years that uses miniatures wishes there were more of this type of miniature. But they understand the problem, of course. Outside of DM-use, there isn't much use for these types of miniatures. While purchasing multiple copies of the same soldier or monster miniature might make sense for a DM, there isn't much logic in getting doubles or triples of the local blacksmith. And now with the Pathfinder lines dropping ten unique sculpts per line, it makes even less sense to incorporate them into the Battles lines.

There are several ways around this, and I'll suggest some in another post, but for now that's the way it goes.

Generally speaking, I think Paizo has it right as far as what makes for a good mix of miniatures in any particular line. I think "generic" lines like the Lost Coast line is perfect in that it doesn't tie the company down to any one particular Adventure Path, but allows them to stick with a general theme. I'm guessing that the majority of monsters in this line can be found in the bestiaries, while the NPC-types can be found in wide variety of sources that encourage further immersion into the Pathfinder universe.

The other mini from H&M that was cited as a size issue was the Dire Rat, which seemed quite large.

Oh yeah I forgot about that one but yur right. Its a bit bigger than Harsk from RotR and dwarves are aprox 5' tall lol, thats one big rat! I would think that even a dire rat should be no bigger than the Kobold Champion, also of RotR

I would add Seelah to the list, she's barely taller than Harsk and the other iconics tower over her.
The redcap is another one I'd add, the mini looks tiny sized rather than small, it should be the same size as a goblin.

I wouldn't call the redcap problematic, not all small creatures are the same size. I actually like the redcap as is.

When it comes to Seelah, I just imagine her being a short human, again, not all humans have exactly the same height. I know that this doesn't necessarily match her artwork, where she is shorter than most but taller than Amiri.

Fair enough, though I still find those two a bit too small, varying size or not.

I'm also in the like it camp with the redcap. In fact it's one of my favourite minis, of course they're one of my favourite monsters so I was predisposed to liking the mini

I have a question for those who subscribe to the Adventure Path. Are the PDF copies you receive as one of the benefits of your subscription watermarked with Paizo or Pathfinder on each page?

I have a question for those who subscribe to the Adventure Path. Are the PDF copies you receive as one of the benefits of your subscription watermarked with Paizo or Pathfinder on each page?

No. They're watermarked with your name, email address, and order number.

-Skeld

EDIT: And the date you personalized/downloaded it.

Pigraven wrote:

I have a question for those who subscribe to the Adventure Path. Are the PDF copies you receive as one of the benefits of your subscription watermarked with Paizo or Pathfinder on each page?

No. They're watermarked with your name, email address, and order number.

-Skeld

EDIT: And the date you personalized/downloaded it.

Thanks for answering.

Are these watermarks obtrusive? Are they one of those that appear across the entire page?

I recently purchased the entire Curse of the Crimson Throne set off ebay, including the somewhat rare second book. My buddy had recently given me the PDF files to look through and determine whether I wanted to make the purchase and run the campaign. When he gave me the usb with them he said "these aren't watermarked."

I didn't know what me meant, but it occurred to me that when you get them from Paizo they must be watermarked. I really don't care about watermarks as long as they aren't obtrusive or distracting when looking at the content on the screen.

I'm about to sign up for the Adventure Path subscription, and if I enjoy it I will consider other such subscriptions. I'm the type of DM that likes having a book in his hand when running a campaign, but that isn't necessary for things like the Campaign Setting and Player Companion pieces.

I've always considered that part of paying the extra couple dollars Paizo charges for the ongoing subscriptions is for the convenience of receiving the PDF files in a timely manner. But if those PDF files are cluttered with watermarks, it wouldn't really be a benefit, right? It appears there are other ways to obtain them without said marks. With that being the case, I think it would make more sense to just wait and purchase material totaling $100.00 every two months (around $50.00 per month for the three subscriptions I'd consider) from one of the third-party vendors that offers free shipping with orders of that amount or more.

There is no legal way to obtain our PDFs without watermarks.

They are designed to be very unobtrusive. They're in a tiny font, in a low-key shade, at the very top and bottom of each page.