RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Fantastic! I never got around to making the time to participate in the playtest, but from the looks of this blog post, the playtest process must have been a huge success.
So bravo to both the Paizo staff and the community! Can't wait to see the final product!
I can't wait for the 2nd play test, I hope it is soon.
I also hope they include Dragon, Magical Beast, and Aberation types since I would allows these over Construct and Undead.
I really enjoyed this playtest and I really like this point system.
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So, anybody else looking at that rat fella waiting for him to break into, "A fair...is a ver-itable smorgasbord..."
So we're going to be able to play'Army Men' with this?..
I have to ask, will the dragon races have breasts?
"Has breasts" is probably an expensive racial option. ;-)
Good. Was a really good playtest.
Now, paizo neeed just accept that the core races are not balanced, and will never be (unless if redesigned). Also, once each race will always favor one or other class, they must not be balanced. You folks just need to give the racial abilities the correct costs (is not easy, but you're there to this XD).
Hey there folks,
To be clear, this is the only round of playtest we are having on this particular rules system. Thank you for participating.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Will there be a playtest on other material from the ARG.
(It's clear Race creation gets one playtest round by your wording and no more, but does not exclude anything else)And I agree with Bruno Mares, it was a good playtest.
Darn no more playtest for the race building:(
If there is another playtest for the Advanced races book that is not the race building stuff then what would it be?
Creative Director
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Darn no more playtest for the race building:(
If there is another playtest for the Advanced races book that is not the race building stuff then what would it be?
It's my understanding that we won't be playtesting anything else from the book.
And I'm pretty sure that Paizo agrees that the core races aren't all equally "balanced." They're close, but presenting them as equal in point value is something that we're no longer 100% committed to.
Not sure exactly how it'll all play out, but the feedback from the playtest was HUGELY helpful in that regard. Thanks, all! :-)
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I just wanted to say, Darkholme ftw on this playtest! His "What is a feat worth?" thread shed a whole lot of light on RP pricing. I think if the designers can get the right price for a fixed feat, they have a great gauge now on how they should price everything else.
I am, of course, leaving out dozens that also put in amazing work. I'd encourage anyone who thinks someone else did a great job, say it now.
I endorse Umbral Reavers' idea of variable costs rather than trying to shoe horn in at 10, 20, etc.
Please check the Quadruped entry! It should be for a four legged critter, but is defined as a centaur-like creature.
ZombieMike and others have done yeomans' work in this field before. Please copy as much as they'll let you.
I am so glad this is being done!
I'm really glad the devs didn't let all of the harsh negativity get to them. I know that in the midst of all that complaining a lot of us came across as "butt-hurt" in voicing our concerns. It's awesome that Paizo takes it in stride and listens to the message rather than the tone.
Stoked for the release of this book.
Are there going to be more options added that we didn't get to see in the playtest, or was the playtest mostly 'finished' in that regard?
Thank you for allowing us to be part of it all, Paizo. :D
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Creative Director
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I'm really glad the devs didn't let all of the harsh negativity get to them. I know that in the midst of all that complaining a lot of us came across as "butt-hurt" in voicing our concerns. It's awesome that Paizo takes it in stride and listens to the message rather than the tone.
Stoked for the release of this book.
Are there going to be more options added that we didn't get to see in the playtest, or was the playtest mostly 'finished' in that regard?
I strongly suspect there'll be more options added, since there are entire races that we haven't revealed to the public yet, such as four new races from the Dragon Empires...
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I strongly suspect there'll be more options added, since there are entire races that we haven't revealed to the public yet, such as four new races from the Dragon Empires...
<Fans self>
Woo-hoo!
I loved the spirit folk from the original Oriental Adventures (and the rat-dudes from the 3.X version were neat, as well). I doubt the new races will be Korobokuru or Vanara or whatever, but it should be interesting to see what does make the cut.
Some sort of kitsune or naga-folk could be awesome...
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Even as this draws to a close it leaves me at least with a fun now way to layout campaigns.
Stats: Low, Standard, High, Epic fantasy
Race: Standard, Advanced, Monstrous
Wealth: Low, Standard, High fantasy
Progression (Exp): Slow, Medium, Fast
Fun :D
It makes me want to put together a really high end (Epic, Monstrous, High, Fast) game and maybe throw in some Gestalt class variant just put well and truly over the top.... Me thinks I've been re-watching None Piece too much.
Please please please re-examine racial weaknesses and broaden both the methods with which they are implemented, and the types that are available. I know I'm not the only one who feels this is something that needs examination, even if my thread on the subject didn't get hundreds of replies like Dragonkin did. ;)
I strongly suspect there'll be more options added, since there are entire races that we haven't revealed to the public yet, such as four new races from the Dragon Empires......I loved the spirit folk from the original Oriental Adventures (and the rat-dudes from the 3.X version were neat, as well). I doubt the new races will be Korobokuru or Vanara or whatever, but it should be interesting to see what does make the cut.
Some sort of kitsune or naga-folk could be awesome...
The back of the ARG playtest breaks down the costs for the vishkanya, vanara, and catfolk which all seem to be new(-ish), and the first two are very Tian-themed. And one of the bestiary entries for Jade Regent #1 or #2 references the kitsune in the DE Gazetteer. So that's probably 3 out of the 4 new races James is teasing about.
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Creative Director
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The back of the ARG playtest breaks down the costs for the vishkanya, vanara, and catfolk which all seem to be new(-ish), and the first two are very Tian-themed. And one of the bestiary entries for Jade Regent #1 or #2 references the kitsune in the DE Gazetteer. So that's probably 3 out of the 4 new races James is teasing about.I strongly suspect there'll be more options added, since there are entire races that we haven't revealed to the public yet, such as four new races from the Dragon Empires......I loved the spirit folk from the original Oriental Adventures (and the rat-dudes from the 3.X version were neat, as well). I doubt the new races will be Korobokuru or Vanara or whatever, but it should be interesting to see what does make the cut.
Some sort of kitsune or naga-folk could be awesome...
Actaully... the vishkanya and the vanara are more Vudra themed.
The four races I'm teasing are the samsarans, the wayangs, the nagaji, and the kitsune. The fifth core non-human race in Tian Xia are the tengus; everyone knows about them!
The back of the ARG playtest breaks down the costs for the vishkanya, vanara, and catfolk which all seem to be new(-ish), and the first two are very Tian-themed. And one of the bestiary entries for Jade Regent #1 or #2 references the kitsune in the DE Gazetteer. So that's probably 3 out of the 4 new races James is teasing about.Actaully... the vishkanya and the vanara are more Vudra themed.
The four races I'm teasing are the samsarans, the wayangs, the nagaji, and the kitsune. The fifth core non-human race in Tian Xia are the tengus; everyone knows about them!
You fell into my plot and revealed them! [Stewie]"Victory is mine!"[/Stewie] :)
In my defense, the vanara were in the 3.0 Oriental Adventures. But yeah, I completely mixed up the vishkanya. :/
Also, the ARG playtest also mentions the ratfolk subtype, so something similar to the Nezumi are probably coming too.
Please say there'll be some kind of "four-armed" option.
We likes us some Tharks, Thri-Kreen, and Djangs!
Please say there'll be some kind of "four-armed" option.
We likes us some Tharks, Thri-Kreen, and Djangs!
Four arms will make it only a matter of time before some crazy player starts tryin' to TWF with two-bladed swords. Not that it stops them now, but... just sayin'.
Four arms will make it only a matter of time before some crazy player starts tryin' to TWF with two-bladed swords. Not that it stops them now, but... just sayin'.Please say there'll be some kind of "four-armed" option.
We likes us some Tharks, Thri-Kreen, and Djangs!
EXACTLY MY POINT. Although I prefer quad-wielding broadswords. :D
...but seriously, if a player is willing to invest in feat trees and prestige classes and so forth to achieve this end, why the heck not.
Four arms will make it only a matter of time before some crazy player starts tryin' to TWF with two-bladed swords. Not that it stops them now, but... just sayin'.Please say there'll be some kind of "four-armed" option.
We likes us some Tharks, Thri-Kreen, and Djangs!
EXACTLY MY POINT. Although I prefer quad-wielding broadswords. :D
...but seriously, if a player is willing to invest in feat trees and prestige classes and so forth to achieve this end, why the heck not.
I have no idea how one would ever accomplish that without making there be a world of unbalance. But it's always fun to try no?
Four arms will make it only a matter of time before some crazy player starts tryin' to TWF with two-bladed swords. Not that it stops them now, but... just sayin'.Please say there'll be some kind of "four-armed" option.
We likes us some Tharks, Thri-Kreen, and Djangs!
EXACTLY MY POINT. Although I prefer quad-wielding broadswords. :D
...but seriously, if a player is willing to invest in feat trees and prestige classes and so forth to achieve this end, why the heck not.
I have no idea how one would ever accomplish that without making there be a world of unbalance. But it's always fun to try no?
Back in the Dark Sun 2nd edition days I had two thri kreen gladiators specialised in TWF which used darts, as AD&D allowed 4 darts per hand that was a total of 32 darts flung at an enemy! One world of pain and one unbalanced game! But still enjoyable none the less!
Four arms will make it only a matter of time before some crazy player starts tryin' to TWF with two-bladed swords. Not that it stops them now, but... just sayin'.Please say there'll be some kind of "four-armed" option.
We likes us some Tharks, Thri-Kreen, and Djangs!
EXACTLY MY POINT. Although I prefer quad-wielding broadswords. :D
...but seriously, if a player is willing to invest in feat trees and prestige classes and so forth to achieve this end, why the heck not.
Dude. They could be mounted, and like...
Wield four lances. With Pounce.
...
I kind of want to see that, now.
I'm glad to hear that Paizo got a lot of constructive testing out of this! I hadn't posted up anything, but the playtest was something of a hot topic amongst myself and my gaming group.
A bit of friendly advice: I'd suggest looking at the benefits offered by a variety of things already in the system to help with pricing. A 5 resistance to an element should definitely be expensive, as should upgrading it to resistance 10. That's a slotless version of a least resistance ring, worth about 20000 gold. An item that gives a +5 to a single skill is far cheaper than that, and I was very surprised to see that the two were priced about the same, only the skill bonus was a +2. Natural armor +1 for example is roughly as good as the Dodge feat. It's priced at 2 points, which is reasonable. Getting more on top of that is still just as powerful, it shouldn't be any cheaper. I think you've really got to pump up the costs on non-standard ability scores. Those can influence a lot more of a character's abilities than even a single feat, and the general populace knows it, hence why they are afraid to allow non-standard races with non-standard ability scores.
I'm glad to hear that the new idea is to be honest with the stats of the races as they are, and that there's a lot of cool original content going in. I hope that you can still browse some of the hot spots in the forums from time to time to get a good idea of what things people catch even after the playtest is over, since they'll still be playing around with the mechanics.
I will be a bit unprofessional for a bit here to express one idea: The tengu racial proficiency? That is NOT 3 points. It is not more, either. The player's actual benefit from the ability is one, maybe two, proficiencies in a specialized section of weapons, or minimal benefit if they are a caster. When you have the option to pay 2 points and either get proficiency in ALL martial weapons and immunity to effects that target humanoids (native outsider) or proficiency in any weapon you craft (ratfolk), then I fail to see how either of those provide less benefit than the tengu swordmaster ability. In fact, I'm fairly sure they both provide more.
Anyway, that aside, I know you've got a lot on your plate and a lot to playtest! Have fun with this, and have a great release!
Four arms will make it only a matter of time before some crazy player starts tryin' to TWF with two-bladed swords. Not that it stops them now, but... just sayin'.Please say there'll be some kind of "four-armed" option.
We likes us some Tharks, Thri-Kreen, and Djangs!
EXACTLY MY POINT. Although I prefer quad-wielding broadswords. :D
...but seriously, if a player is willing to invest in feat trees and prestige classes and so forth to achieve this end, why the heck not.
Phraint's could be making a come back in my games..indeed a lot of stuff from the Arduin Grimoires would be useful ..Kill Kitten swarms anyone?
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Will "dragon" be the only new type added? Could we see Aberrations and Oozes(see the Squole) supported as well?
I was hoping we'd see another round of testing, partially to get a better feel for where the system was heading and if any additions would help me make my races that couldn't be completed with the original rules.
I'm really glad pre-reqs are getting the ax here and there, but I hope the "some" in that statement means "most".
Will you guys keep checking this forum for any additional input?
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I just wanted to say, Darkholme ftw on this playtest! His "What is a feat worth?" thread shed a whole lot of light on RP pricing. I think if the designers can get the right price for a fixed feat, they have a great gauge now on how they should price everything else.
I am, of course, leaving out dozens that also put in amazing work. I'd encourage anyone who thinks someone else did a great job, say it now.
I greatly appreciate that praise, even if I'm a week late to the party.
I mentioned this a few times, and I didnt see it mentioned here on this blog post, but I sincerely hope they move away from the pre-packaged model on racial options, and let you take the individual components that comprise a package, to build your own packages (such as sizes without attribute modifiers, or races the same size that suffer one of the penalties of a size like -4 stealth, or whatever.)
I'm looking forward to reading the ARG, and I hope my contributions to this playtest made an impression on the Paizo devs.
The idea has alot of potential, but at the same time, it's a tricky topic. Savage Species did not do a very good job on the subject. Paizo is taking a different approach (and not necessarily the one I would have chosen), but I hope they manage to steer clear of the pitfalls, which many of us pointed out during the playtest.
~DH
One question to clearify something, just as an example the only way to give a race scent is for the races starting (RP) to be Advanced (20 points) correct? or is it possable to give a standard race (RP 10) scent?
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One question to clearify something, just as an example the only way to give a race scent is for the races starting (RP) to be Advanced (20 points) correct? or is it possable to give a standard race (RP 10) scent?
Under the rules presented in the playtest, you GM has to be okay with you building an advanced race.
However, you dont have to use all of your points.
If the GM is cool with you having scent but doesnt want you to be more powerful, you can make a 10pts advanced race.
But whether or not your character will still be a balanced 10 pt char, and whether or not the abilities you took will make the game more complicated for your gm (he has to take scent into accound when designing the plot, or "challenges" may not challenge you at all), is supposedly less reliable.
Points wise, you can make a 10pt advanced race, and youll probably be close to the power of the other races. But they are less certain of it.
Personally, I'd recommend not using the playtest, and waiting until they fix it. Many of us found lots of problems in the playtest and pointed them out.
I hadn't realized the playtest had ended already. I thought I had more time. A few questions, then, if I can still ask them:
Was there ever an official clarification of the catfolk race? They're obviously not supposed to be paying 3 RP for Low-light vision. I know the issue was brought up, but had the devs ever given a response to that that I missed or not?
Were they ever going to introduce other favored class options for the other races in the game (aasimar paladins, dhampyr rogues, tiefling witches, etc.)? For that matter, were they ever going to introduce favored class options for the Magus?
What about Large-size Cavaliers or Samurai (let alone Quadrupedal Cavaliers or Samurai)? What are they going to do for mounts (hoping for an alternate class feature so they don't have to worry about mounts and further hoping that this alternate class feature can also benefit races we already use)?
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I also didn't realize the playtest had even come out, let alone ended... until today. I didn't get any e-mail or anything from Paizo about a playtest that I've seen in my inbox, and slightly annoyed at that. Checked my trash bin for it, too. No word of it. But reading through the playtest brought up some questions for me.
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Vishkanya--
racial abilities: Weapon Familiarity
What is their weapon familiarity with? It's not in either Bestiary...
Now, I do have to say that I tend to powergame just a little, and the dear boyfriend is the poster child for powergaming, so I may be slightly biased on the above point. But I feel very strongly about this, and truly believe that my solution is more fair and sensible. It's just LOGICAL that the more important stats should be worth less race points if there is a penalty to something as crucial as saves, which half the game is based on.
Specifically regarding Catfolk, the wis penalty kind of doesn't make sense to me, either. Cats are good at perception, survival, and heck, I'm sure they're good at heal checks because of their innate empathy-- all wisdom-based skills. I'd like to see an int or str penalty instead because it makes more sense for the nature OF cats and therefore makes sense for humanized versions.
Rationalization: cats are fast and sleek but not beefy, and the fact that cats don't have an extensive repertoire of skills other than those wis-based skills and acrobatics. Climb is only valid if they have claws, and I imagine human cats to not really have them since they get no natural attacks.
Edit for addition:
also:
Sahuagin--
Ability scores:
+2 strength
+2 dex
+2 constitution
+4 intelligence
-2 charisma
+4 intelligence? Shark-people aren't that intelligent, in theory. But the array seems correct: "Pick a mental or physical ability scores. Members get +2 to all these scores, and a +4 to one score of the other type, and -2 to one ability of that type.
I'd propose to give them a standard +2 Strength (sharks are strong) +2 wisdom (survival and perc is high, heal is needed to not eat something sick) and a -2 charisma or int... because face it, sharks don't have personalities, and their skills are really limited.
Or mixed weakness +2 str, -2 dex (out of water= clumsy. Even in water, their maneuverability isn't as good as say, a dolphin or even a seal, as they tend to make wider turns and are REQUIRED to keep moving constantly or else they'd die) +2 wisdom, -4 int for their limited skillset that comes with being nature's killing machine.
Playtesting this as written, despite my misgivings, but sticking the player on a slow xp progression in Jade Regent. The others are playing base races are on fast and the advanced race playtesters on medium.
(edits for spelling errors and general thought organization. It's pretty late at night for me. x.x)
That Sahuagin stats, I would move the +4 from int to Wisdom. The shark itself is a highly attuned sensing machine. (I'm most fond of the Hammerhead for its sensory capabilities among its shark kin)
When I did the Rakasta for my campaign, I almost was tempted to give them the -2 to Wisdom, but for the reasons stated above (skills) I went with Charisma instead, because I gave them a sprawling empire nearly a thousand years ago, and the race went from rulers to nomads that lived on the fringes of civilization and were generally anti-social.
Daggone it.
I didn't even realize the playtest had started until yestreday. So, I downloaded it and posted some stuff, etc. Now, I find out it is already over and I will need to wait until something like April.
:(
Is there a way for me to still get the playtesting rules document? I would just like to have it so i can have a preview of what is coming with the book.
EDIT: Forget I asked. I found it. Should've looked first and asked questions later.
The Fetchling and Suli are more powerful then the Aasimar.
The Fetchling and Suli are more powerful then the Aasimar.
The Aasimar doesn't have an attribute penalty though.
The Aasimar doesn't have a physical stat bonus ether. Also they onl get wis and cha.
The Suli has energy resistance 5 for acid, cold, electricity, and fire. He can add 1d6 energy damage to his unarmed strike/melee weapons for 1 round per level. He has a bonus str and cha and racial bonuses to diplomacy and sense motive with only an int penalty.
The Fetchlings have a bonus to dex and cha, but only a wis penalty, they have darkvision and low-light vision, cold/electrical resistance 5, increased miss chance in low light conditions, spell-like abilities that improve as they level(1/day disguise self, 9th level-shadow walk, 13th level-plane shift).
Curses. This was my first playtesting chance, and I missed it. Agree with the comments generally though - after a few test builds, the book seems as balanced as something so variable can be.
And no, half-construct, half-undead PCs aren't broken.
Got to keep an eye open for the next playtest.