Pathfinder Beginner Box Announced for November

Friday, March 20, 2020

New players will soon be able to take their first steps into an amazing world of fantasy adventure! Unveiled for November 2020, the Pathfinder Beginner Box will contain everything you need to learn how to play the Pathfinder, including rules to create your own fantasy hero and tools to make your own amazing stories.

Will you be a courageous fighter, charging headfirst into battle, or a sly rogue, moving quietly to strike at foes from the shadows? Maybe you will be a knowledgeable wizard, wielding incredible arcane spells or a wise and pious cleric, using the power of your deity to shape the world for the better. It is all up to you!

Inside you will find a rich toolbox, filled with everything you need to get started, including rules for character generation, an introductory adventure, guidelines to build your own campaign, character sheets, a full-color map, character pawns, and dice. This deluxe box set will be the ideal introduction to the Pathfinder, leading the way to a lifetime of adventure!

The Pathfinder Beginner Box will include:

  • An 80-page Hero's Handbook, including rules for character generation, a solo adventure, skills, spells, and equipment.
  • A 96-page Game Master's Handbook, containing an introductory adventure, over 20 pages of monsters, rules for building your own adventure, and magic items.
  • Four premade characters so you can jump right into the action and four blank character sheets if you want to make your own hero.
  • Over 100 character and monster pawns to use on the full-color double-sided adventure map.
  • Four game reference cards to help players remember their actions.
  • A complete set of polyhedral dice, including a d20, d12, d10, d8, d6, and d4.
For a glimpse of what’s to come, check out the Starfinder Beginner Box.

Adventures Ahead!

Aaron Shanks,
Marketing and Media Manager

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Tags: Pathfinder Pathfinder Beginner Box Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Pathfinder Second Edition
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Silver Crusade

The box is looking great, however I have a question. Will this product be using the full PFS2 ruleset or a limited ruleset like previous products?
For example, apparently previous Beginner's Boxes remove some parts of the rules like swift actions and attacks of opportunity, and I would personally love the introductory product features the "normal" ruleset (mostly so I can recommend it as a product for new players).


Excited about this! I really hope this help spread PF2 which is a great system.

What level will the Hero's Handbook go up to?

Might want to include Hero Point tokens =D

Paizo Employee Marketing & Media Manager

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Thanks for your questions. The Pathfinder Beginner Box is in the design phase and more product details will be released in future months. We have stated all we can officially announce at this time. But you never know, the design team my pop in with some early glimpses. That's the beauty and mystery of the Paizo Forums.


Oh boy oh boy, I love the beginner box ranges. For starters it's always a good story to run ppl through again and again without getting bored with it/its flexible enough to always change up

and second it'll help get more ppl into pf2. I'm happy with it, and seeing a lot less resistance due to "playtest hangover" from my friends, so I'm running trials for them and keeping the ppl who do wanna play.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Excellent news. A lot of people I know where put off by the huge Rulebook but when I’ve put together a basic scenario plus pregens for them they have picked up the rules quickly, enjoyed it and have subsequently (in most cases) gone on to buy the main Rulebook so they can create characters of their own.

If this is anything like the PF1 and beginner boxes it should really help get new people involved.


I would possibly suggest 2 D20s. Especially if you are including Advantage and Disadvantage rolls.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm sure people will compare this to the 5e Starter Set, but I'd like to bring up what I think is the best dang intro product I've seen in the RPG industry: Star Wars: Age of Rebellion Beginner Game.

The box comes with pregenerated characters, a bunch of tokens, specialized dice (FFG's Star Wars uses dice with weird symbols on them), and a couple of poster maps. It also features an adventure that introduces various rules and concepts in a step-by-step fashion that also feels completely natural, and a rule book that expands on the rules as introduced in the adventure.

But the best part isn't actually in the box - it's on FFG's website, and provides a continuation of the scenario in the adventure. The adventure in the beginner box is about the PCs infiltrating and taking over an off-the-books Imperial listening post that a Moff is keeping as his own secret, using intel gathered there to gain advantages in the Imperial political system. Once that is done, the web enhancement takes over... now the PCs have to figure out how to keep the base secret, get the assistance of natives and colonists in the area to run and defend the base, acquire materiel to keep the base running and repair things, and all sorts of good things like that. The adventure structure was a mix of open and linear – basically, a set of goals is presented that the PCs could deal with as they chose, and another set of events is presented for mixing things up a little. It is, bar none, the most fun I've had running a game, and my players seemed to enjoy it a lot too.

So that would be a good target to aim for when designing this new Beginner Box.


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Awesome!


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Staffan Johansson wrote:

I'm sure people will compare this to the 5e Starter Set, but I'd like to bring up what I think is the best dang intro product I've seen in the RPG industry: Star Wars: Age of Rebellion Beginner Game.

The box comes with pregenerated characters, a bunch of tokens, specialized dice (FFG's Star Wars uses dice with weird symbols on them), and a couple of poster maps. It also features an adventure that introduces various rules and concepts in a step-by-step fashion that also feels completely natural, and a rule book that expands on the rules as introduced in the adventure.

But the best part isn't actually in the box - it's on FFG's website, and provides a continuation of the scenario in the adventure. The adventure in the beginner box is about the PCs infiltrating and taking over an off-the-books Imperial listening post that a Moff is keeping as his own secret, using intel gathered there to gain advantages in the Imperial political system. Once that is done, the web enhancement takes over... now the PCs have to figure out how to keep the base secret, get the assistance of natives and colonists in the area to run and defend the base, acquire materiel to keep the base running and repair things, and all sorts of good things like that. The adventure structure was a mix of open and linear – basically, a set of goals is presented that the PCs could deal with as they chose, and another set of events is presented for mixing things up a little. It is, bar none, the most fun I've had running a game, and my players seemed to enjoy it a lot too.

So that would be a good target to aim for when designing this new Beginner Box.

I have no experience with the Star Wars game, but there is already a follow-up adventure that you can play when you finish the Beginner Box adventure (with an accompanying Flip-Mat). That might be something similar.


Pfred0 wrote:
I would possibly suggest 2 D20s. Especially if you are including Advantage and Disadvantage rolls.

I would also hope there is a second d10. Just because "generating numbers from 1-100" is useful.

There's probably not one in the Beginner's box, but eventually there's going to be a list with more than 20 things on it.


This looks exciting but the box needs to include a dry erase MAP as well. Ideally one side with an inn, city, or town and the other side blank to draw anything. Even a paper version would be better than nothing.

The original beginner box was used to introduce my brother and his kids to Pathfinder, it had everything. They have since moved on but it was a great introduction.

The biggest hurdle with this is that it needs to get into the mainstream stores, like Walmart and ToysRUs. This is where D&D made its sales. I barely saw the original beginner box in small local hobby and game stores.

Silver Crusade

Awesome! This would make for a solid Christmas gift.


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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Pfred0 wrote:
I would possibly suggest 2 D20s. Especially if you are including Advantage and Disadvantage rolls.

Why would they include new rule elements from a completely different game system here?

Dark Archive

Aaron Shanks wrote:
Thanks for your questions. The Pathfinder Beginner Box is in the design phase and more product details will be released in future months. We have stated all we can officially announce at this time. But you never know, the design team my pop in with some early glimpses. That's the beauty and mystery of the Paizo Forums.

The follow-up adventure "Troubles in Otari" says that the Beginner Box introduces the hometown of Otari.

Not much about Otari is known.

Personally i love well fleshed-out starting towns.
I understand there is a Pathfinder Society adventure taking place in that small coastal town.

I have three questions:

1) What population does Otari have (size-wise)?

2) Will you consider including a map of Otari or to offer one seperately?

3) Will you consider offering a sort of Gazetteer about Otari, not unlike the "Sandpoint, Light of the Lost Coast" campaign setting?

As the BB will likely/hopefully become the entry product for lots of new PF players and Game Masters, the more material detailing it there is, the better it will allow people to dive into the Lost Omens world, imo.


Pfred0 wrote:
I would possibly suggest 2 D20s. Especially if you are including Advantage and Disadvantage rolls.

Wut? Does PF2 have this game mechanic?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
OCEANSHIELDWOLPF 2.0 wrote:
Pfred0 wrote:
I would possibly suggest 2 D20s. Especially if you are including Advantage and Disadvantage rolls.
Wut? Does PF2 have this game mechanic?

It does not. Except maybe in some niche cases. And even then it isn't called advantage


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Joana wrote:
I have no experience with the Star Wars game, but there is already a follow-up adventure that you can play when you finish the Beginner Box adventure (with an accompanying Flip-Mat). That might be something similar.

That's interesting, though it does come at an additional cost (wheras the web enhancement to the Star Wars one is a free PDF).

The main thing I really loved about the Age of Rebellion beginner box + enhancement is that you start with what is essentially a tutorial that gradually introduces various game concepts and then follows that up with a very sandboxy experience.


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Zaister wrote:
Pfred0 wrote:
I would possibly suggest 2 D20s. Especially if you are including Advantage and Disadvantage rolls.
Why would they include new rule elements from a completely different game system here?

He means those abilities that say "can roll twice and use the better result" (a subset of fortune and misfortune effects).

In other words, Advantage and Disadvantage is in Pathfinder 2, just not using those convenient labels.


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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:


For example, apparently previous Beginner's Boxes remove some parts of the rules like swift actions and attacks of opportunity, and I would personally love the introductory product features the "normal" ruleset (mostly so I can recommend it as a product for new players).

It's easy to not include every little obscure action in a product like this.

That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea to omit relatively central mechanics the way swift attacks and attacks of opportunity was.

But there's A LOT of stuff in the CRB you don't need to burden newbs with. (And now I'm not talking the exclusion of classes, occult and primal spells, or even levels above X. I'm talking all the nitty gritty skill actions, a load of ancestral and class feats, and the like...)

Liberty's Edge

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Zapp wrote:

He means those abilities that say "can roll twice and use the better result" (a subset of fortune and misfortune effects).

In other words, Advantage and Disadvantage is in Pathfinder 2, just not using those convenient labels.

These are very rare in PF2, though. Rerolls (including some where you keep the better of the two) are a much more common Fortune effect than rolling twice at the same time, and do not require an extra die.

Indeed, True Strike, it's higher level cousin True Target, a single item, three Domain-based Focus Spells for Clerics, and one Focus Spell for Bards, are the only effects that work that way in the core rulebook (and all of those but True Strike and two of the Domain Spells are high enough level to not be included in a Beginner's Box).

That's not enough effects to make an extra die worth it. Really, the idea of including an extra die for, well, basically to make True Strike and a couple of very niche abilities slightly easier, is not a great call when examined.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
These are very rare in PF2, though. Rerolls (including some where you keep the better of the two) are a much more common Fortune effect than rolling twice at the same time, and do not require an extra die.

Require an extra die?

Just roll the same die twice and pick the better/worse result.

(I'm not the one talking about extra dice)

Liberty's Edge

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Zapp wrote:

Require an extra die?

Just roll the same die twice and pick the better/worse result.

(I'm not the one talking about extra dice)

The person who mentioned Advantage and Disadvantage was. I was merely pointing out that, regardless of such things technically existing in PF2, the initial suggestion was not warranted.

If you chime in on a discussion agreeing with or defending someone, you need to be prepared for other people to respond to them as well as you in responses to your defense. :)

Liberty's Edge

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Interesting... But not unexpected that this product would be released eventually.

I always found the graphical presentation of the first Beginner Box to be outstanding, and much better than the walls of text found in the D&D starter boxes, which basically used the same presentation and text found in the core rules without expansion or sidebars.
The folio character sheets with the summaries on the side and the clean, numbered boxes for the character sheet. The simple colour coded boxes for levelling. The simple encounters and clean formatting in the book. While not the prettiest RPG product, it was really easy to use.

At 176-pages described above... that's also a lot of book. That could be fairly intimidating.
Despite that, I hope there's more adventure in this product. While I get that part of the intent is to have people design their own adventures, the 14-page adventure in the first product was pretty anemic, and rather bland, being a straight dungeon crawl. Rather than just a series of rooms, starting with the players being assigned the quest and meeting some NPCs prior would emphasize that this is a roleplaying game and not a board game. Ditto some travel and a random encounter.
It's a little to easy to play the first session, beat the dragon, and call the game complete. Having enough story for 3-5 sessions would emphasis the continuing story aspect of the game. Especially if there's some mystery or unanswered questions the GM is then encouraged to invent on their own.

Although... the price was far to high. At a likely $39.99, you're almost better off just getting the Core Rulebook; it's beyond the easy price of many young gamers.

It's a product designed to be given as a gift. But that's problematic.
At $40, it's the "big gift" you give to a family member and not something you could casually buy. But by the time kids are old enough to play, they generally have wish lists of gifts, so you're ignoring their desires and giving them this instead.
It's awkward because if you have someone in your life you're willing to drop $40 to gift this box to... you could also just play with them.

It's expensive as a trial product: where you're not sure if someone will even like the game. And then requiring another expensive product to continue.

A starter box works better in the $15-25 price range. Something comparable in price to a youth/ family board game and not a hobby board game. Where youths can afford it themselves and try out the game, without having to save for weeks. And the price point is small enough that you can buy it as a secondary gift, buy it on a non-birthday, or give it to secondary relations like nieces. Where you can afford to eat the money if they don't like the game.
That's a price small enough parents might buy it on a whim because they heard about these games.

Silver Crusade

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At the price you’re just gonna get an empty box.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Unless you're Wizards of the Coast and you can use your Infinite Resources feat to sell at as a massive loss leader. Heck, I think that at 40 USD Paizo is still selling it at a loss, just like they did with PF1 Beginner Box.


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Next time you get a chance, to to the board game section of any store and look at the price tags. With the exception of the classics that they've been selling for 100+ years and only need some dice and one piece of laminated cardboard, every game is $40+. Some even run closer to $60.

$40 is more than fair.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I am glad this will be almost a year one product for 2e. Even though I have only run the BB adventure for 1e twice the pawns and map I still use and I have actually worked the BB adventure and its suggested follow ups into being part of RotR and the greater Sandpoint story.

My hope for this box is that the majority of the pawns are different than the ones for 1e, it would be a good opportunity to show off some unique and crazy Paizo monsters and not go with boring tropes like orcs and wolves.

Liberty's Edge

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I'm not talking $50 hobby board games from your niche FLGS. Or some extra fancy Schmidt board game full of props and magnets.

I was just at a WalMart a few weeks ago and an Indigo before that, looking for prices on Operation for my 9yo son. There's quite a lot of board games going for $15 and less. $25 would be at the upper end of many of them.

That's about the price I'm willing to drop on a niece for throw-away gift. Or what a grandparent might give a granddaughter as a side present in addition to something they want.

Heck, it could even go down as high as $30, which is the price Modiphius' Star Trek starter box sells for and the FFG Star Wars Beginner's Boxes whenever they're in stock. Or even the Cyberpunk Red quickstart.

But $40 seems excessive and indulgent.

*

A lot of price increase comes from the "Over 100 character and monster pawns to use on the full-color double-sided adventure map." Which are a nice deluxe accessory, but really knock-up the price of the package.
Ditto the intimidating 170+ pages of rulebook.

This is a big, deluxe starter box. And needlessly so.

This doesn't need to exist as the means of getting new people into roleplaying in general, because that's the job of the market leader and Twitch streams. Mostly streamed games.

This product exists for two purposes now:
1) To get inexperienced gamers into Pathfinder and playing as soon as possible.
2) To let experienced gamers try Pathfinder quickly, see if the system for them.

With 1) you want that to be a nice low price-point item, because you don't wants youths to have to save too long to buy the product themselves. The more the spend on the starter box the longer until they buy the rest of the rules.
With 2) you also want to keep the price low. Because if it's too much of a hurdle, they'll skip the box and go to the full game, or just skip the system altogether.

It's basically the demo of the game. Something simple and bare bones, so the PDF can be given away for free or basically free. The higher the price is the more this product is effectively adding a barrier to entry rather than taking it away.


Table-top role-playing games is a very cheap hobby. Yes, you need to spend a couple of hundred dollars, but then you're set for years.

Liberty's Edge

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I'll post here what I did on Facebook when Know Direction announced this:

"My biggest question for Paizo's Beginner's Box products has always been "Why the delay?" It seems like a product like this could really help skyrocket the sales of the line, especially at the beginning of that product line. Personally, the long delay for the Starfinder Beginner's Box made me less inclined to buy it... and without it, I was less invested in the Starfinder RPG altogether. Products like these are the gateway drug for tabletop RPGs; they should be at the forefront of the line!"


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This definitely looks like a good Christmas present.

Arnim Thayer wrote:

I'll post here what I did on Facebook when Know Direction announced this:

"My biggest question for Paizo's Beginner's Box products has always been "Why the delay?" It seems like a product like this could really help skyrocket the sales of the line, especially at the beginning of that product line. Personally, the long delay for the Starfinder Beginner's Box made me less inclined to buy it... and without it, I was less invested in the Starfinder RPG altogether. Products like these are the gateway drug for tabletop RPGs; they should be at the forefront of the line!"

My thought is "So that motivated buyers don't take this product away from potential buyers". Looking over the contents, I can say that there is nothing that I (an established buyer) already own, so I'm not going to buy it, and there is enough adjacent product in the market for me to buy.

If this were released closer to release, it would have been bought up by people who didn't need a beginner's box, but just wanted as much PF product as possible. A year later, it's going to get into the hands of new players and people who will be mentoring new players.

Silver Crusade

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Jester David wrote:

I'm not talking $50 hobby board games from your niche FLGS. Or some extra fancy Schmidt board game full of props and magnets.

I was just at a WalMart a few weeks ago and an Indigo before that, looking for prices on Operation for my 9yo son. There's quite a lot of board games going for $15 and less. $25 would be at the upper end of many of them.

That's about the price I'm willing to drop on a niece for throw-away gift.

... that explains a lot about your logic here.
Quote:
But $40 seems excessive and indulgent.
How is cheaper than the Core Rulebook for the main game excessive? Also we’re talking about tabletop rpgs, of course they’re indulgent.
Quote:
A lot of price increase comes from the "Over 100 character and monster pawns to use on the full-color double-sided adventure map." Which are a nice deluxe accessory, but really knock-up the price of the package.
Because they are a good incentive.
Quote:
Ditto the intimidating 170+ pages of rulebook.
2 different rulebooks, one for players, one for GMs. If people are completely turned off by a 90 page rulebook they wouldn’t really be the target audience anyway.
Quote:
This is a big, deluxe starter box. And needlessly so.
You expect people to get drawn in and play without visuals or rules?
Quote:
This doesn't need to exist as the means of getting new people into roleplaying in general, because that's the job of the market leader and Twitch streams. Mostly streamed games.
That’s an assumption you are having.
Quote:
It's basically the demo of the game. Something simple and bare bones, so the PDF can be given away for free or something.

Ah there we go.

Anywho the PDF will be $10 or $15.

Liberty's Edge

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Rysky wrote:
Jester David wrote:
This doesn't need to exist as the means of getting new people into roleplaying in general, because that's the job of the market leader and Twitch streams. Mostly streamed games.
That’s an assumption you are having.

I don't think it's remotely an assumption that online games have dramatically increased the number of people coming into the hobby and are now the main way new players are introduced to roleplaying games, followed closely by being introduced by friends and other established players.

Rysky wrote:
Jester David wrote:
It's basically the demo of the game. Something simple and bare bones, so the PDF can be given away for free or something.

Ah there we go.

Anywho the PDF will be $10 or $15.

Which is 2x to 3x more than it should be. IF it shouldn't be free, which is an argument that could be made.

(Or free with purchase via a QR or discount code in the box)

If this is really meant to introduce brand new people to Pathfinder, it should be as accessible as possible.

*

Here's the thing... I praised the last Beginner Box back in 2010 (or whenever it came out) comparing it favorably to the anemic offerings by Wizards of the Coast. Especially its designed and production values. And even rated the 5e Starter Set lower for not really pushing the bar like Paizo and it's Beginner Box. And defended the higher price as more value made for a better product...

But I never really bought the physical box either. I just used the PDFs.
Because it was a lot.
As much as an hardcover accessory (plus higher shipping).

Meanwhile, I bought a couple of the cheaper D&D boxes, especially when they were on sale on Amazon for $10 or $15, and just tossed them at kids in my school or donated them to a library or youth center. Because the price was disposable.

Silver Crusade

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Quote:
I don't think it's remotely an assumption that online games have dramatically increased the number of people coming into the hobby and are now the main way new players are introduced to roleplaying games, followed closely by being introduced by friends and other established players.
That’s not the assumption I was pointing out. Claiming this product was unnecessary and that it’s other’s jobs to do it is.
Quote:
Which is 2x to 3x more than it should be.
I don’t think this is the right hobby for you, if you’re expecting the art asserts to be $5 or free for a major product.
Quote:
Or free with purchase via a QR or discount code in the box)
And then people destroy the boxes to get the codes and that makes game stores very unhappy.
Quote:
If this is really meant to introduce brand new people to Pathfinder, it should be as accessible as possible.
And you don’t think Paizo has done that? This isn’t a direct money maker for them, they are very likely taking a hit on it in production. Making it free would mean an even bigger hit, and it’s just not viable.
Quote:
But I never really bought the physical box either. I just used the PDFs.

Then do so here.


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If you want a free option, that already exists in the form of the "Torment and Legacy" .pdf that's free on this website, and the free PF2E iconic character sheets you can get from the Community Use section. Use both of these in tandem, and you have your effective "free" option.

Heck, the full rule set and a large majority of the content in all of the books are available for free on Archives of Nethys. If people are concerned about being cost effective, just use the online resources instead.

But after demo'ing that, if the young'ins want something more, but don't want enough to pay for a full CRB, Bestiary, maps or even an Adventure Path, then they can try to use the Beginner's Box to hold them over, and then continue to play with "Troubles in Otari" later on if they liked it enough.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Here's my ask for this product, and it comes from using the PF1 Beginner's Box three times - once as a player, twice as a GM introducing new players to the game:

Assuming PF2's Beginner Box has similarly formatted folio style character sheets (which is excellent), please be sure to provide the GM with a page in their book that shows what the players are looking at. Not every sheet, but I want a page that shows what sections are labeled in what ways.

An example of how this looks during play:

"Ok, some goblins rush out of the bushes waving rusty swords and screaming obscenities at you. Roll initiative! You'll use your Perception which you can find... *GM flips to the reference page in their GM booklet*... at number "X" on your character sheet."

Later on, somebody has forgotten where their Strikes are listed and the GM can respond this way: "Sure, Bob, if you want to attack, you'll use one of your three actions. Your Strikes are listed near number... *GM flips back to the reference page*... near number "Y." *the GM now holds up the reference page while pointing to the right spot on the character sheet printed in the book*

Without such a reference, I'm always stealing the character sheet of the person closest to me so I can find where on the sheet the relevant numbers are, then I'm holding up somebody else's sheet and pointing to an area and saying "look there!" Or else I'm getting up every 2 minutes to look over somebody's shoulder and pointing directly at their sheet.

It would be great to be able to simply flip to a page I already have in the booklet I have in my hands, find the reference, call it out and point to it in view of all of the players.


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Jester David wrote:
Ditto the intimidating 170+ pages of rulebook.

Two rule books-

One is 80 pages has everything to make your character, meaning it needs a write up for 6 ancestries and 12 classes, plus skills and general/skill feats, spells, and equipment. If you hold ancestries and classes to two pages each, that's already 36 pages, almost half the book. It also has a solo adventure in it, so what 10 pages +/-? 80 sounds like a lot, but it's nothing.

Second is 96 pages, but that includes a whole adventure and 20 pages of monsters. So really only about 50 pages of rules.

Liberty's Edge

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Rysky wrote:
Quote:
Which is 2x to 3x more than it should be.
I don’t think this is the right hobby for you, if you’re expecting the art asserts to be $5 or free for a major product.

Why on Earth would they use new art and not recycled art?

Rysky wrote:
Quote:
Or free with purchase via a QR or discount code in the box)
And then people destroy the boxes to get the codes and that makes game stores very unhappy.

And yet WotC seems very comfortable giving out the Essentials Kit digitally for free with purchase AND a discount on the Player's Handbook.

It's doable. Free products and PDFs are tricky in books where codes can be removed, but are workable in sealed shrink-wrapped boxes that are harder to open.

Rysky wrote:
Quote:
If this is really meant to introduce brand new people to Pathfinder, it should be as accessible as possible.
And you don’t think Paizo has done that? This isn’t a direct money maker for them, they are very likely taking a hit on it in production. Making it free would mean an even bigger hit, and it’s just not viable.

It's not like I'm arguing they should keep the product the same as it is now but price it lower. I'm saying they should have been more restrained with the contents so they could sell the product for less.

Because no one should be denied the opportunity to play Pathfinder because they can't afford it. Because the introduction to gaming should be as cheap as possible. Because a big, fancy, expensive boxed set is gatekeeping that is telling people they need to be <--- well off to play the game.

There's room for deluxe fancy products. For Invisible Sun, the Borg Collector's Cube, the Beadle & Grimm boxes, and the Rise of the Runelords book (currently on display on my shelf). But the beginner boxes shouldn't be counted among those.

Silver Crusade

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Why on Earth would they use new art and not recycled art?
Why on earth would they not?
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And yet WotC seems very comfortable giving out the Essentials Kit digitally for free with purchase AND a discount on the Player's Handbook.
Where are they giving away free PDFs? To my knowledge WotC are PDF adverse for their stuff.
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It's doable. Free products and PDFs are tricky in books where codes can be removed, but are workable in sealed shrink-wrapped boxes that are harder to open.
And harder to sell, if people can’t look into a book to read it first they’re less inclined to purchase it.
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It's not like I'm arguing they should keep the product the same as it is now but price it lower. I'm saying they should have been more restrained with the contents so they could sell the product for less.
What could they remove? You need the rulebooks and the dice. And the pawns or some stand in for enemies and NPCs. The Beginner Box enables a complete adventure, not “you have a piece so go buy or supply your own other pieces to be able to play.”
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Because no one should be denied the opportunity to play Pathfinder because they can't afford it. Because the introduction to gaming should be as cheap as possible. Because a big, fancy, expensive boxed set is gatekeeping that is telling people they need to be <--- well off to play the game.

First, The ENTIRE P2 rule set is online FOR FREE courtesy of Archives of Nethys.

Second, the Beginner’s Box is CHEAPER than the Core rulebook.

How is that gatekeeping?

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There's room for deluxe fancy products. For Invisible Sun, the Borg Collector's Cube, the Beadle & Grimm boxes, and the Rise of the Runelords book (currently on display on my shelf). But the beginner boxes shouldn't be counted among those.

So what do you cut out from the “deluxe fancy” box that’s cheaper than the core rulebook for the actual game to lower the price to be acceptable to you while still containing everything one needs to run an adventure? Can’t cut the dice. Can’t cut the rulebooks. Can’t cut the maps. Can’t cut the pawns.


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Not .PDFs per say, but content relating to the Essentials Kit that you can download directly to your D&D Beyond account.

Which Paizo doesn't currently have an equivalent to, since they post all their rules and Adventurer's Tools content from their APs, for free on Archives of Nephys.

Again, this seems to be a problem of not getting what you want, which is an exceedingly cheap, if not free, gift you can casually buy and give away at your leisure. But sadly enough, tabletop games are not cheap, not by a long shot. And where Paizo offers free resources for homebrew campaigns to happen, they can't also offer a dirt cheap box too. They gotta get some money, and if all they're asking is $40 for two rule books, maps, dice, and a bunch of tokens, then I personally feel they're in their right to do so.

That wouldn't be gatekeeping. Gatekeeping would be to never release .PDFs of any of their products and hide nearly all online support for their system behind a singular website where you need to rebuy all the books you already own to get the benefits of accessing their contents in a website form.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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Jester David wrote:


And yet WotC seems very comfortable giving out the Essentials Kit digitally for free with purchase AND a discount on the Player's Handbook.

First, WotC isn't giving away the Essentials Kit digitally for free. You can use the code to unlock adventure content on D&D Beyond, but not the rules. And the discount on the Player's Handbook only gives you a non-PDF version of the book that comes at the same price as the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. So to get this great discount, you're still shelling out $40 (for the Essentials Kit and the digita PHB) while not getting the full game.

Secondly, what WotC does isn't necessarily workable for Paizo. D&D is on a different scale.

Thirdly, one of Paizo's major advantages over its competitors is the quality of its products. Releasing a low-quality Beginner's Box would not be leveraging one of the company's main advantages in the industry. Paizo's level of quality is a huge deal.

You brought up Operation as an example of a cheap game to prove this is doable while ignoring that Operation and similar games are mass produced at a much higher quantity and frankly have very low quality that wouldn't fly in the RPG industry.

In terms of people getting something for free, the entire Pathfinder rule set is online for free. To release the game at the price points you want, the company might as well just print off Archives of Nethys, which would make for a terrible introduction.

You're making the same mistakes that you did when you complained about the price of the Core Rulebook. Specifically, you're drawing comparisons to products in entirely different industries with no recognition of the differences in markets. By arguing for recycled art and low production values, you're asking Paizo to sacrifice one of their biggest advantages in the industry.

I fully expect you to dismiss these points out of hand as you have others on the thread. Regardless, you are ignoring many business realities and showcasing a misunderstanding of the RPG (and board game) market as a whole.

Now that I have that rant out of the way, I'm off to preorder two copies of this thing...


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Re:pricing considerations.

Pawns and dice are more expensive to include, but make a lot of sense as a thing to help people experience the game as a true starter set.

Another big consideration is that they're not counting on subscription numbers for this, so it's probably a smaller manufacturing run. Personally, I really appreciate it, because I got the PF1 Beginner's Box as part of my core subscription because I didn't pay attention to what was going to be shipped. It wasn't helpful to me as a PF1 pre-release subscriber, and I probably should have just given it away.

All that said, I'm not the target audience for this product. I suspect that's similar for most folks here unless they're regularly introducing new players to the game.


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New players will soon be able to take their first steps into an amazing world of fantasy adventure! Unveiled for November 2020, the Pathfinder Beginner Box will contain everything you need to learn how to play the Pathfinder, including rules to create your own fantasy hero and tools to make your own amazing stories.

KEKW

Someone sound the proofreading alarm!

Liberty's Edge

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Anyone who thinks that $40 USD for everything you need to run a game, with all the needed rules to get started in print form, plus dice, plus tokens, plus high-quality art, plus player cheat-sheets, plus attractive packaging - is too expensive - is TRULY a real-life jester. Somebody get the rotten fruit!

For the contents they're currently advertising (and are likely subject to change) I'm honestly shocked the product isn't at LEAST $49.99 if not $59.99.


I am surprised more RPGs haven't changed to custom dice. Those things are a license to print money.


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Themetricsystem wrote:

Anyone who thinks that $40 USD for everything you need to run a game, with all the needed rules to get started in print form, plus dice, plus tokens, plus high-quality art, plus player cheat-sheets, plus attractive packaging - is too expensive - is TRULY a real-life jester. Somebody get the rotten fruit!

For the contents they're currently advertising (and are likely subject to change) I'm honestly shocked the product isn't at LEAST $49.99 if not $59.99.

To be fair, there's a difference between "Good value for money" and "The right price point for the intended purpose." $40 for that stuff does sound like an appropriate price, but that doesn't mean that it's the right price if your goal is to get people to give Pathfinder a shot.

I don't think anyone is arguing that $40 is an unfair price. It might, however, be the wrong price.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If they don’t want to use pawns, maps, minis or tokens and can handle a lot of info at once they have Archives of Nethys for free. The only thing they’d need to buy would be dice or get a roller app.


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Rysky wrote:
If they don’t want to use pawns, maps, minis or tokens and can handle a lot of info at once they have Archives of Nethys for free. The only thing they’d need to buy would be dice or get a roller app.

Nethys is a good reference. It is, however, not very good at explaining the game to newbies or provide a good starting experience.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Pfred0 wrote:
I would possibly suggest 2 D20s. Especially if you are including Advantage and Disadvantage rolls.

I would also hope there is a second d10. Just because "generating numbers from 1-100" is useful.

There's probably not one in the Beginner's box, but eventually there's going to be a list with more than 20 things on it.

If they include a normal set of Dice there is 1 each: D4, D6, D8 D12, D20, D10 & D%(10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 00). The D% can actually be used as a 2nd D10.


krobrina wrote:
I am surprised more RPGs haven't changed to custom dice. Those things are a license to print money.

Let me just "mine" for a few more pythagorean solids?

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