Impossible Focus

[Purplefixer]

Where is it? There's no Focus Items in Impossible Magic! You have THREE Focus Heavy Casters (Necro, Summoner, Magus!) and no focus items to support them! You've gotta make sure your classes have:

- Core mechanics that don't overwhelm the game (necro is awfully close to being overwhelmingly powerful guys, the blood necro is healing 6-24hp per turn WHILE KILLING THINGS in my game!)
- Useable Multiclass Archetype (Magus is still BAD, Inventor is TERRIBLE)
- Item Support (Gate Attenuators anyone? You need focus items for everybody and good Apex choices for everybody! At the very least! Thematic specific items would be great as well, and specific magic item variants of every kind of non-magical item printed; Barricade Buster? Knuckle Dagger? Fortress Shield?)

You all might have ninja'd me in giving the Necromancer Flesh, Blood, Bone, and Spirit fascinations, but my 3pp has dedicated playtest and full item and archetype support! :p

We need reprints of the Necromancer's Athame and the Summoner's Hat.

When you print a Focused Item for the Magus, make sure it doesn't conflict with any of their necessary slots to get things done!

[Xenocrat]

There's another gear book on the schedule, Legacy of the Forge. You might get focused items there.

[Trixleby]

I want to see more relic sets, because I play world of warcraft and tier set bonuses are in my DNA at this point.

We need class specific sets that help them more! For fun. Also it's like something to look forward to, as you level, collecting more set pieces to fill out your relic set.

Just my two cents.

[Perpdepog]

Purplefixer wrote:

Where is it? There's no Focus Items in Impossible Magic! You have THREE Focus Heavy Casters (Necro, Summoner, Magus!) and no focus items to support them!

My guess is because two of them, the Eidolon cape for the summoner, and the Master Magus Ring for the, well, magus, already exist in Treasure Vault.

[QuidEst]

We are getting another big book o' items, so that would be a natural place to catch up on caster focus items.

[ornathopter]

I definitely hope the new book will have a kinetecist equipment set and an apex item or two.

[Old_Man_Robot]

I was honestly very surprised by the lack of focus item for the Necro. I kept thumbing through my copy assuming I had missed it.

[Playwars]

Today, I have learned that focus items exist XD

An athame sounds very cool though ! And yeah, the blood necromancer subclass seems to be significantly better than all the others. It's a bit too much self healing, which in turn makes the Reaper incredibly powerful. Perhaps some of that healing should be diverted to allies instead. I know I was seriously hesitating to make a Reaper for my first Necromancer game, because I wanted the blood fascination (doing a vampire theme), but also I'm a puppeteer and I really don't want to be in harm's way ? This kind of clashes with that. Like, a lot.

Don't get me wrong, you still take damage in the backlines, but in the other games I've played, with good party coordination, the casters/ranged don't take that much hurt. Which is the point of course.

[Finoan]

Purplefixer wrote:

necro is awfully close to being overwhelmingly powerful guys, the blood necro is healing 6-24hp per turn WHILE KILLING THINGS in my game!

At what play level, and how sustainably?

If we are talking 6-24 HP at level 20 (which is what it is sounding like with a minimum of 6), then that isn't really all that impressive or out of the norm. Flamekeeper Witch, many Champion reactions, and Amulet Thaumaturge all put out 12 points anti-damage each round at that level (and can do it on characters other than themselves - ones that aren't hiding in the backline trying not to get targeted).

* Either Resist All or Temp HP. Both are effectively preemptively healing before the damage occurs.

And if we are talking about low level play where 24 HP is going to be a nice amount of healing that can actually keep people alive while they are being actively attacked by enemies, then I am thinking that you have to be spending focus points on abilities - not just relying on destroying 1 thrall per round with the Thrall Charge cantrip. And you will very quickly run out of focus points trying to sustain that amount of healing. (which isn't even all that great of a healing amount for the cost of a focus point. Champion still does it better with Lay on Hands.)

So I am strongly suspecting that the 'game breaking power of Blood Fascination' is hyperbole.

But feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Show a practical build that is healing something near what Lay on Hands does at the same character level but without focus point cost.

[shroudb]

Finoan wrote:

Purplefixer wrote:

necro is awfully close to being overwhelmingly powerful guys, the blood necro is healing 6-24hp per turn WHILE KILLING THINGS in my game!

At what play level, and how sustainably?

If we are talking 6-24 HP at level 20 (which is what it is sounding like with a minimum of 6), then that isn't really all that impressive or out of the norm. Flamekeeper Witch, many Champion reactions, and Amulet Thaumaturge all put out 12 points anti-damage each round at that level (and can do it on characters other than themselves - ones that aren't hiding in the backline trying not to get targeted).

* Either Resist All or Temp HP. Both are effectively preemptively healing before the damage occurs.

And if we are talking about low level play where 24 HP is going to be a nice amount of healing that can actually keep people alive while they are being actively attacked by enemies, then I am thinking that you have to be spending focus points on abilities - not just relying on destroying 1 thrall per round with the Thrall Charge cantrip. And you will very quickly run out of focus points trying to sustain that amount of healing. (which isn't even all that great of a healing amount for the cost of a focus point. Champion still does it better with Lay on Hands.)

So I am strongly suspecting that the 'game breaking power of Blood Fascination' is hyperbole.

But feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Show a practical build that is healing something near what Lay on Hands does at the same character level but without focus point cost.

Tbf, mid-level necromancers and later should be able to sustain their focus points for most of the fight, with them getting 4-5 per combat, so I don't think it's fair to say they need to do that much healing without focus points.

But I guess for the person you're quoting, its also based on blood necro interaction with the new Moonweave armor rune (which isn't all that clear, but I can see it being allowed to be run in a lot of tables as it applies).

With that rune, from like level 9 and just 2 thralls dead per turn which is easily done, you are looking at 10 hp/turn and at 13 you could be looking at 18hp/turn. It's not lay on hands level, but as the OP stated, it's something that happens alongside the main effects of your spells, which is mainly doing damage simultaneously as you get that healing.

[Old_Man_Robot]

For clarification on the healing maths, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it should look like:

Level 1
- Thrall Healing: 1 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +0 HP
- Fast Healing: —

~ Healing Formula

1 HP × Thralls

Level 5
- Thrall Healing: 2 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +2 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: —

~ Healing Formula

4 HP × Thralls

Level 9
- Thrall Healing: 3 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +2 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: —

~ Healing Formula

5 HP × Thralls

Level 13
- Thrall Healing: 4 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +5 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: 6 HP/round
- Moonweave on Fast Healing: +5 HP (once)

~ Healing Formula

9 HP × Thralls
+ 6 HP/round Fast Healing
+ 5 HP once (Moonweave applied to Fast Healing)

Level 17
- Thrall Healing: 5 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +10 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: 8 HP/round
- Moonweave on Fast Healing: +10 HP (once)

~ Healing Formula

15 HP × Thralls
+ 8 HP/round Fast Healing
+ 10 HP once (Moonweave applied to Fast Healing)

Level 20
- Thrall Healing: 5 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +10 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: 10 HP/round
- Moonweave on Fast Healing: +10 HP (once)

~ Healing Formula

15 HP × Thralls
+ 10 HP/round Fast Healing
+ 10 HP once (Moonweave applied to Fast Healing)

This means, if we are comparing it to Lay on Hands in terms of in-combat effectiveness, Lay on Hands is the winner until 10th, then it starts to swing the other way, and healing output by the Necro just gets greater there after.

So, assuming a 10 round encounter where 1 Thrall is popped per round vs 3 full uses of Lay on Hands

By 20th we have:
- 260 HP Blood Necro (full build)
- 180 HP Lay On Hands (only)
Necromancer (+80)

[Xenocrat]

Moonweave applying to blood thralls looks like a big problem in mid to late levels. I strongly suggest interpreting it not to work, as do the bones, spirit, and flesh unions.

[Perpdepog]

Xenocrat wrote:

Moonweave applying to blood thralls looks like a big problem in mid to late levels. I strongly suggest interpreting it not to work, as do the bones, spirit, and flesh unions.

Another possible fix could be to limit the rune to healing its normal amount, or the amount healed by your healing effect, which ever is lower. That does make it less impressive for most fast healing-type effects, but on average you'll be missing out on, what, 3-4 HP?

[shroudb]

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

For clarification on the healing maths, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it should look like:

Level 1
- Thrall Healing: 1 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +0 HP
- Fast Healing: —

~ Healing Formula

1 HP × Thralls

Level 5
- Thrall Healing: 2 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +2 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: —

~ Healing Formula

4 HP × Thralls

Level 9
- Thrall Healing: 3 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +2 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: —

~ Healing Formula

5 HP × Thralls

Level 13
- Thrall Healing: 4 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +5 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: 6 HP/round
- Moonweave on Fast Healing: +5 HP (once)

~ Healing Formula

9 HP × Thralls
+ 6 HP/round Fast Healing
+ 5 HP once (Moonweave applied to Fast Healing)

Level 17
- Thrall Healing: 5 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +10 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: 8 HP/round
- Moonweave on Fast Healing: +10 HP (once)

~ Healing Formula

15 HP × Thralls
+ 8 HP/round Fast Healing
+ 10 HP once (Moonweave applied to Fast Healing)

Level 20
- Thrall Healing: 5 HP per Thrall
- Moonweave: +10 HP per Thrall heal
- Fast Healing: 10 HP/round
- Moonweave on Fast Healing: +10 HP (once)

~ Healing Formula

15 HP × Thralls
+ 10 HP/round Fast Healing
+ 10 HP once (Moonweave applied to Fast Healing)

This means, if we are comparing it to Lay on Hands in terms of in-combat effectiveness, Lay on Hands is the winner until 10th, then it starts to swing the other way, and healing output by the Necro just gets greater there after.

So, assuming a 10 round encounter where 1 Thrall is popped per round vs 3 full uses of Lay on Hands

By 20th we have:
- 260 HP Blood Necro (full build)
- 180 HP Lay On Hands (only)
Necromancer (+80)

Perpdepog wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

Moonweave applying to blood thralls looks like a big problem in mid to late levels. I strongly suggest interpreting it not to work, as do the bones, spirit, and flesh unions.

Another possible fix could be to limit the rune to healing its normal amount, or the amount healed by your healing effect, which ever is lower. That does make it less impressive for most fast healing-type effects, but on average you'll be missing out on, what, 3-4 HP?

Moonweave will only apply on the 1st tick of Fast healing either way. That's stated pretty clearly.

Quote:

Your armor bathes your wounds in the cool light of the moon. While wearing this armor, whenever you would be healed by a spell or magical effect, you recover an additional 2 Hit Points. You regain additional Hit Points from moonweave only the first time you regain HP from a given healing spell or effect, so a spell or effect that heals you repeatedly over a duration would restore additional Hit Points only once, when you’re first healed.

The only weird interaction is with the Blood necro, because IF one allows it (and that's a grey area due to missing Traits on the actual Blood necro ability) then each separate zombie death is a new instance.

[Alkarius]

Magus archetype is quite good IMO, esspecially now that they aren't wave casting.

[Tridus]

ornathopter wrote:

I definitely hope the new book will have a kinetecist equipment set and an apex item or two.

The Major Gate Attenuator is an apex item. Kineticist only really has one option unless they don't do Impulse attack rolls, so an alternative might be nice. But they do have one.

[The Raven Black]

Alkarius wrote:

Magus archetype is quite good IMO, esspecially now that they aren't wave casting.

Only for melee builds though.

[Playwars]

The Raven Black wrote:

Alkarius wrote:

Magus archetype is quite good IMO, esspecially now that they aren't wave casting.

Only for melee builds though.

I mean yeah. That's kind of like saying that maybe barbarian archetype isn't that great for spellcasters. A multiclass archetype is a sliver of that class, it's quite reasonable it would not encompass everything it can do nor fit everyone. Plus, only one out of the ten hybrid studies allow ranged spellstrike.

Besides, if you want ranged spellstrike, there's a dedicated archetype for it already in Player Core 2, eldritch archer.

[Trixleby]

Playwars wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Alkarius wrote:

Magus archetype is quite good IMO, esspecially now that they aren't wave casting.

Only for melee builds though.

I mean yeah. That's kind of like saying that maybe barbarian archetype isn't that great for spellcasters. A multiclass archetype is a sliver of that class, it's quite reasonable it would not encompass everything it can do nor fit everyone. Plus, only one out of the ten hybrid studies allow ranged spellstrike.

Besides, if you want ranged spellstrike, there's a dedicated archetype for it already in Player Core 2, eldritch archer.

Barbarian archetype could be funny on a reaper necromancer though.