[SPOILERS] Guilt of the Grave World is just terrible


Starfinder 2E Adventure Path General Discussion


Guilt of the Grave World is my first-ever AP. I don't know what I expected, but I expected something better than this.

Maybe I just don't "get" Paizo. I don't want whimsical giggle fests where we turn off our higher functions and go along for the ride. I want a STORY. I want to make characters have real feelings, actual RP moments that will change them. Characters should think about their actions and make meaningful decisions. Grave World is not that.

Chapter One: we open with seven separate exploration checks to get from Point A to Point B. That's called a time sink and I don't do it. Dice rolling and events must meaningfully advance the story, meaningfully promote roleplaying, or both. These exploration checks are trash.

We continue with a random Corpse Fleet attack when the PCs leave an asteroid station... except its a fight the PCs have to run from. Now: how often, in your experience, do heroic adventurers run from a conflict? They don't. And when our PCs inevitably fail, they're magically rescued by the dwarves, because we can't actually let the adventure progress to its natural conclusion. This disrespects my players' time and intelligence. They know deux ex machina when they see it.

Chapter Two: The PCs meet an Elebrian in Pact Port, but the narrative expressly forbids any possibility of the PCs getting the genetic sample they need right here. My PCs will drug her and take a blood sample, guaranteed. And frankly I'm fine with that, because it's clever. But no: it's forbidden. I'll have to come up with a work-around. Thanks, Paizo, for writing trash.

Then the Corpse Fleet has spies everywhere and sends a boarding party to torment the PCs on their shuttle, just for funsies. Corpse Fleet has no actual reason to interfere with the PCs. They can't possibly know about the PCs' data or objective, and yet here they are, boarding the ship! And how the CF got a ship into Eox atmosphere is beyond me. But it happens!

The PCs have to land a crashing ship or defuse the bomb. But naturally they don't really have to do either. There are no consequences. They could have a drink and wait, because when the ship "crashes" they're all magically saved by emergency foam. Deux ex machina again, never gets old.

THEN the PCs are attacked by a zombie hoard; time for an excruciating Chase Subsystem without purpose! The PCs can't actually make decisions, only make rolls. There's zero roleplay value here, which means this is half an hour of wasting our time. When my PCs want to escape a zombie hoard they want to CLIMB THAT CLIFF in real time, screaming and scrabbling at the rocks as undead fingers claw at their boots. Not just "roll some dice and get a victory point, whee." Subsystems stink.

Corpse Fleet attack again! The game expects the PCs to be camped out in the centre of a ritual circle. Good grod, who play tested this? My PCs won't step foot in a ritual circle without about 4 hours of examination, and then they'll get out as fast as possible. Oddity: the Corpse Fleet can track a PC party on foot from orbit? CF should have taken over the entire system by now if their tech is that good.

Finally, a Zo! executive meets the PCs in the wilderness. She says they've been on camera for days, and while they COULD have rescued the PCs at any time... they didn't! Whee! So bottle that rage and sign up for our show! There is zero chance my players will do that. And I mean zero. Being toyed with for a week for someone's amusement? Nope. I'd lay money that the PCs will hunt her down and terminate her for that little whimsy. We don't like being toyed with.

Chapter Three: Chapter Three is a write off. The entire chapter. Gone. Because no PC with a spine will accept being Zo!'s chewtoy in a series of reality shows. So... yeah. I have to rewrite all of this. An entire new chapter, new NPCs and locations. New ways to explain the plot. Not that there's a plot, it's just a series of unconnected events. And dice rolls.

But let's say we do salvage something from Chapter 3 and give the PCs a plot. They learn Iovo exists in the Astral Plane and could possibly be returned. Um... okay. Why do we care? What's in it for the PCs? There's no reward and nothing is at stake. This isn't a revelation, it's more of a yawn and a shrug.

Chapter Four: See chapter Three. It's all gone because we never met Zo!. But if we did still play it, it starts with pointless Hardlight Mascot encounters. Aka, a time sink. Hardlight meet hard pass. Then more "exploration" hazards that waste our time. No character development, no impact on story, and we can't afford to let the PCs fail at it. It's rolling dice for the sake of rolling.

Then landing on a planetary fragment. Combat for combat's sake. No story. Pass. But somehow the Corpse Fleet is here too, because that's not implausible at all. It's mandatory conflcit time again.

Now we meet Opa Zari the chipper space fop and have pointless space fighting, or pointless space influencing, or both. In my group, things that don't progress the story are unwelcome. We don't have time for diversions from our objective. Opa Zari doesn't serve a purpose, so he's a pass... or he would be, if it were an option. It's not. Railroad much?

Then a pointless bar brawl. I haven't RP'd a bar brawl since I was 14. Actual people mind their own business. This is stupid... or written for teenagers. But finally Chapter 4 is over.

I don't think I'll be running Chapter 4. It adds nothing to the story. So... we'll have to skip from Chapter 2 straight to Chapter 5. That's good value for the money, yuppers.

Chapter 5: we start with more exploration tasks. The PCs are required to do an infiltration. There's no other method allowed. No player creativity is permitted. Infiltration points or nothing. Because that's what GMs encourage: total railroading and a lack of creative problem solving. Follow it up with a micrometeor shower that punishes the PCs for trying to get to the adventure location. Swell.

Finally, after some dungeon crawling, we meet Slayn and defeat him. Who's Slayn? Well... we never met him until now, barely know him, don't have any particular feelings about him. He's a relic from history and he's not even doing anything interesting. But he's the baddie, so... yay, I guess.

This is some of the worst writing I've ever imagined.
I regret purchasing this.


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Pluralgrey wrote:
I don't want whimsical

Why did you buy the adventure with the goofy game show host on the cover then?


I can definitely see poeple who prefer a more serious take on the setting feeling underserved since Guilt of the Graveworld and Tales from the Vast both lean into Starfinder's more Gonzo side. But Guilt of the Graveworld isn't exactly subtle about Zo's presence, which seems to be at the root of your biggest complaints.

As for your other complaints...

-One person's Deus Ex Machina is another person's fail forward. I actually fall on your side, here, but as a non-game designer I don't know where the line between consequences and starting a fail cascade is.

-Youe complaints of "This Doesn't Contribute to the Plot" and about lack of character development are at cross purposes in my opinion, at least to some extent. Letting stories breathe is important! Trying to run an AP like an 8-episode streaming mini-series is a mistake in my experience. Let it capture the breadth of an old 24-26 episode television season.

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