Weapon shift and special materials

[KnZ]

As title says. The weapon shift feat says your nat attacks deal the type of a chosen weapon as well as get the properties of the weapon. Would then an adamantine dagger let the shifter ignore adamantine dr? I honestly don't know if a special material would be seen as a weapon property.

[Pizza Lord]

Weapon Shift
My reading of the rules would be that it does. If you have a silver-headed mace, then your natural attacks would deal bludgeoning damage and bypass DR/silver (and also suppress Regeneration if it was stopped by silver). An adamantine weapon would ignore hardness less than 20.

Only if the material or DR bypass came from a a magical ability (I can't think of one, but where it said it counts as 'silver' or 'cold iron' without being that material) rather than the weapon's natural qualities would it not (you'd need Improved Weapon Shift at least).

While fragile is specifically not gained, it would mean I would apply broken penalties to attacks if the melded weapon had that property, possibly even rusty. Not poison, though, since that's normally added or coated and not a natural quality. Unless that was a property of the weapon material, like viridium, which can cause disease (leprosy).

[Belafon]

That is a puzzler. My first instinct was to say "no" because that's not a special feature like blocking or brace. How would the fact that your dagger is adamantine let your slams do adamantine damage. But on second thought - there's clearly something supernatural going on. That dagger lets your slams do piercing damage. So, yeah. I'd say they count as the special material.

[Azothath]

The Weapon Shift feat does not address special materials. PPC: Wilderness Origins 2018 was a late addition so it was clearly ignored and following RAW it is not allowed (as it doesn't say it does).
See the Weapon description chart on AoN.

Damage type is the column for BPS.
Weapon Properties allude to the various Special column entries.
Weapon enhancement and magical abilities(qualities) do not transfer.

So it is going to be a GM caveat allowance.
Is it a big deal? No. It does broach the total enhancement bonus vs various DRs but enhancements are not allowed. You'll also have to address Weapon Blanch, blood crystal(user taking damage then suffering bleed), the disease one, etc...

[Belafon]

Azothath wrote:

The Weapon Shift feat does not address special materials. PPC: Wilderness Origins 2018 was a late addition so it was clearly ignored and following RAW it is not allowed (as it doesn't say it does).

See the Weapon description chart on AoN.

Damage type is the column for BPS.
Weapon Properties allude to the various Special column entries.
Weapon enhancement and magical abilities(qualities) do not transfer.

So it is going to be a GM caveat allowance.
Is it a big deal? No. It does broach the total enhancement bonus vs various DRs but enhancements are not allowed. You'll also have to address Weapon Blanch, blood crystal(user taking damage then suffering bleed), the disease one, etc...

Magical Abilities and Weapon Enhancement transfer with the later versions of the feat (Improved Weapon Shift and Greater Weapon Shift, respectively).

The question is whether "adamantine," "silver," or "cold iron" is a damage type.

Weapon Shift wrote:

...Select one of these weapons; while in your new form, your natural attacks deal the same damage type as that weapon. Your natural attacks also gain all of the weapon’s properties (such as disarm), other than the double weapon property and the fragile weapon property

As far as I have found "damage type" isn't a strictly defined game term. However, looking at the special materials section in Ultimate Equipment (page 48) it defines some types of damage. Evil-aligned weapons, bludgeoning, and energy (such as fire) are all defined as damage types. So I'd have to say that if "evil-aligned" is a damage type then special materials are also a damage type, so yes they would apply.

[Azothath]

Damage Reduction

DR/5 magic is a thing so I'm not sure you can mince the baby in the bathwater. Sure, choosing 3(cold iron, silver, and adamantine) for only overcoming DR is limited and I don't think it's a big problem.
In a close to RAW reading it is "No".
My point is when you get Special Materials (the more general descriptor where DR bypassing derives) it's not all beneficial and there are some alchemical items that blur the line. Perhaps it might be best to leave it to a later feat that grants magical enhancements so the equivalency can usher in the 3 stated material benefits.
I'd also be wary of PC's buying diminutive melee weapons and claiming DR bypassing as inappropriate size penalties don't transfer.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

I'm inclined to say no, because the Eldritch Claws feat was doing basically what we're talking about ("[Your] natural weapons are considered both magic and silver for purpose of overcoming damage reduction.") for about a decade before Weapon Shift came out, and has a not-insignificant BAB requirement (among other things) tied to it, versus a pretty entry-level requirement for Weapon Shift (at least where Druids and Shifters are concerned).

[Pizza Lord]

Phoebus Alexandros wrote:

I'm inclined to say no, because the Eldritch Claws feat was doing basically what we're talking about ("[Your] natural weapons are considered both magic and silver for purpose of overcoming damage reduction.") for about a decade before Weapon Shift came out, and has a not-insignificant BAB requirement (among other things) tied to it, versus a pretty entry-level requirement for Weapon Shift (at least where Druids and Shifters are concerned).

Possibly, but Eldritch Claws seems to apply to all natural attacks all the time. Weapon Shift only give the benefits of one weapon (though more can be absorbed), and you have to actually have a magical or adamantine weapon or whatever property to get the properties of it. Plus you also must be proficient, you aren't just borrowing the fighter's exotic reach/trip/disarming weapon. And it only works in wildshape. Eldritch Claws applies the all the characters natural attacks at any time or in any other aspect, such as being a monk or polymorph effects.

A 1st or even 3rd-level druid probably isn't going to be carrying or have access to a magical adamantine weapon (or even an ordinary one) in most games (and at 6th, they could take Eldritch Claws). So lower requirements doesn't seem out of place (and need another feat, Improved Weapon Shift, as well as the actual magic weapon) to count as magic.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

Fair points, Pizza Lord, and well made. I have a few counterpoints, but they mostly fall within the "opinion" realm.

Eldritch Claws predates the Brawler and the Shifter, and the Monk already had a "counts as magic/silver" class feature for their unarmed attacks. So, at the time of creation, the most obvious customers would've been the Barbarian and the Druid--and the latter's Wild Shape, with its hour-per-level, per use, benefit makes duration kind of a non-issue (especially from 6th level and on). Eldritch Claws' Strength and BAB requirements don't eliminate the Druid from taking it by any means, but I would argue they make it kind of obvious who the feat was primarily intended for.

With its Wild Shape requirement, the Weapon Shift chain of feats is clearly aimed at the Druid and the Shifter--but Weapon Shift wouldn't be available until 4th level, as that's when Wild Shape comes online. The Shifter already has a "counts as magic/silver" class feature that comes online at 3rd level, however. So really we're talking about the Druid, 15th level VMC Druids, and three archetypes that grant Wild Shape (1-3 levels before the BAB requirement of Eldritch Claws).

So, niche concepts aside, I think the question largely comes down to whether or not Weapon Shift should allow Druids to count their natural attacks as magic and silver for 4+ hours per day at 4th level when a Barbarian has to wait until 6th level to do the same for the whole day. And I concede the answer to this will be subjective and up to GMs and their players.