Actual Play Combat with the Necromancer (Level 10)


Necromancer Class Discussion


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INTRO

As part of the playtest, I ran a level 10 Severe threat combat with a party that included a Necromancer. We ran into a couple of things that require clarification with the class, so I have decided to post the play-by-play here. I've also switched my wizard in a campaign I'm in to be a Necromancer so that will give me some experience with the class at low levels (we're halfway through level 1 there).

THE PARTY (LVL 10):

Farron (human ranged Fighter - investigator archetype)

Bathen (skeleton dragon Barbarian - wrestler & martial artist archetypes)

Cheliax's Wrath (hobgoblin obedience Champion - hellknight archetype)

Nadya (human dhampir bone shaper Necromancer - herbalist archetype)

1 - Bone Spear, 1 - Reach of the Dead (Natural Ambition), 2 - Necrotic Bomb, 4 - Zombie Horde, 6 - Bone Burst, 8 - Reclaim Power, 10 - Muscle Barrier

ENCOUNTER DETAILS - Severe 120 XP:

Valkyrie (Valk) LVL 12

Captain of the Guard (CotG) LVL 6

Priest of Pharasma (PoP) LVL 6

Abrasive Monster Hunter (MHA) LVL 6

Brutal Monster Hunter (MHB) LVL 6

The party, by now an infamous band of ne'er-do-wells, have come to the hidden port of Plaeis'naim to retrieve the MacGuffin Orb that has recently been 'liberated' from its resting place in a hidden puzzle-filled tomb by two mercenaries. The party tracked the mercenaries to the port, where they find them delivering the orb to three representatives of the Sons of Pharasma, the party's sworn enemies. Now the party has decided to send the Sons of Pharasma a message by slaughtering them all and securing the MacGuffin Orb!

ROUND 1:

F starts off the round with entering Point Blank Stance and Triple Shotting MHA, critting her twice and leaving her on 2 HP. Valk uses Storm of Battle, F, N & C succeed, B crit fails. N creates 2 Thralls, finishing off MHA with the free attack. Valk uses Recall the Fallen to bring her back, but a follow up Bone Spear crits MHA and MHB, killing the former (again) and severely wounding the latter. CotG plays it safe, dispatching the remaining Thrall that was adjacent to PoP and raising their shield. MHB didn't take his partner getting killed lightly, raged and sudden charged at F, missing his greataxe strike. B, already raging thanks to Quick-Tempered, enters Dragon Stance and wrestles MHB to the ground with Suplex. C heals B with Touch of Corruption, finishes the prone MHB and Demoralizes CotG. PoP critically misses a Searing Light against B. The round ends.

ROUND 1 TAKEAWAYS:

Create Thrall and Bone Spear both interacting with MAP is not too big of a deal when facing much lower level enemies like this. However, the Necromancer was immediately concerned with the Valkyrie's massive AoE with Storm of Battle, a repeatable 100-foot burst like that is a pretty hard counter to her Thralls when used as it will automatically wipe ALL of them off the map.

ROUND 2:

F uses Devise a Stratagem as a free action, rolling a 10. He chooses to stride to avoid lesser cover and Double Shots PoP and CotG. The prior 10 is enough to crit PoP (successfully deafening him via the Thundering rune), but CotG only suffers a hit. CotG Shield Blocks PoP via Shield Warden, but the leftover damage is enough to destroy the 20 HP steel shield. Valk heals PoP back to max with a 6th rank Heal and then strikes F in retaliation with her Returning Spear. N casts Bless and follows it up with Create Thrall to flank PoP, critting him. No longer acting on instinct, CotG decides to Recall Knowledge on the Thralls and realizes that they no longer pose an immediate threat without N's direct commands. As such, CotG began pursuing F, striding into melee with him and striking him with her longsword. B strides after the Valkyrie and succeeds on his Grapple check (using a Hero Point after an initial failure). He misses his followup attack, but she remains Grabbed. C moves into flanking with B, but misses her strike. PoP wastes 2 actions removing the Immobilized condition from F's bow critical specialization and strides away, triggering N's Bone Burst and taking some damage.

ROUND 2 TAKEAWAYS:

This round raised the question of if the Necromancer receives the status bonus from Bless on the Create Thrall attack if the Thrall is outside of Bless's range. I ruled that it does, but I could be convinced that it doesn't as the Thrall is the one making the attack? I would appreciate some clarification there.

Another sticking point was regarding the DC for a Recall Knowledge against the Thralls. Does it use a Level-Based DC for Level -1 (what would that even be? the table starts at 0) as that's the Thralls' stated level? Does it use the Level-Based DC for the Necromancer themselves? If so, does it use the Level-Based DC for the Necromancer's level (DC27) or for the Spell Rank of Create Thrall (DC26)? All this results in a range possible DCs ranging from 13 to 27. which is a massive difference. In the end I just decided to have it autosucceed, but clarification is definitely required here.

ROUND 3:

F attempts to use Ring of the Ram to get CotG off of him, but she critically succeeds the Fortitude save. Thus he Steps directly away into a corner and crits her with his longbow, likewise Deafening her. Valk Escapes the grapple uses Storm of Battle again to great effect, F succeeds, N & B fail, C critically fails. N strides closer to get everyone in range of her Bless and casts a 5th rank Soothe on F, healing him up to 2/3rds max HP. CotG burns an action removing Immobilized from F's crit, Steps adjacent to N and strikes her for a chunk of damage. B starts wailing on Valk, but misses two of his three strikes. C heals herself with Cantorian Rejuvenation and misses a strike against Valk. PoP attempts to cast a 3rd rank Heal on CotG but fails the flat check from Deafened, losing the slot and the actions. He simply casts Shield with his final action.

ROUND 3 TAKEAWAYS:

Nothing to say for this round.

ROUND 4:

F opens the round with using Double Shot, finishing off CotG and critting PoP, once again immobilizing him. Valk strikes C and refuses Iron Command, taking persistent spirit and mental damage. She then uses Strom of Battle again, B succeeds, N, C & F fail. At the end of her turn, she succeeds both flat checks and removes both sources of persistent damage. N starts her turn with a Synesthesia, Valk fails her check. She then casts Create Thrall, using one to try to finish off PoP, but their Shield Block tanks most of the damage, leaving them with 2 HP. Bathen falls prone from crit failing to grapple Valk. Standing up eats her reaction as she Reactive Strikes him with a crit. With Valk's reaction used, C strides to PoP and finishes him off with a crit. Lastly, she heals herself with Lay on Hands from Blessed One Dedication.

ROUND 4 TAKEAWAYS:

Nothing to say for this round.

ROUND 5:

F uses Incredible Aim to score a crit on Valk and follows it up with a successful Assisting Shot. Valk on her turn burns an action to remove the Immobilized gained from F's crit and strikes twice, hitting B the first time and N the second with a thrown Returning Spear. The strike hits, knocking N out. B continues striking Valk, managing to deal some damage. C strides back into melee, striking Valk with her maul and casting Touch of Corruption on her, which deals half damage.

ROUND 5 TAKEAWAYS:

Nothing to say for this round.

ROUND 6:

This round ends quickly as F kills Valk with a critical hit, bringing the combat to a close.

ROUND 6 TAKEAWAYS:

Nothing to say for this round.

COMBAT WRAP UP:

After a tough combat, the threat has been dealt with. The nefarious party claims their prize and whisks the MacGuffin Orb away to their evil headquarters. Another victory for the vile villains!

Dark Archive

Archives of Nethys had a recall knowledge DC of 13 for level -1 creatures, though I haven't found a basis for that DC yet.


kwodo wrote:
This round raised the question of if the Necromancer receives the status bonus from Bless on the Create Thrall attack if the Thrall is outside of Bless's range. I ruled that it does, but I could be convinced that it doesn't as the Thrall is the one making the attack? I would appreciate some clarification there.

Yes your Create Thrall receives Bless bonus even if you create a thrall outside the bless Aura because you are still the caster even if the attack origin is your thrall.

In resume, who casts the Create Thrall is you and who is getting the status bonus is you and it still your spell and still uses your spell attack with all its bonuses. It's mechanically similar to any ranged attack spell.
kwodo wrote:
nother sticking point was regarding the DC for a Recall Knowledge against the Thralls. Does it use a Level-Based DC for Level -1 (what would that even be? the table starts at 0) as that's the Thralls' stated level? Does it use the Level-Based DC for the Necromancer themselves? If so, does it use the Level-Based DC for the Necromancer's level (DC27) or for the Spell Rank of Create Thrall (DC26)? All this results in a range possible DCs ranging from 13 to 27. which is a massive difference. In the end I just decided to have it autosucceed, but clarification is definitely required here.
Ectar wrote:
Archives of Nethys had a recall knowledge DC of 13 for level -1 creatures, though I haven't found a basis for that DC yet.

Yes I still think that makes no sense to RK a thrall.

If we consider that RK vs thralls is DC 13 dua its level OK but what information this can provide? The only answer is that they are very fragile undeads that can't act without being magically controlled by necromancer and all question about almost anything will be "they doesn't have" such thing:

Example of supposed RK questions:

  • “Are any of its defenses weak?”: They are weak to everything! (for bone thralls you can say that they reflex can be good enought to eventually save some of then from an AoE).
  • “What environments does it live in?”: They doesn't have one they are created by the necromancer.
  • “What's its most notable offensive ability?”: They don´t have such thing, they only Strikes when created.
  • “Is it highly vulnerable or resistant to anything?”: They don´t have such thing. Anything can insta destroy them.

    You cannot use this RK to learn about any necromancers spells that uses the thralls as fuel because they are necromancer's ability. So basically allow they to be directly RKed is senseless. Instead if some player or GM want to RK about them redirect it to necromancer and use the necromancer RK DC.

  • Dark Archive

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    Thralls are still creatures. Creatures can be learned about through recall knowledge.

    It is worthwhile to learn that they cannot take independent combat actions and can be destroyed by any damage and are always hit by attacks. (That's maybe a critical success amount of information, but that's not hard on a DC 13).


    Thanks a lot for this experience, I love to see how things work in actual play instead of a white room.

    It sure was rough for the necro with the constant AOE damage.

    Also, I have a question: why did the necro never use Inevitable Return ? Did he already have enough thralls for all his needs ?


    Blue_frog wrote:

    Thanks a lot for this experience, I love to see how things work in actual play instead of a white room.

    It sure was rough for the necro with the constant AOE damage.

    Also, I have a question: why did the necro never use Inevitable Return ? Did he already have enough thralls for all his needs ?

    Good question! given a wide scale AoE, the player decided to save their reaction as the 2 Thralls conjured per Create Thrall were enough to fuel their grave spells when they did decide to use them.

    I do want to run another encounter soon without such a board wipe AoE (I honestly missed it when I picked Valkyrie as one of the enemies) to see how the Necromancer does when they can build up a steady supply of Thralls over a couple of rounds

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