does Size Modifier apply to creatures who are incorporeal? for example, a Spiritualist's Phantom (large size), given the first line in incorporeal is "an Incorporeal creature has no physical body" that'd lend itself to they don't, but then why aren't Phantoms also invisible, if something lacks a physical body, light can't reflect off it, further, if he's considered "quasi-real" incorporeal he still wouldn't possess a weight
speaking of, do Phantom's have a weight?
slightly side note, my phantom is quadrupedal, which is not typical for them, as such it's not included in the stat block, does anyone know what the adjustments are?
I haven't gotten a ruling from my DM, but the other player's say that, at least mechanically, Size Modifier for being Large applies
Edit: thank you for the answers, this is my first posting!
Size bonuses should work unless something specifically says they don't. So any damage dice increases, stat increases (if they have that stat), reach, etc. These also include any penalties to these depending on what is changing. There are some things that might be irrelevant (eg. Size bonus to CMD is unlikely to come up), but unless stated otherwise they should all apply.
Regarding invisibility, it has nothing to do with being incorporeal. There are corporeal creatures who are invisible and incorporeal creatures who are not. You're trying to apply real world physics to a game, and the game absolutely does not support this. If you're having trouble with it, just remember that levitation also defies physics, but is available very early on in the game. This is a universe that could actually have a flat earth or whatever other funny things.
There are Some mechanics that follow that kind of physics. For example, a LASER PISTOL (from the Iron Gods campaign) can shoot through Force effects because they don't block light, and cannot shoot invisible creatures for the same reason. However there are 2 things to note here. First, these rules around visibility and susceptibility to Lasers are Specifically called out, and without that call-out in the text for the weapon this wouldn't be a rule. Secondly, note that it says nothing about Incorporeal creatures - if an Incorporeal creature is visible it will take damage from a Laser (albeit half damage from a corporeal source).
I can't answer the more specific questions about Spiritualists and Phantoms because I haven't read enough on this class, but I'm sure someone will have some answers for you.
Also, welcome =)
As said, size bonuses apply. A halfling ghost will be smaller than a human ghost, who will be smaller than a dragon's ghost (unless it's a Medium or smaller dragon, I guess). So some will be easier to hit than others based on that.
Some size modifiers will be moot or not apply. For instance, for trying to trip or grapple such creatures. Whereas it will be harder to Intimidate a bigger incorporeal creature and easier to Intimidate a smaller one (unless they're undead and immune to fear effects like Intimidate).
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Phantom
Quote: Size: A spiritualist’s phantom is typically the same size as the spiritualist. A spiritualist can have a phantom that is one size category smaller than her, and if she is Small or smaller, she can have a phantom one size category larger than her. A phantom is always a humanoid-shaped creature, and looks somewhat like it did in its past life while manifested, though the emotional turmoil of its existence usually warps its appearance in some way. Quote: Slam Damage: Phantoms have two slam natural weapon attacks. Those attacks’ damage is based on the size of the phantom and is sometimes modified by the abilities of the phantom’s emotional focus. Table 1–11 gives the damage by spiritualist level of the slam attacks made by a Medium phantom. See Table 1–12 for the damage of such attacks for Small and Large phantoms. Often, an individual phantom manifests in a form that makes it appear as if it had weapons or other natural attacks. Regardless of their apparent forms, the phantom’s attacks still deal the slam attack damage listed on Table 1–11 or Table 1–12. While incorporeal, phantoms can deal slam damage only to other incorporeal creatures - and would do so based on their size.
Only RAW quadruped phantoms come from the totem spiritualist or ghost rider cavalier, as far as I could find.
However, phantoms can be described as almost anything: they can have exotic weapons or natural weapons, armor, etc. but still have the statistics as given. So describing yours a quadruped should be fine as it doesn't give any mechanical changes.
Hope that helps!
I grok do u wrote: Phantom
Quote: Size: A spiritualist’s phantom is typically the same size as the spiritualist. A spiritualist can have a phantom that is one size category smaller than her, and if she is Small or smaller, she can have a phantom one size category larger than her. A phantom is always a humanoid-shaped creature, and looks somewhat like it did in its past life while manifested, though the emotional turmoil of its existence usually warps its appearance in some way. Quote: Slam Damage: Phantoms have two slam natural weapon attacks. Those attacks’ damage is based on the size of the phantom and is sometimes modified by the abilities of the phantom’s emotional focus. Table 1–11 gives the damage by spiritualist level of the slam attacks made by a Medium phantom. See Table 1–12 for the damage of such attacks for Small and Large phantoms. Often, an individual phantom manifests in a form that makes it appear as if it had weapons or other natural attacks. Regardless of their apparent forms, the phantom’s attacks still deal the slam attack damage listed on Table 1–11 or Table 1–12. While incorporeal, phantoms can deal slam damage only to other incorporeal creatures - and would do so based on their size.
Only RAW quadruped phantoms come from the totem spiritualist or ghost rider cavalier, as far as I could find.
However, phantoms can be described as almost anything: they can have exotic weapons or natural weapons, armor, etc. but still have the statistics as given. So describing yours a quadruped should be fine as it doesn't give any mechanical changes.
Hope that helps!
Do you happen to know if I should apply the Ectoplasmic template to the Phantom? its hyperlinked in the statistics sheet, but only once, nor is it mentioned in the stat block
Nope, the phantom stat block and information includes everything. You should use aonprd.com over d20pfsrd whenever possible as the latter often has hyperlinks that don't apply, assuming that's where you saw that.
Fun fact: The ectoplasmic template is an undead template, but spiritualist phantoms are considered ethereal outsiders, not undead.
I grok do u wrote: Nope, the phantom stat block and information includes everything. You should use aonprd.com over d20pfsrd whenever possible as the latter often has hyperlinks that don't apply, assuming that's where you saw that.
Fun fact: The ectoplasmic template is an undead template, but spiritualist phantoms are considered ethereal outsiders, not undead.
Armor Bonus
The number noted here is the increase to the phantom’s natural armor bonus when it manifests as an ectoplasmic creature, and its deflection bonus when it manifests as an incorporeal creature. An ectoplasmic or incorporeal manifested phantom can’t wear armor[2] of any kind, as the armor interferes with the spiritualist’s connection with the phantom; a phantom may seem to be wearing armor, but this appearance is just an illusory part of its appearance.
except that "ectoplasmic creature" is a hyperlink to the template, its on the d20psfrd website
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/occult-adventures/occult- classes/Spiritualist/#phantom_statistics
the reason we downplay d20pfsrd in the Rules Forum is it is a collection of community projects with "helpful" and sometimes misleading or incorrect editing refunnelled through a website (d20pfsrd). Thus it fails as a consistent source of RAW. Some people promote/discourage it for business or fan reasons but that's beyond our scope.
It is easier to search and find what you need to then go and find it on AoN (the official PRD/RAW).
Azothath wrote: the reason we downplay d20pfsrd in the Rules Forum is it is a collection of community projects with "helpful" and sometimes misleading or incorrect editing refunnelled through a website (d20pfsrd). Thus it fails as a consistent source of RAW. Some people promote/discourage it for business or fan reasons but that's beyond our scope.
It is easier to search and find what you need to then go and find it on AoN (the official PRD/RAW).
I second this. The search function of D20PFSRD is so much faster and more refined, it makes finding something incredibly easy (and loads fast). Then you can use what you find to narrow a check on Archives of Nethys to check for differences.
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