I have always run Strength based martials with low Dex and have less experience with Dex builds in the higher levels. To try something different I am running a Dex based fighter using finesse weapons and picking up the Rogue archetype. I am currently at 4th level with a +4 Dex and using +1 leather armor.
I have been looking ahead for future builds and I guess I hadn't realized that once I hit level 10 and get +5 Dex, that my AC can't benefit from it in leather. I can switch to Explorer's clothing to get my +5 Dex, but then I lose my +1 from the leather so it's a "wash".
I was looking at options, but apparently Elven Chain (the old stereotype), still has a +1 Dex cap, so it's not that useful as it would still be a wash compared to leather.
How do higher level characters AC benefit from say a +6 Dex at level 17 from a Cloak of Swiftness or a +7 Dex at level 20? Running no armor would allow it, but then you lose the armor potency runes which would seem to offset it again.
Are there any optimization tips or tricks to getting a higher AC and fully using your Dex bonus?
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In PF2, there is no longer "touch AC" so maxing out the Dex bonus to AC doesn't matter as long as you hit the +5 (+6 for heavy armor) total before the armor potency rune value. Even a Dex-based fighter, to get the maximum benefit from armor specialization, should increase Str up to +2 or +3 and wear medium or heavy armor; a Dex-based fighter just doesn't need an armor with the Bulwark trait to compensate on Ref saves.
So Elven Chain is just not that useful unless you have a mid Dex bonus or only Medium Armor proficiency.
As a Dex based Fighter Rogue at level 20, the theoretical best I can do is AC44 (or AC 46 with shield):
+5 Dex (capped at +5, but is +7)
+3 from Explorer's clothing with +3 Armor Potency Rune
+6 from Master Armor proficiency
+20 from level
As a Str based Fighter at level 20, the theoretical best I can do is AC45 (or AC 47 with shield)
+0 from Dex
+9 from Full Plate with +3 Armor Potency Rune
+6 from Master Armor proficiency
+20 from level
As far as I know, Champion is on the only way to get Legendary Armor Proficiency and it's not available in the Archetype.
I will be more clear: your Dex-based fighter/rogue gains no benefit from wearing light armor or explorer's clothing compared to increasing Str to +2 and wearing medium armor such as scale mail; in fact, they are at a disadvantage because light armor or explorer's clothing do not gain any armor specialization benefit from Armor Expertise (resistance to piercing damage for scale mail as composite armor).
In general the response is:
There is also the finesse weapons being used. So that is a balance point to consider as well.
Essentially, through whatever combination of AC bonus and Dex bonus, +5 is generally speaking the cap for non-heavy armor. Heavy armor gets +6 and there are some special abilities that might break those rules, but there's no general workaround by design.
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I will be more clear: your Dex-based fighter/rogue gains no benefit from wearing light armor or explorer's clothing compared to increasing Str to +2 and wearing medium armor such as scale mail; in fact, they are at a disadvantage because light armor or explorer's clothing do not gain any armor specialization benefit from Armor Expertise (resistance to piercing damage for scale mail as composite armor).
But the reason the dex-based martial class will increase Dex to +5 or +6 or even +7 is because "this is the stat you roll in order to hit things."
But you can just wear medium armor anyway.
About the only advantage in early levels for light armour I can see are the lower Strength requirement and lower Bulk. Granted, that can be huge at level one.
About the only advantage in early levels for light armour I can see are the lower Strength requirement and lower Bulk. Granted, that can be huge at level one.
Very few characters settle into their permanent gear choices at 1st level- you can't even afford plate mail yet.
But really the only weapon-using classes who do not care about strength at all are gun/crossbow users and thief rogues. Everybody else benefits from some Str, so you can get enough to wear medium armor.
there are three points to consider for dex armor:
-how easily can you reach the cap (usually quite easy)
-you wanna use a finesse weapon? (then you want high dex anyway)
-what runes do you want (light armor has different from heavy ones)
of course with a high dex modifier you are automatically also good in using ranged weapons *and* in reflex saves as well as a hand full of potentially useful skills (stealth)
that said, if you are not a thief or gunslinger, most classes benefit from a little strenght - but it is not strictly needed
the biggest advantage of dexterity is therefore that it is a very versatile stat
If you have the strength for it and avoid the Bulwark trait, there is no downside at all to using heavy armor even on a Dex character (other than the usual Speed penalty, of course). I got a Drifter build lying around somewhere that uses half-plate, for example.
Also note the higher Reflex save from being a Dex martial is kinda valuable. I see it more as a defensive choice (along with the AC/stance options one has with the other hand).
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Also note the higher Reflex save from being a Dex martial is kinda valuable. I see it more as a defensive choice (along with the AC/stance options one has with the other hand).
The tradeoff is basically:
STR martials:
- do more damage
- have higher AC (with heavy armor)
Dex martials:
- have better reflex saves.
- get to use Dex for more skills (Athletics is the only Str skill, Dex gets Stealth, Thievery, and Acrobatics)
- Easily avoids penalties from armor.
This seems like a fair trade-off to me.
That sort of undersells the value of athletics imo, but yeah more or less.