Champion Choices for one of my players


Advice


I have a player in my upcoming campaign of Kingmaker who wants to make an orc Redeemer champion from the Hold of Belkzen. From what it sounds like, they want to take the Orc Weapon Familiarity feat at level 1 to gain the necksplitter. However, there isn't a deity with the necksplitter as a favored weapon. They're asking if it would be possible to make their deity weapon something other than their deity's favored weapon. Secondly, they mentioned that champions have access to their deity's domains like Warpriest Cleric does, but I haven't seen this anywhere; is it in a feat somewhere?


Champions do not need to worry about using only their deity's favored weapon. Only Warpriest Clerics do. The only thing that would matter is if you want to use a simple weapon, which gains the Deific Weapon upgrade.

As for domain, yes, Champions currently have access to their deity's domains through the 1st level feat [Deity's Domain]: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=214

Since the Orc Necksplitter is an Advanced weapon (treated as martial because of Orc Familiarity), they don't have any trouble choosing it and they don't gain any benefit from Deific Weapon.

Also, since you're the GM, nothing prevents you from changing or adding a weapon as the Deity's favored weapon to accommodate a player, this is very far from game-breaking or worrying.


I told my player that their character would be worshipping a different aspect of Erastil that favored falchions and necksplitters. I'm considering writing a new stat block for Erastil Belkzenia, would I need to do this or just change a couple things from the standard one in the Player Core? Perhaps changing one of the domains to Might.


citybound4st wrote:
I told my player that their character would be worshipping a different aspect of Erastil that favored falchions and necksplitters. I'm considering writing a new stat block for Erastil Belkzenia, would I need to do this or just change a couple things from the standard one in the Player Core? Perhaps changing one of the domains to Might.

The feat "Splinter Faith" is an interesting way of handling this mechanically. Here: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=1173

But, as I said, the player can use any weapon they want as a Champion. It doesn't have to be their Deity's whatsoever. The only mechanic that interacts with it somehow is with Deific Weapon for the purpose of enhancing Simple Weapons.

Basically, there is no need to change a thing. And if the player wants a domain different from what their chosen deity offers, aside from considering another deity altogether, you can just have the player pick Splinter Faith and go from there.

It might even be a good option to give Splinter Faith as a free feat (since it gives nothing but opening options) and the player can pick Deity's Domain as their 1st feat with the interesting domain they want.

Sovereign Court

citybound4st wrote:
I have a player in my upcoming campaign of Kingmaker who wants to make an orc Redeemer champion from the Hold of Belkzen. From what it sounds like, they want to take the Orc Weapon Familiarity feat at level 1 to gain the necksplitter. However, there isn't a deity with the necksplitter as a favored weapon. They're asking if it would be possible to make their deity weapon something other than their deity's favored weapon.

Champions aren't limited to using only their deity's favored weapon. They're proficient with all simple and martial weapons. The Deific Weapon ability doesn't make the deity's weapon better than others, it just fixes some problems in case your deity's weapon is worse.

* If the weapon is uncommon, it guarantees the champion has access to it.

* If the weapon is simple, it gets a damage bonus to make it more similar in power to a martial weapon.

So both of these benefits help to make sure that it's not a bad thing to use your deity's favored weapon, but they don't actually make it better than using other martial weapons.

The orcish necksplitter is uncommon and advanced, but with the orc weapon familiarity feat your player gains access to it and can use it as if it were martial. So they don't need the help from the Deific Weapon ability anymore.

(Note: the player really needs the feat to use the necksplitter effectively, because champions are not proficient in advanced weapons, even if they're the favored weapon.)

citybound4st wrote:
Secondly, they mentioned that champions have access to their deity's domains like Warpriest Cleric does, but I haven't seen this anywhere; is it in a feat somewhere?

Yes, it's in the Deity's Domain feat. Just like a war priest, they don't gain the domain & spell automatically, but they can gain it by taking the feat.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Erastil Belkzenia is a goofy concept. He's the God of the Hunt and the Hearth, not the god of chopping off heads in glorious battle. There's zero reason for your player to use their non-simple deific weapon beyond roleplay, and it's much goofier to have Erastil Belkzenia than an orc who converted to Erastil after leavings the Holds. He can keep using the weapons he grew up with (instead of in addition to the longbow) as long as he's using them for appropriate Erastalian purposes.

This whole thread feels like the player misread how diefic weapons work.

Dark Archive

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Its not uncommon for people seeing the "dice upgrade" mechanic of deific weapon and skipping the "d4 or simple" prerequisite, because a d10 warhammer sounds just very juicy. Too juicy.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Erastil Belkzenia is a goofy concept. He's the God of the Hunt and the Hearth, not the god of chopping off heads in glorious battle. There's zero reason for your player to use their non-simple deific weapon beyond roleplay, and it's much goofier to have Erastil Belkzenia than an orc who converted to Erastil after leavings the Holds.

Because religious offshoot groups never ever develop theologies contradictory or at odds with the main church?

I'd be pretty liberal allowing a player to come up with a sectarian or syncretic offshoot as backstory for their PC. As multiple posters have said, it's probably not going to result in any game balance issue because Deific Weapon is pretty resistant to powergaming - it tells you what things it dice bumps and if you take anything else, you don't get the bump.


Captain Morgan wrote:

Erastil Belkzenia is a goofy concept. He's the God of the Hunt and the Hearth, not the god of chopping off heads in glorious battle. There's zero reason for your player to use their non-simple deific weapon beyond roleplay, and it's much goofier to have Erastil Belkzenia than an orc who converted to Erastil after leavings the Holds. He can keep using the weapons he grew up with (instead of in addition to the longbow) as long as he's using them for appropriate Erastalian purposes.

This whole thread feels like the player misread how diefic weapons work.

Sarenrite Orcs are a major ally in PFS. It would not surprise me to discover other deities in Belkzen


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

To clarify, I don't object to there being orcs in Belkzen that worship Erastil. But I'm assuming those Saranrite orcs are still valuing honesty and redemption.

Easl wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Erastil Belkzenia is a goofy concept. He's the God of the Hunt and the Hearth, not the god of chopping off heads in glorious battle. There's zero reason for your player to use their non-simple deific weapon beyond roleplay, and it's much goofier to have Erastil Belkzenia than an orc who converted to Erastil after leavings the Holds.

Because religious offshoot groups never ever develop theologies contradictory or at odds with the main church?

I'd be pretty liberal allowing a player to come up with a sectarian or syncretic offshoot as backstory for their PC. As multiple posters have said, it's probably not going to result in any game balance issue because Deific Weapon is pretty resistant to powergaming - it tells you what things it dice bumps and if you take anything else, you don't get the bump.

It's one thing when you contradict existing doctrine. It's another when your god grants you power anyway. I had the impression PF2 was cutting out cases like the Cult of the Dawnflower. I'm also more of a stickler for flavor, though.

Granted, using weapons besides a longbow is not contradicting the tenets of Erastil. But it also has no mechanical significance so I question why bother changing the favored weapon at all. If you and the player find it it a fun writing exercise to create an elaborate explanation for how some orcs go from "care for your home and family, fulfill your duties, keep the peace, protect the community" to using a NECK SPLITTER as a symbol, in the most violent nation on the planet... Be my guest. But you're working really hard to make something goofy credible when your player literally doesn't seem to care about their god, just their build.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Granted, using weapons besides a longbow is not contradicting the tenets of Erastil. But it also has no mechanical significance so I question why bother changing the favored weapon at all. If you and the player find it it a fun writing exercise to create an elaborate explanation for how some orcs go from "care for your home and family, fulfill your duties, keep the peace, protect the community" to using a NECK SPLITTER as a symbol, in the most violent nation on the planet... Be my guest.

Worth pointing out that in RL, Colt's revolver was nicnknamed the 'peacemaker' precisely because of its ability to let a common person do a heap ton of damage. It's really not that elaborate or unusual to associate "even nastier weapon" with "keeping the peace". The US and USSR based their military policy on that for the whole cold war lol. If people fear being targeted by a neck splitter so much that they opt not to do bad things rather than be hit by it, it's a peacekeeper. At least in a very grim sense of the term.

While I personally agree with you that the original ask has a bit more 'optimize build' over 'interesting role play' sense about it, I'll leave it up to the OP (the GM of the game) to address that. Who knows what motivations lurk in the minds of players I've never met. Could be something as simple as the player saw the picture of it and liked it.

Liberty's Edge

Peace through superior firepower.

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