Death and the dying and wounded conditions


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

There's a discussion of this somewhere, but I can't find it, so...

The aforementioned discussion, as I recall it, said something about the rules around this being more draconian than most GMs have treated them. Here's my take after reading PC1 and GM Core:

Generally speaking you will start an encounter with neither the dying nor the wounded condition. If during the encounter your hit points are reduced to 0, you fall unconscious and are Dying 1. If you take non-critical damage in this state, your Dying condition increases by 1 (to Dying 2). If you take critical damage, your Dying condition increases by 2 (to Dying 3).

At the beginning of your turn each round, you make a recovery check. If you succeed you go to Dying 0 and are no longer dying, but you gain Wounded 1 and are (still) unconscious. If you fail, your dying condition increases by 1 or 2 (for a critical failure) plus whatever your wounded condition is (currently 0 in this scenario).

Now let's say you get some healing while at Dying 1, but not full healing. You lose the Dying condition and gain the Wounded 1 condition, and you are no longer unconscious. If while you have Wounded 1, you get taken down to 0 hit points again, you are now Dying 2 (Dying 1+1 from your Wounded condition). Now you get healed a bit again. If this is from Treat Wounds (or you are healed to full) you lose the Wounded condition. But say it's from a spell that doesn't heal you fully. You don't lose the Wounded condition, but since you just got healed a bit you lose the Dying 2 condition, and your Wounded condition goes to 3.

If you repeat this scenario again, you go to Dying 4 and you're dead.

The moral of the story seems to be "use Treat Wounds on the dying or ensure they are healed to full". Have I got this right? Is there a more draconian interpretation that I'm missing? Is there a way to gain the Wounded condition other than by recovering from Dying?


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Already done and dusted with the errata


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Not helpful Baarogue. Link?


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https://paizo.com/pathfinder/faq

Quote:

In the Recovery Checks degrees of success, remove all instances of "(plus your wounded condition, if any)"; that's both in the failure and critical failure entries.

Under Taking Damage, remove the final sentence that reads, "If you have the wounded condition, remember to add the value of your wounded condition to your dying value." This reminder should only apply to when you gain the dying condition after getting knocked out.

Effectively it just applies when you go down, not everytime dying increases.


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Ed Reppert wrote:
There's a discussion of this somewhere, but I can't find it, so...

A relevant previous discussion was Remaster Dying with Wounded from November 8, 2023. It was all rendered moot with the errata, Remaster Dying with Wounded, comment #150, that removed adding the Wounded value from the Dying condition upon failing a recovery check or further damage. Wounded value is added to the Dying value only when the character gains the Dying condition.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Ah. Good, I'm glad that's settled.


Ed Reppert wrote:
Now let's say you get some healing while at Dying 1, but not full healing. You lose the Dying condition and gain the Wounded 1 condition, and you are no longer unconscious. If while you have Wounded 1, you get taken down to 0 hit points again, you are now Dying 2 (Dying 1+1 from your Wounded condition). Now you get healed a bit again. If this is from Treat Wounds (or you are healed to full) you lose the Wounded condition. But say it's from a spell that doesn't heal you fully. You don't lose the Wounded condition, but since you just got healed a bit you lose the Dying 2 condition, and your Wounded condition goes to 3.

It goes to 2. It's always +1 on losing Dying. (Or less, but not more)


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Some other minor corrections in the OP runthrough:

When you do a recovery check while dying, a success will reduce the dying value by 1. Not set it to Dying 0. So if you are at Dying 2, one recovery check success and you will still be at Dying 1 and unconscious.

Using Treat Wounds will remove the Wounded condition, but Battle Medicine will not. Healing to full will only remove the Wounded condition after you take a 10 minute rest. Even if you are healed to full HP in the middle of a battle after being dropped, you will still keep the Wounded condition for the remainder of the battle.


If the person dying had a breath of life cast on him and this brought him above 0hp this would prevent him from dying as per wording of the spell so this should remove the dying and wounded conditions Then follow with moment of renewal this should also remove the wounded and dying conditions as target get the benefits of a full days rest. a heightened wholeness of body should also remove the dying and wounded conditions as long as it was hightened to 9th.

Finoan do you know of any magic items that give you bonuses to flat checks?


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Bonuses to flat checks aren't a thing that exists. There are some abilities or items that modifier the DC of specific flat checks, but nothing that does that to all flat checks.

Also, Wounded is removed by a successful Treat Wounds or by 10 minutes of rest after being restored to full HP. Moment of Renewal could only be argued to remove Wounded if the subject is fully healed.

Breath of Life removes Dying, but doesn't say anything to suggest it would remove Wounded.

I don't see Wholeness of Body saying anything about removing Wounded, either. Where are you getting that it would do that if Heightened?

Sovereign Court

It's pretty clearly a design goal that you can't get rid of Wounded mid-combat. That's also why Regenerate has all that interesting language about reaching Wounded 4 (!).

Moment of Renewal is kind of exceptional, but you'd have to be at full health, and you can only do it once per day, and it's a level 8 spell. So that's not something that you trivially pull off in the middle of a combat in which you actually pick up a Wounded condition.


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interestingly, never before did i bothered calculating how many hp you recover with Moment of Renewal, but since I looked it up because of this thread, it is a pretty massive heal. For a typical level 15 party, everyone affected would recover around an 8th-9th rank single target heal

(assuming that by level 15 you have a 16-18 Con) ((starting con +0)3*15*2 = 90, (starting con+1)4*15*2 =120, average single target heal is 12.5/rank)

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