Im playing this adventure path with an arcane bloodrager with a dip in spiritualist to get a boost in will saves, i´ve been building him to take the moonlight stalker chain, so far i have blind fight and combat expertise, and the idea was to take mls at 5, improved feint at 7, moonstalker feint at 9, and moonlight stalker master at 11.
The thing is our dm told us that there will be many giants and feint may be useless againts most of them. Getting a 60% chance to evade does seem good but i dont know if its worth all the investment. What do you think?
Well, it'd be 60% evade, but only when you'd normally have 50% evade. Seems like a lot of feat tax, for only a lil. I mean, I'm assuming you'd be relying on your auto blur/displacement for your main source of concealment, but those tend to fall by the sidelines sometimes, the more you level. Hell, anyone can even see in magical darkness with 32k gold. And even then, with all that, you can feint once a turn, but only to deny them their dex bonus to AC. You're not trying to land sneak attacks, or do any tricks. Just a better chance of hitting.
There are much better options to accomplish that, using way less feats.
Unless I missed something.
But yeah, if I were you, I'd see if your DM will let you retrain those two feats, and abandon that chain.
So I haven't really used the Moonlight Stalker feat-line, but I have played a Bloodrager with concealment to level 17.
My Bloodrager has a Minor Cloak of Displacement (permanent passive 20% miss chance), and it's been incredibly useful.
A 50% miss chance doesn't give you +50% survivability, it effectively gives you +100% survivability. Essentially the enemy would need twice as many attacks to take you down because half of them would miss.
A 20% miss chance effectively makes you 25% more survivable. Increasing that to a 30% miss chance would make you ~43% more survivable, which is a ~14% increase from the 20% miss chance.
At level 8 with Greater Invisibility in tap from your bloodline you can get a 50% miss chance, which is effectively +100% survivability. A 60% miss chance would effectively give you +140% survivability, which is a 25% increase in survivability
That was a lot of numbers without any explanation, but if you can reliably get a miss chance (which you can from your bloodline) then increasing your miss chance by 10% will increase your survivability by 14-25%. Whether that is worth 3 feats is up to you.
I think they might be right about the feint feats being less useful, but the base benefit from Moonlight Stalker and the increased survivability from Moonlight Stalker Master both seem pretty solid to me.
I’m trying to understand why feint would be useless against giants. Was your GM referring to feinting in general or simply suggesting that many of the giants would have true seeing (and therefore prevent you from using Moonlight Stalker Feint)?
If you do decide to make this build, I would suggest Greater Feint at 13th level. Your party members will love you.
Maybe that, unless you have allies with sneak attack, being denied dex to AC doesn't hurt giants much?
Yeah I'm assuming this is what they meant. Giants don't have enough DEX for it to be useful unless you have a class mechanic or something that lets you take advantage of Flat Footed in some other way.
Thanks for answering! About using feint against giants, I was referring to the fact that they don't usually have very high dexterity, if at all.
MrCharisma's point is very interesting, a 140% its worth it imo.
I was thinking about taking the teamwork feats feint partner and improved feint partner (probably using some levels of fighter to get to the feats) and getting some rings of Tactical Precision to give free aoo to my party, we have few casters so it will pay.