Put some more -1 and 0 creatures in the monster core?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I understand that the point of level-based RPGs is that going up in level allows you to face more interesting and dangerous enemies, so wasting interesting monster concepts on level -1 and 0 stat blocks can be a feelsbadman.jpg moment for devs (especially when you can take a level 1 mob and knock it down a peg with the weak template if you're so inclined).

But if you want to create 2- or 4-monster encounters for level 1 characters, and want to do it by grabbing monsters right out of the book without making your own (perhaps the players did something completely unexpected and you have to wing it), you're pretty limited.

Bestiary 1, 2, and 3 have 33 level -1 and 27 level 0 creatures between them (including monsters like the blue-ringed octopus that are pretty... niche), while bestiary 1 alone has 50 level 1 creatures, almost as many as both of the other levels' monsters combined for all three books.

If the monster core is still in development, maybe we could get some more micro-monsters for characters just starting out to fight?

And if it's already off to the printers, maybe Monster Core 2 could have some?


This is why elite/weak/valiant adjustment exists for.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Prosperum wrote:

I understand that the point of level-based RPGs is that going up in level allows you to face more interesting and dangerous enemies, so wasting interesting monster concepts on level -1 and 0 stat blocks can be a feelsbadman.jpg moment for devs (especially when you can take a level 1 mob and knock it down a peg if you're so inclined and have the time).

But if you want to create 2- or 4-monster encounters for level 1 characters, and want to do it by grabbing monsters right out of the book without making your own (perhaps the players did something completely unexpected and you have to wing it), you're pretty limited.

Bestiary 1, 2, and 3 have 33 level -1 and 27 level 0 creatures between them (including monsters like the blue-ringed octopus that are pretty... niche), while bestiary 1 alone has 50 level 1 creatures, almost as many as both of the other levels' monsters combined for all three books.

If the monster core is still in development, maybe we could get some more micro-monsters for characters just starting out to fight?

And if it's already off to the printers, maybe Monster Core 2 could have some?

Or, on a similar note, make a few monsters that are level -1 or 0, but are more generic so they can fill in for a number of possible creatures. Starfinder did that with a couple monsters in the Alien Archive books and it worked out pretty well.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I agree that level -1 and 0 monsters are all of the same type (mostly animals) and not many. But at the same time, they are extremely simple monster concepts, without incredible abilities. So it's easy to just grab a Commoner for a drunken guard or a Guard Dog for any quadrupedal animal with teeth.


Prosperum wrote:
If the monster core is still in development, maybe we could get some more micro-monsters for characters just starting out to fight?

It is not, it releases at the end of march and it will have been content complete months ago unless they have delayed it and not told us. Layout changes do not accommodate for last minute additions and printing times are far from instant; then there is packaging, shipping to warehouse and then shipping to other distributors.

Lead times are longer than many expect :). It is why when paizo sold out of the crb earlier this year soon after a reprint it took them four months to get more print stock even though they already had all the content and layout ready to go.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Are we going to get a monster core 2? I was under the impression that all future monster books would be thematically driven like book of the dead or dark archive. If that is the case, and folks are wanting more common creatures, maybe an “urban adventures” book, could be a way to get a lot of support for lower level play that isn’t covered by the generic dungeon delving that the core books should pretty well cover? I know folks have also been clamoring for more skill feats for a long time, and even more support for running social intrigue encounters and ways to incorporate that mechanic generally into home campaigns and even published adventures for getting boons from local merchants and towns folk would probably be a pretty popular book?

Maybe not if the next big push is into the mythic/god killing stuff, but it might be the case that folks want to be able to dial back down from that epic fantasy after it has gotten published.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

There are at least 141 creatures at level 0 and -1 if you widen your net beyond the bestiary. Adventures, modules, and scenarios tend to generate a lot of them.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

To add to what Captain Morgan says, PF Easy tools is your friend.

Unicore wrote:
Maybe not if the next big push is into the mythic/god killing stuff, but it might be the case that folks want to be able to dial back down from that epic fantasy after it has gotten published.

Actually, that sounds kind of cool. Perhaps a 2 to 4 book AP at high levels as a follow up to the War of Immortals, but then after something distinctly low powered and local stakes, like Outlaws of Alkenstar.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

141 was what I found on Archive of Nethys. PF2 easy tool might have even more. They have been adding AP NPCs for longer.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'll add my 2 cents and ask for some level -1 elementals and kicking summon elemental down to a rank 1 spell...

('twould open some design possibilities for house rules...)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / General Discussion / Put some more -1 and 0 creatures in the monster core? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.