Can I use a wand / staff / rod as an Improvised Weapon?


Rules Questions


Lets say I had the following build

Race: Ifrit
Class: Wizard 5 (minimum needed to pull off)

1) Combat Expertise
3) Improved Feint
5b) Craft Wand
5) Blistering Feint

(I don’t think these feats are needed but I added them in case it helped the case):

7) Catch Off-Guard
9) Improvisational Focus (Combat)

So at level 5 I craft a Wand of Fireball which at that level would deal 5d6 damage. I “wield” the wand as a melee weapon (for its unintended purpose = improvised).

Can I use Blistering Feint to do a feint on an enemy and if successful deal fire damage from the wand, which is an improvised weapon (which I can be proficient with if need be with later levels/feats). The wand deals fire damage of 5d6 as stated above.

Quote:


Blistering Feint

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on feint checks made while wielding a weapon that deals fire damage. Anytime you successfully feint a creature while using such a weapon, you may deal its fire damage to the enemy.


I would say no, because it doesn't do fire damage unless it's spitting out fireballs. Your GM might allow you to craft some extra gimmick like this as an added function of the wand, but given that it's just a short and flimsy stick, it's hardly going to do any damage anyway. Like 1d2 or something. And unless you make it out of metal, it's going to be very fragile so it's very risky.

You're a wizard. Stick to spells.

Regarding that wand, you might consider whether it's value for money. Assuming 13 encounters per level, it will last 4 whole levels [i]if you use it once in every single encounter.[/] In practice you'll barely manage half that unless you like blowing your party up (hope they're fire-resistant too) meaning that it's likely to last until you're 15th level, and long since obsolete.


You can totally use a staff or rod as an improvised weapon. Rods generally behave like improvised light maces (1d6 damage light weapon) and staves like improvised quarterstaves (1d6/1d6 double weapon). Wands are very light ("no more than 1 ounce") and fragile ("1/4 inch thick"), meaning you probably can't use them as improvised weapons.

But even if you can, you don't get the magical stuff of an item when you use it as an improvised weapon (cf. this FAQ).

RigaMortus wrote:
The wand deals fire damage of 5d6 as stated above.

No, it doesn't. A spell cast from the weand may deal 5d6 fire damage, but not the wand itself used as an improvised weapon. If you hit someone with a Wand of Fireball, you deal 0 fire damage, and thus don't trigger Blistering Feint.


You can use it as improvised weapon, but capable of shooting fireball is different with dealing fire damage.


Is this some harry potter theme, fighting with wands


As the previous posters have said, a wand is not a weapon or even suitable as an improvised weapon. Perhaps you could use one as an improvised weapon if you dipped the end of a metal wand in a sticky flammable substance and lit it on fire (see torch). However, it would be not very effective and watch out for sunder or disarm.

Alternately, is there a way to make a weapon/wand combo? Isn't there something that lets you meld/put a wand into a weapon and use the wand from inside the weapon. Perhaps a spell or weapon property? I seem to recall there being something like this...but memory is the 2nd thing to go with age, I just wish I could remember what was 1st.


Valandil Ancalime wrote:

As the previous posters have said, a wand is not a weapon or even suitable as an improvised weapon. Perhaps you could use one as an improvised weapon if you dipped the end of a metal wand in a sticky flammable substance and lit it on fire (see torch). However, it would be not very effective and watch out for sunder or disarm.

Alternately, is there a way to make a weapon/wand combo? Isn't there something that lets you meld/put a wand into a weapon and use the wand from inside the weapon. Perhaps a spell or weapon property? I seem to recall there being something like this...but memory is the 2nd thing to go with age, I just wish I could remember what was 1st.

There's technically nothing stopping you from enchanting any object in any shape as another thing. You *can* make a sword a wand as well, by using the "item slot swapping" clause, but it's generally a bad idea to have to whip out your sword to fix that stubbed toe for example in an intrigue setting. Also its probably bad because the GM should be applying a surcharge on that enchanting for bypassing slot/handedness rules, especially as slotless items *do have a 100% tax* built into their design.


AwesomenessDog wrote:
There's technically nothing stopping you from enchanting any object in any shape as another thing. You *can* make a sword a wand as well, by using the "item slot swapping" clause, but it's generally a bad idea to have to whip out your sword to fix that stubbed toe for example in an intrigue setting. Also its probably bad because the GM should be applying a surcharge on that enchanting for bypassing slot/handedness rules, especially as slotless items *do have a 100% tax* built into their design.

IMO this is more than "item slot swapping". If you want to make a sword/wand it would be either "Altering Existing Items" or Multiple Different Abilities. I would probably go with Multiple Different Abilities and you would need pay for both a magic sword and the wand.

Dark Archive

you would need gloves of improvised might with the flaming property


Valandil Ancalime wrote:
AwesomenessDog wrote:
There's technically nothing stopping you from enchanting any object in any shape as another thing. You *can* make a sword a wand as well, by using the "item slot swapping" clause, but it's generally a bad idea to have to whip out your sword to fix that stubbed toe for example in an intrigue setting. Also its probably bad because the GM should be applying a surcharge on that enchanting for bypassing slot/handedness rules, especially as slotless items *do have a 100% tax* built into their design.
IMO this is more than "item slot swapping". If you want to make a sword/wand it would be either "Altering Existing Items" or Multiple Different Abilities. I would probably go with Multiple Different Abilities and you would need pay for both a magic sword and the wand.

Oh yes, sorry, multiple abilities I thought was a given, but also I was pointing out the perhaps less obvious surcharge above multiple abilities of changing/removing a slot.


You could consider the Brazen Flame alternate racial ability.


(rod, staff, wand)
first, some of the items ARE defined as weapons, so using them as 'improvised' means using them 'incorrectly/inappropriately' and they lose their damage, critical range, range, reach, special abilities. They do maintain their special material (like cold iron).

secondly, improvised weapons use size & mass to determine damage which is a clear disadvantage. Review RAW for damage type(bldgn), crit rng, etc.

The GM will determine if the item is fragile(gains broken condition on Nat "1"). Note it takes damage less hardness in an attack. That could break a wand.


Ok so what if I was a Fire Kineticist and used Kinetic Blade on my sword, which deals my Kinetic Blast damage (Fire)... Could I then use Blistering Feint and deal fire damage with my weapon (the sword) which is now "enchanted" with Fire damage?


RigaMortus wrote:
Ok so what if I was a Fire Kineticist and used Kinetic Blade on my sword, which deals my Kinetic Blast damage (Fire)... Could I then use Blistering Feint and deal fire damage with my weapon (the sword) which is now "enchanted" with Fire damage?

kinetic blade IS the sword, but to your point, yes, that should work. I do think Blistering Feint is poorly worded; probably should have said “deals fire damage on a melee hit”. How much fire damage does a Balor’s Lash do? Or a Fiery Boulder (or an Alchemist bomb w/fire damage) used as an Improvised Weapon? I think it’s fair to say Wand of Fireballs doesn’t do fire damage, it casts a spell, and the spell does the fire damage. But other items just directly do fire damage (Hellcaller’s Edge, Flametongue), so that criterion doesn’t fully resolve things. I think mostly you just pretend it says “fire damage on a melee hit”, and go from there; as such, Kinetic Blade and Flame Blade do full damage. Which is fine.


Valandil Ancalime wrote:

As the previous posters have said, a wand is not a weapon or even suitable as an improvised weapon. Perhaps you could use one as an improvised weapon if you dipped the end of a metal wand in a sticky flammable substance and lit it on fire (see torch). However, it would be not very effective and watch out for sunder or disarm.

Alternately, is there a way to make a weapon/wand combo? Isn't there something that lets you meld/put a wand into a weapon and use the wand from inside the weapon. Perhaps a spell or weapon property? I seem to recall there being something like this...but memory is the 2nd thing to go with age, I just wish I could remember what was 1st.

Weaponwand spell


RigaMortus at this point you are seeking min/max build advice in the Rules forum.
You need the Advice forum.


bbangerter wrote:
Valandil Ancalime wrote:

...

Alternately, is there a way to make a weapon/wand combo? Isn't there something that lets you meld/put a wand into a weapon and use the wand from inside the weapon. Perhaps a spell or weapon property? I seem to recall there being something like this...but memory is the 2nd thing to go with age, I just wish I could remember what was 1st.

Weaponwand spell

Thanks, I thought there was something along these lines.

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