Your Kineticist Experience so far?


Advice

1 to 50 of 427 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>

Background:
My group is about to wrap up Age of Ashes - we've been told we may hit 20th by next session, so we're brainstorming characters for our next AP now.

I've played a gnome Bard to great effect so far - it's been a complicated, meticulous blast to play.

Our next AP is slated to be Outlaws of Alkenstar and we've got a Fighter, Barb, Inventor so far (5 player party including me)

My plans were either a Wellspring Sorcerer, new Witch (maybe too close to my previous bard) or a Fire/Wood Kineticist.

I've seen a lot of content around the Kineticist and have a good idea how it functions - but there's very little feedback that I've seen about how people are *enjoying* the class.

So those of you that have a few levels of real play experience under your belt, what do you like about it?


I like that I rarely ever have turns during which I just do nothing, because between a fullcaster-proficiency 2-action impulse and a martial-ish-proficiency blast every turn, the chances that nothing at all sticks are negligible.
Though since that pattern is so incentivized, it also risks becoming a bit static unless you have the air impulse junction (very fun). I haven't run the numbers exactly, but your blast should do more than a caster's first Strike or a martial's second Strike, and so it is more painful to give that up for a move than on those other classes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I played one briefly through a short 4-combat one-shot.

I found that they are powerhouses in combat. As yellowpete mentioned, they always have something useful to do each round. They can be built to do a lot of different things, such as blasting damage, crowd control, preventing damage, or healing.

I also find that out of combat they are a bit lacking. They get the basic levels of skill boosts that all other characters get, they have no incentive to raise INT to get more, and no skills are keyed on CON. So your best skills are going to be rolling at about 2 points lower than your allies best skills. And unlike full spellcasters, you don't have the full spell toolbox to use to offset that.

But at the end of the day, how fun a character is depends a lot more on how your table of players is rather than how mechanically powerful your character is.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

On the other hand, the class is very light on stat use, so it's pretty flexible on what skills you do take. But yes, they're on the weaker side outside of combat, unless it's a situation where their impulses are relevant.

I had a GM just look at me and then skip over a "find food and water for the people you're rescuing" bit because I was playing a Water/Wood kineticist. And instead of rolling survival or something I can just Base Kinesis fresh water and vegetables out of thin air, without limit.


Awesome, this is all very helpful so far.

Depending on the player & element, I could see that you can get a ton of mileage from your base kinesis outside of combat - which could probably shore up some of those skill & utility shortcomings.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I started an android pyrokineticist in PFS. So far it's been terribly lackluster. I don't have much to contribute out of combat and even in combat I find that I do less damage than anyone else more often than not.

I've heard that pyrokineticist does more damage than other kineticist options, but I'm not seeing it just yet.

Grand Lodge

You don't have your Strength modifier added to melee blasts.

That's definitely the entire problem.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

With a +1 STR bonus, I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference.

But Flying Flame: 1d6 to a large number of enemies (and without a risk of harming allies) for 2 actions certainly seems like plenty of damage to me. What other level 1 character is going to be doing more than that?


It seems like weapon infusion is a huge feat to have early.

With weapon infusion (thrown weapon) your 2 action ranged blasts add Con + Str (@30'max) and your 1 actions just add Str - right? I hope I've interpreted that correctly.

Starting with 18 con and 14 str seems like it'd be a huge help to your early level damage.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Minor correction, but it doesn't change your analysis:

It is 20 foot range increment for thrown to add your full Strength bonus.

Propulsive will have a 50 foot range increment but will only add half your strength bonus.

Wayfinders Contributor

Both my kineticists are low level, but I really enjoy them so far.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Burntgerb wrote:

It seems like weapon infusion is a huge feat to have early.

With weapon infusion (thrown weapon) your 2 action ranged blasts add Con + Str (@30'max) and your 1 actions just add Str - right? I hope I've interpreted that correctly.

Starting with 18 con and 14 str seems like it'd be a huge help to your early level damage.

2 action blast also triggers your Junction for solo gate.

Finoan wrote:
But Flying Flame: 1d6 to a large number of enemies (and without a risk of harming allies) for 2 actions certainly seems like plenty of damage to me.

Minor correction.

It's 1d8 as a solo fire.

Verdant Wheel

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Kite is a wood & air kineticist with strength for up close melee blasts. I love his ability to heal out of combat, and his magical girl transformations when his armor flies on. It feels really appropriate to have a leaf leshy be a wind and wood kineticist, and I feel like I'm always participating.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Kineticist looks like a slower build up class, but once it gets rolling should be pretty strong.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Kineticist looks like a slower build up class, but once it gets rolling should be pretty strong.

That's my hope. That I will be powerful. Some day.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Fire benefits significantly from level 5 and taking the aura junction. It's very easy to apply 2-3 ticks of fire a round to everything to trigger that weakness over and over. (Thermal Nimbus, Flying Flame, Elemental Blast will basically always do 2 hits in aoe of it, plus decent odds of a third hit to on target). It's basically an automatic 4 damage to all enemies in 10', Flying Flame is 3d8 (+2 weakness), and your blast is 2d8 (+2 weakness). The damage also increases every level since your aura bumps on even levels and Flying Flame on odd.

A quick skim of enemies at level 3 is most stuff in the range of 30-60 HP, so a lot of standard enemy compositions greatly suffer from that. Definitely weaker at single target, but I think it should still hold up well on a single level 7 target? (Mostly 100-130 HP, but assuming hard DCs/reflex saves by level... I get 18.2 DPR)

Bonus points in that it doesn't need Safe Elements for its damage aura since it applies fire resistance to your allies.

For a comparison to the build I'm planning on with water/wood - I'd be looking at Safe Elements+Hail of Splinters turn 1, and turn 2 Winter's Clutch+Blast (which gets... 9.2 the first round and 15 after that, assuming bleed doesn't end). Upside is this probably offers more defense as it can pivot to healing/trees, and has Winter Sleet on the aura to debuff... I'm not entirely sure mono-fire is doing quite enough damage under these assumptions compared to the utility elsewhere. I wonder if bleed immunity (that can't be bypassed via Extract Elements) is more common than fire?

Although I should note that level 5 may be a bad comparison point, as the water/wood build gains no damage at 6, and the fire build adds 3.15 or so). The odd levels scale slightly better for the water/wood (1.375 bleed), but not as well as the even levels do for mono-fire. Of course, mono fire isn't burning a whole turn setting up damage each round (and Hail of Splinters is much swingier - since the save for the bleed is all up front, it's got high variance on that part of the damage)

I do wonder if the base damage of fire needs to be a little better though - it's definitely the best scaling damage build, but it doesn't offer as much utility and seems like it ends up being one-note burn everything easily.

One last edit: Thinking about it though... Flying Flame has a big advantage in the boss fight for being trivial to hit with without hitting allies. Winter's Clutch is easy to place but if allies are setting up flanks there's no way to land it safely (Assuming orthogonal and not diagonal flanking). I'd have to use Safe Elements to make it land or switch my routine completely - either way loses significant damage (At least 4/round), so fire may be fine there. Air is the only other element with as easy a way to aim AoEs (Aerial Boomerang being a line - even if you never recall it, they should be easily be able to align a safe shot and then blast each turn thanks to their impulse junction), everything else is cones or bursts for their early options. (Or a wide line, in one case, but it still has trouble landing on a boss engaged by multiple allies)


Important note: Talk to your GM about how they want to handle base and extended kinesis, especially proliferate. The rules are vague and up to interpretation. Make sure you are on the same page.


I think some of the "not so great out of combat" is tied to the skill junction not being available until level 5 and rarely being anybody's top choice. Since if you want to build for it, the Air, Earth, and Fire Kineticists can be genuinely good at Stealth, Athletics, and Intimidation (which are useful skills) but much of "you're actually good at it" doesn't come on until much later.


Ravingdork wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
Kineticist looks like a slower build up class, but once it gets rolling should be pretty strong.
That's my hope. That I will be powerful. Some day.

assuming they are in range.

Doing flying flame + 1 action blast (xd8 with half on save + xd6)
will be more than
2 action blast + 1 action blast (xd8+4 + xd6 at -5)

And at level 5, you flying flame will trigger the weakness even on a save. So that adds up.

Also, scorching column will do a bit more damage than flying flame. Harder to target, but put it in an enemy and they will need to move for some extra.

Probably depends on your party which is best.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

I play a wood/earth Kineticist (Level 5) in society and it kicks ass. In combat as everyone said above its always a good time. I run weapon infusion which means I can engage no matter what range the enemy is which has mattered in every combat I've fought in. The area of effect is nice with hail of splinters and tumbling logs, I have heavy armor to tank with armor in earth, my impulse junction gives me 5 temp hp for breathing. In combat its a SOLID class and next level I get some amazing area control with the jagged berms composite impulse. Somehow I forgot to mention Tree Sentinel which deletes 30 damage on the board each round I use it.

Outside of combat I've invested in fresh produce for some healing and nature/athletics for my two major skills. Athletics is pretty consistently useful as a Str kineticist but I'm not super useful in exploration. My nature expertise does make me feel decent at RK in certain environments through. Along with survival when its necessary. Also thanks to this being society I have a hireling to talk for me when Im forced to make a diplomacy check.

Overall in combat is a helluva time, probably my favourite class in the game. Outside of combat you are about as useful as a barbarian or fighter. You can contribute if you're in a scenario built to your niche but otherwise, kick back a little and share the spotlight.


I'm running an air/fire kineticist in Agents of Edgewatch right now, level 7 about to hit 8. He doesn't hit as hard as the monk and fighter do every round, but he isn't afraid to use his big powers like the sorcerer is. I have him built around mobility, hit and run tactics. Flying Flame is a must for sure. The ability to hit multiple targets in a crowded room without harming your team is so helpful. He does make use of weapon infusion and versatile blast. Basically whatever damage type I need, or need to avoid, I got it covered. I'm pushing that medicine skill and do a pretty good job of filling in for a cleric without going wood or water element. Though to be fair everyone in the group is using the medicine skill to help fill the role of a missing healer.


Ravingdork wrote:

I started an android pyrokineticist in PFS. So far it's been terribly lackluster. I don't have much to contribute out of combat and even in combat I find that I do less damage than anyone else more often than not.

I've heard that pyrokineticist does more damage than other kineticist options, but I'm not seeing it just yet.

Pyrokineticist DPR strongly depends from its Aura Junction to get strong offensive power and due this they need some build up to get stronger usually needing to get Aura Shaping and Thermal Nimbus to become really efficient as DPR. But this also creates a problem for PFS games thats the fact that they really shines after level 10 and most PFS adventures doesn't go longer than this unless they are an AP. So you may not get a good experience playing as a pure Pyrokineticist unless you are playing an AP.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tree...trees...trees.... My DM hated that I basically spammed Protector tree and shut down at least 2 of the 4 encounters we had because of low level trees. Also having healing sorta just...

Metal/Wood duel-gate with Weapon infusion is nutty as you can get. I have a 100 ft blast, a protector tree, metal armor + Shield and I was gonna fork the path and get water for healing. Since we played when we thought Death and Wounded stack, thank god it doesn't.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Death generally overrides and invalidates wounded, does it not? :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.

When kineticist released I was playing a medium armor wearing frontline wizard using a bunch of gouging claw and shocking grasp casting, and the telekinesis themed psychic.

I immediately switched the wizard to a metal kineticist (same character, new mechanics, yet same overall play-style of getting into melee range, raising a shield, and doing slashing or electrical damage). The character has been great, and I've recently leveled up and expanded into fire to combo with the flames oracle in the party but we've been underwater since leveling up so that hasn't really panned out just yet.

I initially thought I'd stay with the psychic, but after a few weeks I got an itch to see what an air kineticist could do because it seemed like a similar play-style to how I was trying to telekinetically slash enemies to pieces was possible, because I wasn't really liking the inconsistent performance of the unleash psyche cycle while trying to be "the dps". Using weapon infusion to tweak my blasts for the best damage potential on any given turn (such as going backswing then agile in melee, or using thrown or propulsive to boost ranged damage when not in melee range) has been great, and the action condensing of the air impulse junction letting me get some movement with each 2-ation impulse is a nice cherry on top.

It has easily jumped up the rankings to be competitive with my prior two favorite classes (fighter and wizard) so there's no longer a massive gulf between my top two slots and the rest of the classes.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I recently started playing my first Kineticist in PFS.

I knew I wanted Wood for the Tree. And yes, it is awesome.

I went with a Taralu dwarf because I aimed for the Air/Wood build. I thought of Keftiu when doing this, with a big smile.

I had the opportunity to rebuild the character several times thanks to still being level 1 and doing several quests and bounties.

I tried Fire/Wood, Water/Wood, Pure Wood and came back to Fire/Wood.

And always a Taralu Dwarf.

I considered changing him to a Human Pure Fire/MC Flames Oracle for pure DPR. But it would be too different from what I enjoy in my Kineticist. Especially no more Tree.

So, I will definitely keep him as a Fire/Wood Taralu, likely Adopted by Humans to get Natural Ambition down the line. It is that powerful for the class. And maybe Fork the Path at 5th to Air or Water most likely.

Because this elemental combo I ended up choosing gives me the powers I most enjoy with this PC (support + offense and no Overflow).

But I only found out after trying some of the others.

So, I would strongly advise negotiating beforehand the possibility of a few rebuilds early on until you get the feel for your Kineticist.

It is an awesome Class, very versatile and different in its playstyle. But once you've chosen your starting elements, you're bound to your chosen thematic powers and cannot deviate for a while.

So, choose well.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I'm very early into playing a single-focused Dwarf earth kineticist going into Stalwart Defender. Seems like she'll be a delightfully tanky tank -- AC and hp are ridiculous for her level, and she packs quite the melee wallop. But it's still early days.

Anyone else have actual experience with a build like this at higher levels?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I have more experience now with the kineticist.

Fire kineticist does a ton of damage. It tends to stack up as they use their aura, AoE, and blasts. Solar Detonation is brutal. Flying Flame is a good surgical AoE to pair with blasts while you're using Thermal Nimbus to burn people. The Fire Aura junction is a nice damage booster. The layered damage effects really add up in battles making fire brutal.

I'm a fire/metal kineticist. I haven't really been using too many metal impulses, though I do have Clad in Treasure. So far hasn't been necessary.

Kineticist is fairly action intensive. Hard to use multiple impulses. Overflow impulses are generally usable every other round depending on movement and action cost. Solar Detonation definitely every other round right now.

I would say Kineticist is pretty fun. Very versatile class.

Main thing I wish is Elemental Apotheosis wasn't a single gate forever feat. Really ruins the value of that feat, though I can understand it as everyone would take the air elemental speeds if they could.

So far I would say Fire Kineticist is the best damage dealer of the group. They do brutal damage after you layer everything in.


Deriven Firelion wrote:

I have more experience now with the kineticist.

Fire kineticist does a ton of damage. It tends to stack up as they use their aura, AoE, and blasts. Solar Detonation is brutal. Flying Flame is a good surgical AoE to pair with blasts while you're using Thermal Nimbus to burn people. The Fire Aura junction is a nice damage booster. The layered damage effects really add up in battles making fire brutal.
...
So far I would say Fire Kineticist is the best damage dealer of the group. They do brutal damage after you layer everything in.

Now you got in practice how the fire kineticists are strong staking multiple impulse/aura effects but similar to many casters dmg kineticists really shines in mid to high levels.

What is your level now?

Deriven Firelion wrote:
I'm a fire/metal kineticist. I haven't really been using too many metal impulses, though I do have Clad in Treasure. So far hasn't been necessary.

Metal is an odd element. It's difficult to justify it in many cases because it has a strange mix of too different impulses. The most low levels are pretty meh while some high level ones like Shattershields, Alloy Flesh and Steel and Hell of 1,000,000 Needles are pretty good.

It's an element difficult to justify many things and isn't uncommon that you are able to do many things that metal does with other elements better. I really have difficult to understand and love it.

Deriven Firelion wrote:
Kineticist is fairly action intensive. Hard to use multiple impulses. Overflow impulses are generally usable every other round depending on movement and action cost. Solar Detonation definitely every other round right now.

Overflows IMO are like "special attacks" to use when the conditions are favorable to them, outside this usually is better to have a good rotation of non-overflow + blasts and keep some stance effect.


I'm level 11 now. Solar Detonation is my favorite impulse so far. It is brutal when it works.

Is there any way to heal in ferrous form or do you have to survive until it is done?


Deriven Firelion wrote:

I'm level 11 now. Solar Detonation is my favorite impulse so far. It is brutal when it works.

Is there any way to heal in ferrous form or do you have to survive until it is done?

Far as I'm aware, there's no healing source without the healing trait. Nothing stopping you from getting a renewable source of temp hp though.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I changed to earth. I don't see enough good in metal to stay metal. Fire and Earth seems like a great mix of offense and defense. Living Volcano. DM said it was ok.

Metal hast that cool of Hell of a Thousand Needles which looks amazing.

Earth has a bunch of nice stances and impulses. Even Lava Leap is pretty cool.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Deriven Firelion wrote:

I'm level 11 now. Solar Detonation is my favorite impulse so far. It is brutal when it works.

Is there any way to heal in ferrous form or do you have to survive until it is done?

The kineticist version (Alloy Flesh and Steel) needs to be sustained so you can end it just stop to sustain it (you also can use Dismiss it but its basically a waste of an action) be healed and then Impulse it again in your next turn. It's also have another advantage over the spell version is that when you sustain it its rises any steel shied that you have (including the shield provided by Metal Carapace) that in combination with Effortless Impulse basically gives a free-action Rise a Shield (I know you don't like this mechanic Firelion but the main idea here is to sum the Physical Resistance with Shield Hardness to get a great dmg reduction).

The obviou disadvantage its that it occupies your Effortless Impulse action (that you may want to use with other thing later like Ignite the Sun) yet if you don't plan to use other sustainable impulse be able to "dismiss" and resourceless reimpulse the ferrous form makes it a fully advantage.


YuriP wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:

I'm level 11 now. Solar Detonation is my favorite impulse so far. It is brutal when it works.

Is there any way to heal in ferrous form or do you have to survive until it is done?

The kineticist version (Alloy Flesh and Steel) needs to be sustained so you can end it just stop to sustain it (you also can use Dismiss it but its basically a waste of an action) be healed and then Impulse it again in your next turn. It's also have another advantage over the spell version is that when you sustain it its rises any steel shied that you have (including the shield provided by Metal Carapace) that in combination with Effortless Impulse basically gives a free-action Rise a Shield (I know you don't like this mechanic Firelion but the main idea here is to sum the Physical Resistance with Shield Hardness to get a great dmg reduction).

The obviou disadvantage its that it occupies your Effortless Impulse action (that you may want to use with other thing later like Ignite the Sun) yet if you don't plan to use other sustainable impulse be able to "dismiss" and resourceless reimpulse the ferrous form makes it a fully advantage.

Me? I like Raise a Shield. I use it on a lot different characters.

Or do you mean I don't like the Metal Carapace because it is destroyed on a crit? That is true. I don't like Metal Carapace due to its crit destruction as monsters seem to crit a lot.

I think I prefer Earth Armor.


Deriven Firelion wrote:

I changed to earth. I don't see enough good in metal to stay metal. Fire and Earth seems like a great mix of offense and defense. Living Volcano. DM said it was ok.

Metal hast that cool of Hell of a Thousand Needles which looks amazing.

Earth has a bunch of nice stances and impulses. Even Lava Leap is pretty cool.

I agree. Earth is my preferred side element for fire kineticists. IMO metal is better as for single element kineticists or in combination with water only because its an element that doesn't get strong sustainable impulses and lacks of defensive impulses.

Deriven Firelion wrote:
Me? I like Raise a Shield. I use it on a lot different characters.

No I'm talking about the resistance mechanics operating apart to hardness mechanics and being able to stack. I remember you complaining about this and about of lack of clarity with hardness mechanics.


I played an earth fire build, D'vargen Firebeard, in a buddy's homebrew (just switched to a new PC magus bc D'vargen became a town mayor and narratively I figured he wouldn't shirk his duties to go off adventuring).

Anyway, had swim through earth and burning jet for various forms of mobility/ exploration shenanigans. Eternal torch let the poor non dwarves have some utility to see in the dark. Armor in earth gave me that sweet heavy armor. tremor and falling stones gave me some damage/ control. Flying flame, blazing wave, and solar detonation gave me damage and aoe. It was a fun character I got to play from lvl 6 to lvl 12. He felt like a clearly themed caster who traded his spell lists worth of versatility to have constant thematic ability on tap (and 9 or 10 spells is still plenty, honestly). Hearing about the Solarion and its kineticist-esque mechanics has me happy to see that slotless spellcasting may still have a future in the two systems (obviously not in something as labor intensive as the kineticist.....which is 7 slotless caster classes and their combinations worth of feats stuffed in one class...truly sounds like a nightmare to create and balance but im glad they knocked it out of the park). P2E monster stats and spell balance feels SOOO much better when the stakes are only as high as a martial strike (im being reductive here but being slotless feels great).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
WWHsmackdown wrote:
and 9 or 10 spells is still plenty, honestly

Don't say that or come 3rd Edition, that's all we'll have.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
and 9 or 10 spells is still plenty, honestly
Don't say that or come 3rd Edition, that's all we'll have.

Honestly I think that the spells for a new edition need a pretty good compression (many spell could be turned into some kind of heightening or spellshate). We have a pretty high number of spells that could be optimized in many ways. IMO the kineticist's impulses only proves it.


I've been liking Earth a lot so far.

It feels well balanced and it's aura junction gives a nice semi-tank ability.


YuriP wrote:
Honestly I think that the spells for a new edition need a pretty good compression (many spell could be turned into some kind of heightening or spellshate).

Yeah, there's definitely a possibility for moving to a more 'build-a-bear' type spell design rather than the classic D&D giant list of 'here's a blast. Here's the same blast in cold. Here's the same blast but fewer targets at longer range...'

***

Back to the original topic. What do you all think of the strengths or 'role' of Water, Metal, and Wood? Fire, Air, and Earth strengths are pretty easy to figure out (damage, scouting/mobility, melee). Wood seems to be great for party defense but I'm not sure. Water..is that battlefield control what with all the pushing and terrain effects? Metal? I'm not sure of those.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
YuriP wrote:
Honestly I think that the spells for a new edition need a pretty good compression (many spell could be turned into some kind of heightening or spellshate). We have a pretty high number of spells that could be optimized in many ways. IMO the kineticist's impulses only proves it.

Agreed, compress spells and use it as justification for multi action differences and heightened options where possible.

But 3e is a long way away still what with the remaster being fresh.


Easl wrote:
Back to the original topic. What do you all think of the strengths or 'role' of Water, Metal, and Wood? Fire, Air, and Earth strengths are pretty easy to figure out (damage, scouting/mobility, melee). Wood seems to be great for party defense but I'm not sure. Water..is that battlefield control what with all the pushing and terrain effects? Metal? I'm not sure of those.

The most obvious aspect of water + wood is healing. You can get a good amount of healing impulses together if you have both elements. Depending of you level and if you have Battle Medicine may be enought to deal the role of off-healer once that most encounter usually doesn't have enough rounds to put all your healing impulses in cooldown.

Metal + Wood could be benefit due a great damage reduction to protect you allies (due Timber Sentinel + Shattershields) while you can keep yourself well protected by Metal Carapace/Hardwood Armor + Shattershields + Alloy Flesh and Steel. Curiously Timber Sentinel doesn't work for the kineticist that casted it because you are not your own ally. Yet its a pretty interesting protective combination but being a bit selfish once that Timber Sentinel doesn't work on yourself I still prefer to have Water + Metal instead due many lower level water impulses are better IMO while you get better high level metal impulses and get some good healing from water impulses.

A 3 elements combination might work but honestly I don't see a significant benefit from this.

For single element kineticist probably metal is the better option because IMO is a more versatile element that merges self defense impulse with some (high level) good offensive impulses and some interesting (mid level) ally protection impulses.
Single element water impulse are good field controllers and good off-healers but lacks from defensive impulses, lacks from good high level offensive impulses and are too overflow dependend.
And single element wood kineticists are pretty all rounder but at same time a pretty duck (ducks can do everything, they can fly, can walk and can swim but when compared to specialized animals the lose to almost everyone) I honestly don't see too much reasons to take wood alone usually its better to take it + some other element to compensate the wood mediocreness.
Being honest unless for lore reasons usually get a single element kineticist doesn't worth at all.

Liberty's Edge

Easl wrote:
YuriP wrote:
Honestly I think that the spells for a new edition need a pretty good compression (many spell could be turned into some kind of heightening or spellshate).

Yeah, there's definitely a possibility for moving to a more 'build-a-bear' type spell design rather than the classic D&D giant list of 'here's a blast. Here's the same blast in cold. Here's the same blast but fewer targets at longer range...'

***

Back to the original topic. What do you all think of the strengths or 'role' of Water, Metal, and Wood? Fire, Air, and Earth strengths are pretty easy to figure out (damage, scouting/mobility, melee). Wood seems to be great for party defense but I'm not sure. Water..is that battlefield control what with all the pushing and terrain effects? Metal? I'm not sure of those.

From my experience of 1st level Wood Kineticist, Wood seems to be mostly about damage mitigation.

And a kind of Cleric-Lite feeling against undead.


YuriP wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:

I changed to earth. I don't see enough good in metal to stay metal. Fire and Earth seems like a great mix of offense and defense. Living Volcano. DM said it was ok.

Metal hast that cool of Hell of a Thousand Needles which looks amazing.

Earth has a bunch of nice stances and impulses. Even Lava Leap is pretty cool.

I agree. Earth is my preferred side element for fire kineticists. IMO metal is better as for single element kineticists or in combination with water only because its an element that doesn't get strong sustainable impulses and lacks of defensive impulses.

Deriven Firelion wrote:
Me? I like Raise a Shield. I use it on a lot different characters.
No I'm talking about the resistance mechanics operating apart to hardness mechanics and being able to stack. I remember you complaining about this and about of lack of clarity with hardness mechanics.

Oh, ok. I would prefer clarification. I went with aggregate Hardness and put it in the damage chain above resistances and weaknesses. The resist all was a little too good with Sturdy Shields and the coming Sturdy rune equivalent.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:

From my experience of 1st level Wood Kineticist, Wood seems to be mostly about damage mitigation.

And a kind of Cleric-Lite feeling against undead.

Yeah. I can see sustaining sangvolient roots while adding a protector tree each round as a pretty powerful damage mitigation combo. Cast it near the party's front line, you're doing a bit of damage to *every* enemy bothering your tank, healing *every* melee PC in range some small amount, while absorbing the first 40 HP of damage that tank takes (at level 8, when you get Sang. Roots). And that's every round, because Timber Sentinel is non-overflow. (Also, neither are a stance, so with some preparation you could have a stance going too). Meanwhile a L8 critter does, what, 20-30 damage per strike? So that's almost nullifying a single equivalent level critter completely, while damaging it's friends and healing, depending on placement, everyone in the party. Every round. It ain't flashy, but that's a heckuva 'meat wall' sort of strategy.

Still trying to figure out Water's role. It's healing has the "immune for 10 minutes" effect so you won't be spamming that the way Sang. roots works. That's more of a 'save until needed' role. I am thinking that both Winter Sleet and Winter's Clutch can be used to immobilize an opponent, then either let your damage dealers take them out or do so yourself with Call the Hurricane. But I have no idea. Winter Sleet does seem some pretty nasty battlefield control though, and using EB to push your enemies into areas where you want them is also control.

Which is a long way around to saying I'm curious as to the experiences of players who have played it, as I haven't.


Easl wrote:
Still trying to figure out Water's role.

I would kinda go by the gate Junction as the role.

Air: mobility
Earth: defense
Fire: more damage
Metal: damage when hit
Water: forced movement
Wood: protection.

But also accept that not everything needs to be in that role. Every element has a wall for instance.


I mostly agree but I increase the roles a bit:

Air: Mobility, Stealth, long-range dmg impulses
Earth: Defense, short-range/melee damage, short-range dmg impulses.
Fire: High-damage, mixed range dmg impulses
Metal: Defense, Protection, mixed-range dmg impulses
Water: Battlefield control, healing, mixed-range dmg impulses, low-damage
Wood: Defense, Protection, healing, low-damage


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I have a hard time seeing myself every playing one of the other caster classes after playing a Kineticist.

It is just fun, and has the right level of versatility for what I seek.

I like that I can build for my desired purpose and can keep playing my character without artificial gatekeeping in daily rests.

Having spent the last 20 years in MMOs; the Energy of Particles in Motion class is just how I see 'Magic User / Mage'. If only it was named fittingly...

I'm playing one right now that is Fire / Water in a free archetype game where she is also a Bard. That does bring out one class flaw for me. If we did not have Free Archetype my character might not be dynamic enough 'outside of combat' as every last class feat goes towards impulses and the number of skills I had was not as ideal. But I'm not yet sold on this - I need to play in a game without Free Archetype and compare.

Another "problem" is poor synergy with other classes. You're main stat is Con and you have your thing and it's oil to everyone else's water. In a Free Archetype game there is very little to 'gain' from any choice. At least in terms of combat.
- This is just as easily a boon. I felt zero pressure to make a pick to power up my character as I do with any other class. So I just went 100% roleplay in my choice. She's a Bard because her roots are as an entertainer (she's a Hurdy Gurdy musician). And I took Bard abilities based on social aspects. My spells of the archetype limited to summoning an instrument and boosting the results of performances.

That said... I just hit level 4 and have my first "meta pick" of the free archetype in Hymn of Healing. I can now spam 2 different heals. At level 6 I will be spamming a third heal. And at level 8 I plan to pick up Blessed One (though I won't need it) for a fourth heal just to stay on theme.

(I might instead take summoner just to have the merge feature so that she can be "The Elven Torch". It's an off meta pick that is actually weak in combat - but it fits me in theme.)

With most characters I wouldn't be thinking of quirky roleplay choices for the free archetype, I'd be thinking "well, if I took this I can maximize by ability to do that in combat."

The poor synergy weirdly frees up my choices.

Everything about the class is fun for me.

So, major win.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Burntgerb wrote:
Depending on the player & element, I could see that you can get a ton of mileage from your base kinesis outside of combat

Yep. Playing through the initial action scene of an Adventure Path module where all these rooms in one hallway were on fire the GM starts with wanting me to keep making checks and I just point out:

"I have an unlimited ability to douse flames and produce water, and one of my impulses basically blasts a 30-foot long conal fire hydrant - and I can just stand here and keep that going 24/7... So... should we just skip to the part where I'm done putting the fire out?"

Which reminds me of a negative:

As a fire kineticist, I can make a glowing ball of fire to light the area around me. But how big is that light, and why does Foundry have no idea what to do with that ability? In the end I've taken to just dragging the effect of the "light" spell onto my character and mentioning that I need to burn an action to keep moving this ball around with me (next session I will switch to using the dancing lights spell - I just now remembered that Foundry puts those as objects on the map, so it will be clear that I have to move them. Except I only have 1).

On weird synergy logic flaws:

I am walking around inside of a 20-foot diameter ball of fire and water churning all around me.

Yet nobody around me is warm. I can stealth while being a 20-foot diameter ball of fire, it makes no sound that interrupts any other sounds, and I can talk, walk, act, and eat normally...

Ok.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Finoan wrote:
But Flying Flame: 1d6 to a large number of enemies (and without a risk of harming allies) for 2 actions certainly seems like plenty of damage to me. What other level 1 character is going to be doing more than that?

Watch your path with that. It only goes 30 feet and it will fry your allies if you can't draw that line without going through them. That includes yourself. If you need to hit targets on each side of you - chances are you will also be hitting yourself.

ZZZ
XYX
ZZZ

- If you are Y and need to hit X and X, and the Z's are your allies or walls, you're hitting yourself as well, or at least one Z if it's not an obstruction.

1 to 50 of 427 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Your Kineticist Experience so far? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.