I built a Remaster cleric. How does it compare to a 2e cleric?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber


This is my first attempt at building a cleric/warpriest using the new Remaster rules.
How do you think it compares to a normal 2e cleric/warpriest?

You can find some of my ideas on tactics for the character here.


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Some things I noticed:

- Significantly better saves with Raise Symbol.
- Very good amount of font-slots despite no Charisma.
- Reduced MADness allows for max font slots while retaining max Wisdom for counteract checks and spell DC/attack.
- No need for Charisma means Boosts for Dex to make the ranged attacks actually useful. Also helps with saves and Dex-Skills.
- Shield + Rune result in a shield with decent effect that's almost as durable as a sturdy shield.

This character would have loked quite different pre-master. Overall, this seems like a very good improvement. And you didn't even make use of most of the new warpriest stuff, so there's quite a bit of potential flexibility to shift the build more into warpriest or (thanks to full wisdom and full font) even more into a caster direction.


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Yes it is reasonable. I think that shield using war priests are going to become a staple of the remastered game. It makes a lot of sense tactically and thematically.

Some of the biggest improvements are inherent in the spells Bless and Protection. They make divine casters useful buffers at the cost of cheap low level spell slots.


Also any form of unarmed or free-hand favoured weapon is going to be a good choice for a warpriest: Rune access, staff, and shield.

Irori is pretty good, variable font and sanctification(unholy heal is going to be really funny) and Ragathiel has always been the bees knees for warpriest-ing.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I wasn't so invested in particular themes, I might have taken Warpriest's Armor (instead of Domain Initiate) at level 2 for some heavy armor, and perhaps Cast Down instead of Advanced Domain.

Had I been able to obtain Holy sanctification, my feats instead would have been Divine Weapon and Sanctify Armament for lots of extra (if situational) damage.

Blave wrote:
Shield + Rune result in a shield with decent effect that's almost as durable as a sturdy shield.

If you account for the +30 HP from the spined shield spines, and the bonus hardness from Emblazon Armament, it's actually much more durable than a level equivalent sturdy shield.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Do warpriests get convenient access to the fighter (or champion) feats that make shields not an abysmal drain on action economy? Or are you just expected to take Champion Dedication to get access to those, like you did before? I admit, it is a little less bad for warpriests because of Emblazon Armament and Raise Symbol, which at least makes raising your shield really good for the action cost.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Paul Zagieboylo wrote:
Do warpriests get convenient access to the fighter (or champion) feats that make shields not an abysmal drain on action economy? Or are you just expected to take Champion Dedication to get access to those, like you did before? I admit, it is a little less bad for warpriests because of Emblazon Armament and Raise Symbol, which at least makes raising your shield really good for the action cost.

For action economy savings with shields, I recommend multiclassing. I don't see anything like that under cleric.

Most of the class' action economy savings appear to be tied to spells and/or attacks. Being able to knock someone price with harm for example.


Paul Zagieboylo wrote:
Do warpriests get convenient access to the fighter (or champion) feats that make shields not an abysmal drain on action economy? Or are you just expected to take Champion Dedication to get access to those, like you did before? I admit, it is a little less bad for warpriests because of Emblazon Armament and Raise Symbol, which at least makes raising your shield really good for the action cost.

Best option is most likely Bastion. Though Reactive Shield and Quick Shield Block look VERY juicy on a warprist now.


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Paul Zagieboylo wrote:
Do warpriests get convenient access to the fighter (or champion) feats that make shields not an abysmal drain on action economy? Or are you just expected to take Champion Dedication to get access to those, like you did before? I admit, it is a little less bad for warpriests because of Emblazon Armament and Raise Symbol, which at least makes raising your shield really good for the action cost.

No they get a plethora of other benefits while also having shield block...bc different classes are different. Honestly a sword and board Ragathiel warpriest is looking a lot more fun than any pre-remaster champion I could have made. Looking at all the new warpriest feats I'm hard pressed to leave any room for archetype feats (warpriest is THAT much better!)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Does Champion even have action economy enhancers for shields beyond extra reactions? I don't recall them getting Quick Shield Block or the Shield Paragon stance. I think anyone but fighters and magi who wants cool shield stuff need to take Bastion.


Extra reactions are pretty significant! I usually don’t shield block because my reaction is used to debuff enemies. I can’t wait for that extra reaction.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Captain Morgan wrote:
Does Champion even have action economy enhancers for shields beyond extra reactions? I don't recall them getting Quick Shield Block or the Shield Paragon stance. I think anyone but fighters and magi who wants cool shield stuff need to take Bastion.

They get an always active Paragon's Guard Stance (that doesn't interfere with any other stance) if they've got the Shield Divine Ally and take Shield Paragon as their capstone. As for QSB, they get it as an option at 8th level right out of the Core Rulebook. And they can combine their Champion's Reaction and Shield Block into a single reaction with Shield of Reckoning (while still getting additional reactions for both separately through the respective feats).


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Ironically, it feels like Warpriest went from extremely MAD to quite the opposite. No charisma needed for font and easy access to heavy armor so you don't need Dex. Increase Str, Con and Wis every 5 levels and you are done.

You could feasibly do something like 14 Int by level 5 and then multiclass into Magus for Spellstrike and Shielding Strike.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
HenshinFanatic wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Does Champion even have action economy enhancers for shields beyond extra reactions? I don't recall them getting Quick Shield Block or the Shield Paragon stance. I think anyone but fighters and magi who wants cool shield stuff need to take Bastion.
They get an always active Paragon's Guard Stance (that doesn't interfere with any other stance) if they've got the Shield Divine Ally and take Shield Paragon as their capstone. As for QSB, they get it as an option at 8th level right out of the Core Rulebook. And they can combine their Champion's Reaction and Shield Block into a single reaction with Shield of Reckoning (while still getting additional reactions for both separately through the respective feats).

Right, so a 20th level feat and extra reactions. :p but nothing in there to alleviate the need to spend an action to raise until the end game.


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Having played a Warpriest through L20 (pre-Remaster)...

You don't really need the action economy enhancers. Focusing on one Strike per round or one Spell per round plus Raise Shield is a completely reasonable round. Stride, Strike, Raise worked really well for me. Or, Strike, Raise, Stride for example. On rare occasions Heal, Strike, Raise was solid.

Shield Block is amazing though. Combine it with Replenishment of War for a lot of fun.


Gortle wrote:

Yes it is reasonable. I think that shield using war priests are going to become a staple of the remastered game. It makes a lot of sense tactically and thematically.

Some of the biggest improvements are inherent in the spells Bless and Protection. They make divine casters useful buffers at the cost of cheap low level spell slots.

Instead I foresee a lot of human cloistered clerics with Armor Proficiency at 1, Shield Block at 3 and the Raise Symbol feat at 4 coming our way.

Like, I think Warpriest will become fairly popular, but I still think Cloistered will remain the most played of the two.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Does Champion even have action economy enhancers for shields beyond extra reactions? I don't recall them getting Quick Shield Block or the Shield Paragon stance. I think anyone but fighters and magi who wants cool shield stuff need to take Bastion.

I'm currently playing a champion who went all-in on shields. They do indeed get Quick Shield Block, but evil champions have to work to get Shield Warden (via Bastion, since you have to have Tenets of Good to get it in-class) and OWWWW paying the action tax to raise the shield hurts.

Bastion is totally my best friend.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
roquepo wrote:

...I foresee a lot of human cloistered clerics with Armor Proficiency at 1, Shield Block at 3 and the Raise Symbol feat at 4 coming our way.

Like, I think Warpriest will become fairly popular, but I still think Cloistered will remain the most played of the two.

Effective, but boring.


Stat sticks will stat stick, it is what it is.

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