[Spoilers!] Player Core 1: Where are the Archetypes?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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Is it just me or is there a lack of any single Archetype outside of the eight multiclass archetype?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Player Core 2 will be where the remastered archetypes other than multiclasses will be coming in.


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It feels strange to move many things to Player Core 2.


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Is there some incompatibility between the pre-remaster archetypes and the remastered classes in Player Core 1?

Since it seems like it should be possible to play a pre-remaster Monk and Champion in the same party with a remastered Rogue and Witch, so there shouldn't be a problem using the old version of an archetype.


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Not at all. There is no compatibility issues it just was an interesting design choice.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Player core 1 had to accommodate a ton of basic rules that Core 2 won’t. It was a pretty obvious choice to move archetypes to the second book of part of the plan was splitting the content as evenly as possible.


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The original corebook didn't have non-multiclass Archetypes, right? I think of this similarly - it's only got the most essential of mechanics.


I’m just here waiting for the spoilers….


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keftiu wrote:
The original corebook didn't have non-multiclass Archetypes, right? I think of this similarly - it's only got the most essential of mechanics.

Correct. The first non-multiclass archetypes we saw were in World Guide and Character Guide.

I guess technically the first new AP volume might have beaten them to the punch. I think the first volume had an archetype in it; I know some of the later ones did.


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I didn't know original didn't have Archetypes.


Yeah, we didn't get the first batch of really good non-multiclass archetypes until APG. We were out here staring through the store windows at World Guide wondering if Magic Warrior would be good :V

As far as archetypes go, nothing has changed for the new core books, except that while waiting to see what PC2 does we still have several years of archetypes and other content to use. And if that pressures the more stringent or reluctant GMs who use remaster stuff to reconsider disallowing premaster content, then...good, to be honest, there's really not much that gets weird and merits such a thing.


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The big problem from what I can tell was that nobody expected the remaster - not even paizo themselves! They did those books in addition to all the stuff they were working on anyway and we know with which frequency they bring our new content. Stuffing those four extra books in there is most likely a huge wrench into their already near-capacity production line. Seeing how they usually send the books of the the printer months before release, they had maaaaybe 6-7 months to work on Player Core and GM Core. That's really not a lot of time for books of their size.

And even if large parts of the book were "done already", they still had to go through a lot of stuff and look at them for any wanted/needed changes. That a rule didn't change doesn't mean it was never considered or discussed to be changed.


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Player core 2 is the APG, functionally. Which is pretty solid given the original PF 2 APG came out a year after the core rules, when they could actually plan their releases.

And yeah, you can't just pump out a book in under 10 months with no warning. You have to do all the graphic design, formatting, playtest new stuff, consult with your lawyers on several hundred pages of text to make sure WotC has absolutely NO pretext to sue you, edit make sure everything was filed off...

I can only imagine the late nights and work environment that must have existed at Paizo for the past year. I'm glad they're finally done with it so we can move the heck on, and the fact that they incorporated a ton of the errata people have been clamoring for for the past 4 years is really great.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Love when people are critical of the speed at which the fastest and most high quality publisher (except maybe battle zoo) in the rpg space puts out books.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Blave wrote:
And even if large parts of the book were "done already", they still had to go through a lot of stuff and look at them for any wanted/needed changes. That a rule didn't change doesn't mean it was never considered or discussed to be changed.

Exactly. Even sections that more or less stayed the same didn’t necessarily stay in the same book, and also had to be reviewed line by line to make sure it didn’t need to be revised.

Plus an IP lawyer was probably involved. That couldn’t have been very speedy.

Edit: Also, aren’t there Lost Omens books coming out between now and July?

That all averages to about a book a month, on top of their SF and PF ap lines. That seems to be about the rate that their printer works.

2nd Edit: yes, 1 LO book. I forgot, the 4 remaster books seem to have displaced 3 LO books and 1 rulebook.


AnimatedPaper wrote:

Edit: Also, aren’t there Lost Omens books coming out between now and July?

That all averages to about a book a month, on top of their SF and PF ap lines. That seems to be about the rate that their printer works.

2nd Edit: yes, 1 LO book. I forgot, the 4 remaster books seem to have displaced 3 LO books and 1 rulebook.

Yeah, that Tien Xia book...


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They also had to rewrite significant sections of Rage of Elements to make it ORC compatable, review all their up coming adventures to try and reduce the OGL overlap, and redesign over half their monsters.

Patience, waiting a little longer so that they can do it right the first time is always preferable to constantly patching after the fact.

Also PC2 has the two classes that need the biggest overhaul. Alchemist needs to be redesigned from top to bottom to both work and be fun to play, and the Champion has to be scraped since its whole thing is "Alignment, the Class." Maybe it was a good idea to have the baseline rules decided and in print before you start a total rewrite of two core classes?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

When you are editing hundreds of pages where any page could possibly contain references or phrasing in need of updating it takes time and a lot of sets of eyes that know what they are looking for.

Acquisitives

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kelseus wrote:

They also had to rewrite significant sections of Rage of Elements to make it ORC compatable, review all their up coming adventures to try and reduce the OGL overlap, and redesign over half their monsters.

Patience, waiting a little longer so that they can do it right the first time is always preferable to constantly patching after the fact.

Also PC2 has the two classes that need the biggest overhaul. Alchemist needs to be redesigned from top to bottom to both work and be fun to play, and the Champion has to be scraped since its whole thing is "Alignment, the Class." Maybe it was a good idea to have the baseline rules decided and in print before you start a total rewrite of two core classes?

gonna miss the Champion, I for one am glad its waiting since everyone is adopting remaster and my champion is level 14 currently in AoA. Should be finished by the time the new one drops.


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LandSwordBear wrote:
I’m just here waiting for the spoilers….

Aroden dies.

Paizo Employee Community and Social Media Specialist

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Removed baiting and harassing posts and their quotes. Please keep things civil or I'll lock the thread.

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