Are there going to be new uses for Hero points in the Remaster


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

Wayfinders

I've been reading through Starfinder Enhanced and love the new uses for Resolve points. I know that resolve points will most likely be replaced with Hero points in SF2e. Here are the basics of how the new resolve points work.

"Specialized uses include new ways to use your Resolve Points.
These are split into four categories: defensive, offensive,
transport, and utility. As part of your daily preparations,
you can select one new way to use your Resolve Points per
category. Each specialized use that a character with Resolve
Points selects can be used once per day."

Was wondering if the Pathfinder remaster was adding more options on how hero points can be used, that might be similar?

Liberty's Edge

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I would love for Hero Points to get new uses.

Wayfinders

Too much to list, but there 24 new uses in Starfinder Enhanced. Here's just one example.

Instant Reload: You can spend 1 Resolve Point to reload
a weapon you’re holding without using an action. You must
have the appropriate ammunition to reload your weapon in
this way.

That feels more like a heroic action if used at the right time than just rerolling because you had bad luck rolling dice. Although I still do like having the option to reroll.


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The main problem is the difference in getting hero points versus resolve points. Resolve points are a pool of increasing amount and double as your out of combat healing resource, and so you get a lot of them and they come back everyday. Hero points are you get 1 every session and you might get more if your GM gives them to you and even then you only can have 3 max. You can't really make a subsystem around different hero points usages because the amount is a lot smaller.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
MEATSHED wrote:
The main problem is the difference in getting hero points versus resolve points. Resolve points are a pool of increasing amount and double as your out of combat healing resource, and so you get a lot of them and they come back everyday. Hero points are you get 1 every session and you might get more if your GM gives them to you and even then you only can have 3 max. You can't really make a subsystem around different hero points usages because the amount is a lot smaller.

The more my players use Hero Points, the more I award them. We have had long sessions that resulted in a flurry of HP activity because they tend to go big and when they use them they get them replaced. I've let them use HP's to do many of the same things resolve points do. It's been my experience that Hero Points arent used like Resolve Points mostly because they're sat on for 'get out of death' scenarios because re rolling a 3 to get a 4 is uninspiring during big supposedly heroic fortune roll moments.


Hero Points are an interesting design space. When PF2 first launched, I played around with some homebrew ideas to explore the space, but to be honest, nothing felt quite right. The thing is, Hero Points likely have some of the highest variance from table to table and attaching them more strongly to mechanical effects (ones that someone could come to rely on, like special abilities, action economy tricks, or additional damage) ends up feeling clunky from both GM and player-side perspective. At least, this is how I felt.

The thing is, a reroll is powerful, but isn't something that players should rely upon. It's a nice thing to have, but if it didn't exist, a character would operate functionally the same. It isn't something that is "I have the ability to do X, so I will adjust a strategy around this," since it's something that could be shutdown by a lack of Hero Points.

I think if you want to go in this direction, you would have to go a little farther into personal homebrew territory as I imagine that the devs are happy where Hero Points are. As a jumping off point, being able to somewhat reliably "generate" Hero Points without GM intercession - like gaining Hero Points through critical specialization abilities, accepting penalties in encounters, or created through treasures. But this would be a much larger system if you want to expand Hero Points into other directions.

Liberty's Edge

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There is actually a Paizo product with new uses for hero points : the Hero Point Deck.


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I think a lot of the design space of Resolve Points went into Focus Points and the hinted-at focus abilities in the Remaster (rather than just focus spells).

For example, the Instant Reload ability given as an example would probably end up as a focus ability.


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Dhaise wrote:
mostly because they're sat on for 'get out of death' scenarios because re rolling a 3 to get a 4 is uninspiring during big supposedly heroic fortune roll moments.

I trained my party out of that think early into pf2e. I haven't seen a heropoint saved for avoiding death in... probably the last 27 levels of play.

Even if spending one can end up being a waste with a reroll, the times which it isn't are memorable enough.

That said, I do make sure to give out one an hour regardless of where we are at and whether I can think of a heroic reason to give one out or not (i roll a d4 if I cannot)

Wayfinders

breithauptclan wrote:

I think a lot of the design space of Resolve Points went into Focus Points and the hinted-at focus abilities in the Remaster (rather than just focus spells).

For example, the Instant Reload ability given as an example would probably end up as a focus ability.

That's what I was wondering. Now that I think about it more some of the new uses of resolve points in Starinfder Enhanced help deal with not having a 3-action economy like Instant Reload, and other uses of resolve points could be worked into focus points and abilities.

Wayfinders

The Raven Black wrote:
There is actually a Paizo product with new uses for hero points : the Hero Point Deck.

Thanks that looks fun.

Wayfinders

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The Gleeful Grognard wrote:
Dhaise wrote:
mostly because they're sat on for 'get out of death' scenarios because re rolling a 3 to get a 4 is uninspiring during big supposedly heroic fortune roll moments.

I trained my party out of that think early into pf2e. I haven't seen a heropoint saved for avoiding death in... probably the last 27 levels of play.

Even if spending one can end up being a waste with a reroll, the times which it isn't are memorable enough.

That said, I do make sure to give out one an hour regardless of where we are at and whether I can think of a heroic reason to give one out or not (i roll a d4 if I cannot)

Our local PFS group almost always spends our hero points, without saving them. The biggest reason I like hero points is there's nothing worse than having a new player at the table having a bad time due to unlucky dice rolls.

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