Has anyone come up with a magic version of Inventor?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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I was wondering why, in a world as magically infused as Golarion, there doesn't seem to be anyone dedicated to improving or innovating magic items.

There are Alchemists to work on magic potions and such but no one really dedicated to developing new weapon and armour runes, magical tools or vehicles and other such wondrous things.

Is there a third party version somewhere? If so, could someone point me in their direction please? I want to add a magical Doc Brown to my NPCs and having an actual class for it would be great if my players want to play one.


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NPCs don't use PC rules, so you're not in need of any class there.

I've had a friend of mine replicate a 5e Artificer wonderfully as an Inventor with a Wizard Multiclass Dedication.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

As far as a playable option, I feel like the best way to do it in house is to reflavor the thaumaturge, instead of found implements and esoterica it's invented gadgetry. The class can even craft itself temporary scrolls and talismans which definitely can function as magical gadgets.

But the options for interfacing directly with actual magical crafting are very rare, seemingly by design since Paizo has done so much to limit those options.


As far as developing magical vehicles, the Vehicle Mechanic archetype does a decent job of it.


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I would personally like a class not unlike MTG artificers. Making magical technologies. This can somewhat be emulated by the the inventor, but not really. I want to play an Urza-like character shaping metal with magic and constructing war machines, weapons, gadgets and the like. I want a class that feels like my Breya commander deck where I create synergies between magical machines to cause devastation. Some metal kineticist abilities mimick this, and so does the metal wood composite one that makes giant artillery


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AestheticDialectic wrote:
I would personally like a class not unlike MTG artificers. Making magical technologies. This can somewhat be emulated by the the inventor, but not really. I want to play an Urza-like character shaping metal with magic and constructing war machines, weapons, gadgets and the like. I want a class that feels like my Breya commander deck where I create synergies between magical machines to cause devastation. Some metal kineticist abilities mimick this, and so does the metal wood composite one that makes giant artillery

Breya is such a fun commander.


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Creating new items is not something Paizo trusts players with, probably wisely. Even the inventor only lets you use a pre-defined set of inventions and sort of arbitrarily limits their usage to you to prevent you from breaking the world's established tech or intended balance.

But you don't need a class for an NPC, and as a GM you can make up whatever items you want.


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Derry Luttrell and Tony Saunders on Pathfinder Infinite have some highly-rated class expansion supplements. Their next one is Inventors+, which is supposed to include a Magitech class archetype. Not sure how closely it will match what you're looking for, but worth a look once it comes out!


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I'd absolutely love this type of character, Corin Cadence from Arcane Ascension is one of my favorite protagonists. Having that type of capability would be awesome.


Oh dang, I never thought I'd see an Arcane Ascension reference out in the wild!


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I'd say you could totally just reflavor Inventor to be magical artificier. No mechanic changes needed - unstable magic totally fits there.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are also alchemical devices and gadgets that can help meet the "magical inventor" (or at least inventor) flavor.


andrey_gavrilov wrote:
I'd say you could totally just reflavor Inventor to be magical artificier. No mechanic changes needed - unstable magic totally fits there.

I think for what I want specifically it would easier to reflavor the metal kineticist, but it wouldn't fully hit the mark. Thinking about it I've come to the conclusion that, at least for what I described I wanted, not what the OP said, I would need a class that skewed towards caster like kineticist rather than martial like the inventor


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AestheticDialectic wrote:
andrey_gavrilov wrote:
I'd say you could totally just reflavor Inventor to be magical artificier. No mechanic changes needed - unstable magic totally fits there.
I think for what I want specifically it would easier to reflavor the metal kineticist, but it wouldn't fully hit the mark. Thinking about it I've come to the conclusion that, at least for what I described I wanted, not what the OP said, I would need a class that skewed towards caster like kineticist rather than martial like the inventor

It depends on how you see the artificier. I believe the closest legendary characters are sacred smiths like Ilmarinen and it's easier to see them swinging hammers than casting spells. But surely, D&D Artificier is ok too.


andrey_gavrilov wrote:
AestheticDialectic wrote:
andrey_gavrilov wrote:
I'd say you could totally just reflavor Inventor to be magical artificier. No mechanic changes needed - unstable magic totally fits there.
I think for what I want specifically it would easier to reflavor the metal kineticist, but it wouldn't fully hit the mark. Thinking about it I've come to the conclusion that, at least for what I described I wanted, not what the OP said, I would need a class that skewed towards caster like kineticist rather than martial like the inventor
It depends on how you see the artificier. I believe the closest legendary characters are sacred smiths like Ilmarinen and it's easier to see them swinging hammers than casting spells. But surely, D&D Artificier is ok too.

I'm thinking MTG artificers


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Look at the 5e Artificer compared to the PF2 Inventor and it's no contest. The 5e version gets an invention, plus a brace of magic items, and a limited selection of spells that max at 4th level. By comparison, the Inventor is just a martial class with extra flavor and unreliable boosts at low levels. Now, I know these are different games but it feels bad that the Inventor is so limited in what they can interact with.

If we had a magic version of Inventor that could pick from a list of magic items each day and change them out at a short rest with a hard crafting check that would scratch a pretty big itch for a lot of players.


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3-Body Problem wrote:

Look at the 5e Artificer compared to the PF2 Inventor and it's no contest. The 5e version gets an invention, plus a brace of magic items, and a limited selection of spells that max at 4th level. By comparison, the Inventor is just a martial class with extra flavor and unreliable boosts at low levels. Now, I know these are different games but it feels bad that the Inventor is so limited in what they can interact with.

If we had a magic version of Inventor that could pick from a list of magic items each day and change them out at a short rest with a hard crafting check that would scratch a pretty big itch for a lot of players.

I don't think this is quite a valid comparison. The 5e artificer and the inventor are attempting to sell different class fantasies. I also think the 5e artificer fails in the flavor department because it just has spells, which you can reflavor, but would have been better off with bespoke abilities

Though neither class does what I want personally


AestheticDialectic wrote:
I also think the 5e artificer fails in the flavor department because it just has spells, which you can reflavor, but would have been better off with bespoke abilities

That's just how 5e does things. There aren't many special abilities that are close to spells but not actually spells and what few there are wouldn't replace everything the Artificer can do with spells.

Liberty's Edge

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3-Body Problem wrote:

Look at the 5e Artificer compared to the PF2 Inventor and it's no contest. The 5e version gets an invention, plus a brace of magic items, and a limited selection of spells that max at 4th level. By comparison, the Inventor is just a martial class with extra flavor and unreliable boosts at low levels. Now, I know these are different games but it feels bad that the Inventor is so limited in what they can interact with.

If we had a magic version of Inventor that could pick from a list of magic items each day and change them out at a short rest with a hard crafting check that would scratch a pretty big itch for a lot of players.

There are a few threads about new classes around here and TBH there are other class concepts that people ask for much more than this.

What is interesting is that many many of these concepts have since been covered by the new classes or by archetypes.

Concepts often mentioned but still missing are a new Shifter, a warlord/martial leader and a class dealing in Fortune/Misfortune effects (my favorite, so I am biaised).

But really, when I see the diversity of what we already got, I feel we have already been greatly spoiled.

So, big thanks to Paizo for everything they have already given us and for what they will give us in the future.


The Raven Black wrote:
3-Body Problem wrote:

Look at the 5e Artificer compared to the PF2 Inventor and it's no contest. The 5e version gets an invention, plus a brace of magic items, and a limited selection of spells that max at 4th level. By comparison, the Inventor is just a martial class with extra flavor and unreliable boosts at low levels. Now, I know these are different games but it feels bad that the Inventor is so limited in what they can interact with.

If we had a magic version of Inventor that could pick from a list of magic items each day and change them out at a short rest with a hard crafting check that would scratch a pretty big itch for a lot of players.

There are a few threads about new classes around here and TBH there are other class concepts that people ask for much more than this.

What is interesting is that many many of these concepts have since been covered by the new classes or by archetypes.

Concepts often mentioned but still missing are a new Shifter, a warlord/martial leader and a class dealing in Fortune/Misfortune effects (my favorite, so I am biaised).

But really, when I see the diversity of what we already got, I feel we have already been greatly spoiled.

So, big thanks to Paizo for everything they have already given us and for what they will give us in the future.

I really feel like fortune/misfortune effects should be the domain of the Witch given they were an at-will source of it in PF1

Liberty's Edge

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AestheticDialectic wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
3-Body Problem wrote:

Look at the 5e Artificer compared to the PF2 Inventor and it's no contest. The 5e version gets an invention, plus a brace of magic items, and a limited selection of spells that max at 4th level. By comparison, the Inventor is just a martial class with extra flavor and unreliable boosts at low levels. Now, I know these are different games but it feels bad that the Inventor is so limited in what they can interact with.

If we had a magic version of Inventor that could pick from a list of magic items each day and change them out at a short rest with a hard crafting check that would scratch a pretty big itch for a lot of players.

There are a few threads about new classes around here and TBH there are other class concepts that people ask for much more than this.

What is interesting is that many many of these concepts have since been covered by the new classes or by archetypes.

Concepts often mentioned but still missing are a new Shifter, a warlord/martial leader and a class dealing in Fortune/Misfortune effects (my favorite, so I am biaised).

But really, when I see the diversity of what we already got, I feel we have already been greatly spoiled.

So, big thanks to Paizo for everything they have already given us and for what they will give us in the future.

I really feel like fortune/misfortune effects should be the domain of the Witch given they were an at-will source of it in PF1

TBT I feel an Archetype might be enough, and I do not want it shackled to an existing class and all its features and specific theme.

I just want a way legal in PFS to, at least, let players with a Hero Point give it to another player who really needs it for their PC but have none left.


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3-Body Problem wrote:
If we had a magic version of Inventor that could pick from a list of magic items each day and change them out at a short rest with a hard crafting check that would scratch a pretty big itch for a lot of players.

Little unclear what you mean. Like, you can get a permanent magic item (presumably up to a certain level) that lasts for that day, able to be switched out every time you refocus (short rests aren't a thing in PF2)?

The nanocyte class in Starfinder has a mechanic along those lines. I think it could be made to work in Pathfinder. At the moment, we only have classes that create consumables and charges (Thaumaturges and Alchemists being the primary examples); I personally think "permanent" items aren't out of the question, though I can see why others would disagree.

Inventors don't do this, not really, so I would not look to them for an example. Their thing is modifying an item's traits. Which is a step along the way, but not quite there yet.


AnimatedPaper wrote:
Little unclear what you mean. Like, you can get a permanent magic item (presumably up to a certain level) that lasts for that day, able to be switched out every time you refocus (short rests aren't a thing in PF2)?

Yeah, pretty much this.

I know the PF2 term is refocus but I'm in the middle of running D&D 5e so I got my wires crossed.

Quote:

The nanocyte class in Starfinder has a mechanic along those lines. I think it could be made to work in Pathfinder. At the moment, we only have classes that create consumables and charges (Thaumaturges and Alchemists being the primary examples); I personally think "permanent" items aren't out of the question, though I can see why others would disagree.

Inventors don't do this, not really, so I would not look to them for an example. Their thing is modifying an item's traits. Which is a step along the way, but not quite there yet.

This whole thread is about a Magical Inventor class, so I compared the 5e version and then spun-off half of it into the bones of something that could work in PF2.


I suppose thaumaturge and alchemists are the closest to "using magic inherent in items/materials" thus far.

I would like something that is more craft focused than the thaumaturge though.
I Could just reflavour the inventor as someone mentioned, but the mechanics don't really fit. for eg, would their 'magic inventions' work in an null magic field?

And they leave out the huge variaty of magic items available.

alsyr wrote:
Derry Luttrell and Tony Saunders on Pathfinder Infinite have some highly-rated class expansion supplements. Their next one is Inventors+, which is supposed to include a Magitech class archetype. Not sure how closely it will match what you're looking for, but worth a look once it comes out!

Neat i'll keep an eye out for it thanks


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I was just reading the War of Immortals Playtest Wrap-up Blog and had a thought: It's more of a homebrew of a playtest class (so not "official"), but the examplar could be a decent chassis for a "magical inventor" by allowing the character to choose the three ikons to "empower" at daily preparation (instead of being fixed at at character creation) and possibly giving something similar to the fighter's Combat Flexibility to choose one or two "temporary" class feats as well; reflavor the descriptions slightly to match the "inventor" theme (spring-heeled boots instead of thousand-league sandals, etc.). The multiclassed inventor archetype could be used if the character wanted to "specialize" with a specific invention.


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If talismans were tuned a bit better, the Talisman Dabbler archetype would help fulfil the fantasy of "making daily magical trinkets" that an artificer should have.

Liberty's Edge

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shroudb wrote:

If talismans were tuned a bit better, the Talisman Dabbler archetype would help fulfil the fantasy of "making daily magical trinkets" that an artificer should have.

IIRC Talismans will be Remastered.


The Raven Black wrote:
shroudb wrote:

If talismans were tuned a bit better, the Talisman Dabbler archetype would help fulfil the fantasy of "making daily magical trinkets" that an artificer should have.

IIRC Talismans will be Remastered.

Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic about that.


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Sound like a Harnmaster Shek-Pvar (wizard) of the Jmorvi (metal, artifice) convocation would be right up this alley.


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Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
Is there a third party version somewhere? If so, could someone point me in their direction please? I want to add a magical Doc Brown to my NPCs and having an actual class for it would be great if my players want to play one.

So, quickest way to do this without redoing the class from scratch:

1. All unstable feats and powers lose the unstable trait and instead become focus spells/cantrips. Think of them as amps if you like.
2. Give spell casting proficiency in place of class dc improvements.
3. Consider eliminating overdrive and giving the class arcane bound casting. Or primal if you’re like me, but I’m weird.

That’s just the player version of course. NPCs just make an inventor and their inventor stuff is magical instead of tied to crafting, no sweat.

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