Succubus in a grapple - The build?

[Cornebre]

So. How can one build a SiaG PC? (To BE the succubus that grapple ;p)
I thought about starting with a kitsune, because of the polymoph power (becoming anyone (human) thanks to a single feat) with a first level of Vigilante for the +20 to disguise check (talent: Seamless Chapechanger) and a focus on getting Magical tails (to access domination early with the Nine-tailed Scion trait)

What's next?
Is my start even right?

No 3rd party. PFS legal optional.

[Meirril]

This really isn't possible. You need some sort of devastating power you can unleash but you need to grapple something, or grappling makes it easier.

A Kitsun's Dominate Person ability doesn't fit at all. You don't need to touch the target, the grapple doesn't lower the target's DC to resist, it actually puts the Kitsun into greater danger than just casting it when they first see the target. Also getting to dominate person would eat up 8 non-combat feats from the build.

You'd be better off with some sort of bad touch build.

[zza ni]

the old pre-nurf souldinker had a negative energy touch attack. that would have worked.

[avr]

Blood conduit bloodrager might work, they can deliver touch spells via a grapple check. Touch of idiocy for example.

[Scott Wilhelm]

What effects are you really wanting? I have made some devastating Grapple Builds. There ae 2 basic problems with Grappling: Freedom of Movement completely undoes it, and it really only works on 1 opponent at a time. In a melee with multiple opponents, you're screwed.

There are several approaches to these problems

Tetori Monks negate Freedom of Movement at Level 9.

White Haired Witches can Grapple Multiple Opponnets.

You can use Grappling in another way: with a damage-while-grapping feature like Constrict or Armor Spikes, you can catch-and-release Grapple with something like Grab or Hamatula Strike.

You can be a Grappler and something else. I like the idea of being a Ninja Sniper/Grappler, or maybe shoot exploding arrows and Grapple.

I'm not sure how to achieve some kind of energy drain effect along with that, but I know I can make you awesome at disguise along the way.

[Scott Wilhelm]

There's Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Gloves. There is the Ennervation Spell. There are Bleed effects. Blood Blaze, Imbue with Addiction,

[Cornebre]

The objective is to emulate as close as possible the capacities of a succubus, bonus point if grabbing ready and/or good aligned.

The things to emulate:
Claws attacks
Polymoph
"Spell list"
(Dark vision?)

Bloodrager Kitsune cover a great deal of the whole. But is lacking in the "dominate person" deal until very late.

[Meirril]

Cornebre wrote:

The objective is to emulate as close as possible the capacities of a succubus, bonus point if grabbing ready and/or good aligned.

The things to emulate:
Claws attacks
Polymoph
"Spell list"
(Dark vision?)

Bloodrager Kitsune cover a great deal of the whole. But is lacking in the "dominate person" deal until very late.

Well, assuming your GM is going to run a game where he doesn't mind you becoming a chaotic evil outsider, and the campaign spans many in-game years...you could just become a Succubus.

Perform these four occult rituals and you could transform into an actual Succubus. The skill checks are going to be a limiting factor. Intimidate + 2 knowledge skills DC 31 for a total of 9 successes is brutal. Still if you make a character with all of this in mind, it isn't impossible.

[Artofregicide]

Meirril wrote:

Cornebre wrote:

The objective is to emulate as close as possible the capacities of a succubus, bonus point if grabbing ready and/or good aligned.

The things to emulate:
Claws attacks
Polymoph
"Spell list"
(Dark vision?)

Bloodrager Kitsune cover a great deal of the whole. But is lacking in the "dominate person" deal until very late.

Well, assuming your GM is going to run a game where he doesn't mind you becoming a chaotic evil outsider, and the campaign spans many in-game years...you could just become a Succubus.

Perform these four occult rituals and you could transform into an actual Succubus. The skill checks are going to be a limiting factor. Intimidate + 2 knowledge skills DC 31 for a total of 9 successes is brutal. Still if you make a character with all of this in mind, it isn't impossible.

Step 1) Become a Succubus

Step 2) Grapple
Step 3) ???
Step 4) Profit

[Scott Wilhelm]

Cornebre wrote:

bonus point if grabbing ready

I know how to get you Grab.

Cornebre wrote:

bonus point if... good aligned.

Interesting. That actually makes it easier.

Cornebre wrote:

The things to emulate:

Claws attacks
Polymoph
"Spell list"
(Dark vision?)

There are lots of ways of getting Claw attacks, especially since you want the Succubus's Polymorph Ability, which is just Alter Self, and you want a Spell List, so we are just golden here. There are lots of shapes you can Polymorph into that give you Claw Attacks.

I have a build that pretty much covers this and is an awesome grappler.

[Cornebre]

*. *
What is it, what is it?

[Scott Wilhelm]

Cornebre wrote:

*. *

What is it, what is it?

With the combination of Greater Grapple and a Cavalier Ability called Expert Captor learned by the Order of the Penitent, You can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action, then Tie Up your opponent as a Move Action. Expert Captor lets you Ties Up a Grappled, not Pinned, opponent, and you don't take that -10 you normally take.

As for the problems with Grappling that some opponents just can't be Grappled, and anyway, Grappling generally only works on single opponents, my preference is to have another trick. I've been putting together a build for a Ninja Sniper that has this Grappling package.

Half Elf: Ancestral Arms: Orc Hornbow, Arcane Training: Arcanist
1Fighter1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Wolf Cub, Indomidable Will, BAB+1

I consider Precise Shot to be the essential Feat for a Range Character.

2F1Ninja1: Sneak Attack 1d6, Poison
3F1N2: Ninja Vanishing Trick, Extra Trick, Rogue Talent, False Attacker, Ki Pool, BAB+2

Stealth doesn't work when your opponent is actively watching you. Ninja Vanishing Trick lets you turn Invisible, then you can almost definitely use Stealth to find a nice spider hole to shoot from, and firing while hidden or invisible, your opponents don't get their Dex Mods to AC, and you get your Sneak Attack Damage.

Normally, you have to make a Stealth Check at -20 to stay hidden after attacking from Stealth, but False Attacker lets you make a Bluff Check with no penalties as a Swift Action. If successful, you automatically maintain your cover with no Stealth Check required because your targets think the shots came from over there.

This character would start out using an Orc Hornbow, but I was thinking he would acquire something like a Wand of Scorching Ray or a Robe of Needles and make Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flatfooted AC that lock in Sneak Attack Damage. Just try saying that out loud without your face splitting open with an evil grin.

4F1N2Brawler1: SnakeBite Striker, Unarmed 1d6, Sneak Attack +1d6, Martial Cunning, BAB+3
5F1N3B1: Sneak Attack +1d6, No Trace+1, Improved Grapple, BAB+4

Something to bear in mind is that Ninjas get 8 Skill Points/level: plenty for Disguise, Dimplomacy, or Bluff. With Arcane Training, this character can use almost any Magic Wand, including Wands of Disguise Self, taking a very cheap +10 on Disguise Checks.

6F1N3B1Cavalier1: Tactician, Coordinated Maneuvers, Order of the Penitent, BAB+5
7F1N3B1C2: Expert Captor, Greater Grapple, BAB+6
8F1N3B1C2Alchemist1: Vivisectionist, Mutagen, Extracts, Throw Anything, Brew Potion, Sneak Attack +1d6

Alchemist Extracts include Alter Self and other Polymorph spells. They don't get Dominate Person, but they do get Marionette Possession and Magic Jar. They don't get energy drain, but they get Burning Blood and Caustic Blood. You said you'd like Claws; well the Feral Mutagen Discovery gives you Claws and a Bite.

9F1N3B1C2A2: King Crab Tumor Familiar, Infusion, BAB+7

King Crab Familiars grant their masters +2 on Grapple Checks. Any Extract can be made into an Infusion. With Infusion, Alchemists are about the only Class that can "cast" True Strike on someone else. This character can use Share Spells to cast Touch Injection on his familiar and give him an Infusion of True Strike. He can then cast True Strike on himself and Stealthily sneak up on his target. The next Round, he can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action with a +20 due to True Strike. The Familiar hits him with a Touch Injection Infusion of True Strike as a Readied Action. Then the character Ties Up the target again with a +20 as a Move Action! This character's Grapple Mod can get shockingly high.

10F1N3B1C2A3: Sneak Attack +1d6, BAB+8
11F1N3B1C2A4: Tentacle, Feat, BAB+9

The Tentacle has Grab, and Grab grants a +4 on all Grapple Checks.

[Cornebre]

Awesome.

Just awesome.

The only complaint I "could" have is that the polymoph effect is quite "limited". But that's really just a detail.

Autorisation to "steal" that build for (maybe) latter use? ^^

[Scott Wilhelm]

Cornebre wrote:

Awesome.

Just awesome.

The only complaint I "could" have is that the polymoph effect is quite "limited". But that's really just a detail.

Autorisation to "steal" that build for (maybe) latter use? ^^

Feel free to use the build. Tell me what you think.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Cornebre wrote:

Awesome.

Just awesome.

The only complaint I "could" have is that the polymoph effect is quite "limited". But that's really just a detail.

Autorisation to "steal" that build for (maybe) latter use? ^^

Feel free to use the build. Tell me what you think.

I find myself with the question, "What do you want to Polymorph for?"

A Succubus's Polymorph is in fact limited to Alter Self, and she uses it to disguise herself as various beautiful, tempting Humanoids. That effect requires nothing more than the Disguise Skill augmented perhaps with the Disguise Self Spell (+10 on the Check). Alchemists get that, and other Polymorph spells. So do Sorcerers and Bards. And to all Half Elves, the ability to use such wands is available as an Althernate Racial Trait.

If you want to Polymporph for the Natural Attacks, like I said, the Feral Mutagen Discovery gives you Claws and a Bite. Mutagens last for 10 minutes/level, well-more than you need for almost any melee.

If what you want is a Naturual Attack Build, I might have sent you in a wholly other direction. Tengu get 2 Claws and a Bite Full Time. I'd make you a Warpriest or Unchained Barbarian. Unchained Barbarians get a +1 Damage every 4 levels in addition to Rage. You could dip: the Strength bonuses from Rage and Mutagen stack. There is a Barbarian Rage Power that also gives you a Gore Attack and another that gives you 2 Claws (but you can't get both Rage Powers). There is a Rage Power that Gives you a Bite Attack. Dip a level in Witch with the White Hair Archetype, and you have a 'Hair Natural Attack. Actually, White Haiired Witch is a solid option for the basis of a Grappling Succubus-like character. For a Natural Attack Tengu Warpriest build--I call them Angry Birds--you take Weapon Focus for your Natual Attacks and inflict Sacred Weapon Damage instead of the regular Natural Attack Damage. You don't have to take Weapon Focus to so Sacred Weapon Damage if you are using the Favored Weapon of your Deity, and some Golorian deities favor Bite. One favors Bite and Destruction--my favorite Warpriest Blessing: Dahak, the destroyer-dragon god.