
BrotherHanson |
I'm new to playing a monk, and already acutely aware that I don't have much ranged ability. (I carry a sling at level 1, and just took some throwing knives off a dead guy, but that's it.)
I don't want to specialize in ranged attacks. I expect to regularly be in melee in Wolf Stance flanking with the rogue. But I would like a decent ranged *option*.
What experience do people have playing with both Monastic Archer Stance and a dexterity-focused melee stance? That seems "decent" since for one class feat you've got 30-50' flurry/stunning/magic/metal ranged attacks when needed.
I don't mind if this isn't the most powerful combination. (For this character Monastic Archer would most likely displace Stand Still.) But I wouldn't want to take a choice that I never use. Some possible pitfalls I can see with Monastic Archer are that switching stances could just be so slow it's never worth doing, and that at higher levels what is meant to be a sidelight has to compete for runes to remain a "decent" option.
What about other ranged options for monks? Wild Winds Stance looks neat at high levels. Shuriken are neat too but seem to be more for actual weapons monks. This character probably wouldn't multiclass for spellcasting but in general I suppose that gives lots of potential options.
I have no experience playing, playing with, or GM-ing a monk so thanks in advance for any advice!

Castilliano |

Yes, there's a gap there to fill, but Stand Still syncs well with Wolf Stance (assuming you're tripping), so replacing that for a backup ability is kinda costly. Heck, taking a 1st level feat with a 4th level slot is already a warning sign.
Trouble with advising you is that a lot of the advice depends on a larger context, i.e. in a party w/ casters & archers, the gap's covered; and Wild Winds Stance requires you already have a Ki feat which IMO is costly unless already interested in those (and Ki Blast). Is the campaign primarily outside fighting Fey who bombard from the air? In a city where it's more a matter of closing the gap (which you can do fine)? Or deep underground with tight spaces? Ancestry also plays a role, since some can get a ranged Cantrip or you might gain access to bows for instance.
Except are you then going to upgrade your bow to matter? I think in many ways that a Monk is themself a ranged weapon. They can cover good distance, Flurry, then retreat.* And they have feats to run up walls or across water, leap high, even kinda fly (though a Ki feat too, and at 10th it may be superfluous if you have other access to flight or the campaign's wrapping up.)
For now I'd put the worry on the backburner without committing either way. Note that my advice to a Str-based shield-user in heavy armor would be to address this ASAP, but a Monk's mobility changes the paradigm.
*Sometimes is worthwhile to do this in the first round rather than get into your Stance, Stride, & Flurry, ending your turn w/ all those enemies around you when you could waste their actions having them come to you (though this too depends on party tactics/terrain).

BrotherHanson |
Heh. I like that very good point: "in many ways ... a Monk is themself a ranged weapon".
I agree it's too early to commit, but I enjoy noodling over possibilities. Based on our GM, we're likely to see a wide range of circumstances with time; he's good! But for the moment the setting is islands and boats and thus sometimes unpunchable enemies.
I admit I'm torn about Stand Still whether or not I displace it with archery or something else. I can see that it's mechanically very good, especially in conjunction with Wolf Stance and tripping (and later possibly Wolf Drag). But it does feel kind of boring, doubling or tripling down on melee effectiveness. I'm already planning to take another strong-but-boring melee feat in Stunning Fist because what is more stunning and/or hilarious than being punched by a wee halfling at, um, halfling height?
From the player standpoint, my metagaming goal is to be the combat backup guy. Take the pointy side of flanks when not suicidal, do Battle Medicine, run to where help is needed most, etc. Ranged attacks might fit in there since nobody is specializing in that, but, again, I like the point that monks can be their own "ranged option". (And if we last to higher levels, I'm really enamored of the Ki mobility feats like Abundant Step and Wind Jump.) The rest of the party are a rogue, champion, alchemist, sorcerer, druid, and mystery TBD. Players are a mix of old-timers and TTRPG novices.

Gortle |

I admit I'm torn about Stand Still whether or not I displace it with archery or something else.
It is the perennial problem with PF2 characters. You can't take everything.
It is up to you:
Go full into archery - there is a good feat chain there and make melee the backup.
Just take the bow with Monastic Archer
Or stay melee focused and make do with a Crossbow or a Sling when you need to.

Captain Morgan |

With the previewed changes to spellcasting proficiency, a decent option is scooping up some cantrips to fill the gap. Ancestry feats can do it, but so could a druid dip. Ray of Frost has great range, and electric arc makes a decent pairing with flurry of blows if you want to devote your whole turn to damage.

Dragonhearthx |
With the previewed changes to spellcasting proficiency, a decent option is scooping up some cantrips to fill the gap. Ancestry feats can do it, but so could a druid dip. Ray of Frost has great range, and electric arc makes a decent pairing with flurry of blows if you want to devote your whole turn to damage.
the big major problem with that strategy is that it falls behind in terms of accuracy after level 5 or so. And you would have to invest in a good amount of charisma/wisdom. (Ancestry for charisma. Druid for wisdom)

Castilliano |

As a Halfling, at 5th there's the Ancestry feat Cultural Adaptability which allows you to get Adopted Ancestry & a free 1st level feat. Take Human, use that to get Natural Ambition to get your Monastic Archer for what I'd say is much less; 4th level Class > 5th level Ancestry IMO.
You'll still have the issue of investing in the bow, but a bow several levels behind (fired in a Flurry by a max Dex martial w/ Stunning Fist) is way superior to nothing, a similar sling/crossbow, or a low-Proficiency Cantrip. And landing a Stun on a flying opponent often wrecks their attack pattern since they have to maintain flight too.
Note that Stand Still works well vs. a good portion of flying enemies, those that swoop, Strike, & retreat.
AA-Human also opens up Multitalented at 9th, one of the best Ancestry feats, to get some Cantrips via a caster MCD. Currently those would best be non-offensive (i.e. Shield + a timely utility to free up other casters' slots) because it seems like you don't have a Ki feat for your Proficiency to increase.

Gortle |

the big major problem with that strategy is that it falls behind in terms of accuracy after level 5 or so. And you would have to invest in a good amount of charisma/wisdom. (Ancestry for charisma. Druid for wisdom)
The main problem with this type of thinking is that sometimes Plan A is a zero. It is OK to be 30% behind in efficiency for Plan B. Especially if it is something you aren't overly invested in.

Dragonhearthx |
The main problem with this type of thinking is that sometimes Plan A is a zero. It is OK to be 30% behind in efficiency for Plan B. Especially if it is something you aren't overly invested in.
as your only source of a ranged option, it would be your only plan. And I don't think it's 30% it will most likely be 50% or more considering that you most likely not have a 16 or 18 in your casting stat. Especially if it's charisma.

BrotherHanson |
As a Halfling, at 5th there's the Ancestry feat Cultural Adaptability which allows you to get Adopted Ancestry & a free 1st level feat. Take Human, use that to get Natural Ambition to get your Monastic Archer for what I'd say is much less; 4th level Class > 5th level Ancestry IMO.
That combination is actually what prompted this question! When creating this character, I had roughly planned out taking Wolf Stance, Stunning Fist, and then Ki [Rush|Strike]. Then I noticed I could squeeze in Monastic Archer with Cultural Adaptability. Or any level 4 class feat for that matter, so then archery is effectively displacing Stand Still or Medic Dedication or Acrobat Dedication.
I'm still liking the "monk as their own ranged option" thought though. It fits the character too; he's a bit of an overconfident hothead now. Once he learns that some baddies have reactions, he could take Guarded Movement (also level 4) to make it more viable! That would in turn fit my combat backup goals by adding the quasi-skill "Lore: Does This Thing have AOO?" and making it easier to get to wherever I'm needed.
Still curious if anyone has done the Monastic Archer as backup option thing though, and if they found it viable.

Captain Morgan |
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Captain Morgan wrote:With the previewed changes to spellcasting proficiency, a decent option is scooping up some cantrips to fill the gap. Ancestry feats can do it, but so could a druid dip. Ray of Frost has great range, and electric arc makes a decent pairing with flurry of blows if you want to devote your whole turn to damage.the big major problem with that strategy is that it falls behind in terms of accuracy after level 5 or so. And you would have to invest in a good amount of charisma/wisdom. (Ancestry for charisma. Druid for wisdom)
Falling behind in accuracy isn't really a concern anymore because monks get scaling spellcastong proficiency if they take a ki spell. Now that spell proficiency isn't divided by tradition, they are just two levels behind a full caster in whatever they choose. It does require investment in a mental stat, but it isn't like wisdom is ever a bad stat to have.

BrotherHanson |
Cultural adaptability to pick up Natural ambition would still only let you take level 1 class feat even if you take it at level 5
That's correct. But in this specific case it's effectively letting me take a level 4 feat. Without it, I'm inclined to do Wolf Stance at 1 (already done), Stunning Fist at 2, and then Ki Something at 4. With Cultural Adaptability, I could take the Ki feat at level 5 and something else at level 4. I'm warming to Guarded Movement but would still love to know if people have had fun with Monastic Archer Stance as a backup option.
I think it will likely fly with my GM. We both like to have story reasons for character choices. This character's backstory doesn't include any humans, but the setting is full of them. (Given how often we actually meet, in actual calendar terms there is a long time before level 4-5 choices need to be nailed down.)

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Using a javelin was mentioned above. Please note that a javelin is a thrown weapon; you hurl it with your Strength. It also has a range of 30', which isn't much of a problem for a Monk to travel (also mentioned above). So it's usefull vs flyers, people on rooftops above you, etc.
I believe the Monk build mentioned above is Dex based rather than Str. Alas!

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Using a javelin was mentioned above. Please note that a javelin is a thrown weapon; you hurl it with your Strength. It also has a range of 30', which isn't much of a problem for a Monk to travel (also mentioned above). So it's usefull vs flyers, people on rooftops above you, etc.
I believe the Monk build mentioned above is Dex based rather than Str. Alas!
This is wrong. Thrown weapons use dex to hit. You might be thinking of Starfinder?
(I actually like the Starfinder rule because it helps strength-oriented martials find a ranged option.)