Three questions regarding the runelord archetype


Rules Discussion


According to page 240 of Secrets of Magic, my runelord PC will lose the ability to prepare or cast any spell from his school's prohibited schools. He removes all spells of those schools from his spell list, meaning he can't even activate scrolls or wands of such spells.

Which raises three questions:

1. Can he still use Trick Magic Item feat to activate scrolls or wands of any spell from his prohibited schools?

2. Can he still use rituals from his prohibited school? For example, can a runelord of lust cast the Resurrect ritual, even though it belongs to the necromancy school? Does he need to use Trick Magic Item feat to cast a ritual from his prohibited schools?

3. I wish to make a runelord of lust PC but I think the restriction is too severe. Seriously, giving up two school? Actually I have no problem with prohibiting necromancy because there is no useful or powerful necromancy spell in the arcane list, I guess. But there are so many useful spells in transmutation! It's so painful to be denied by them. I guess my main question is, what if I make a house rule that says "The runelord archetype only requires you to give up one school. For example, a runelord of lust should choose between necromancy and transmutation. One of them will be his prohibited school."? I mean, would it make the runelord archetype too powerful and broken?


We are talking about a Rare option here, so having to make difficult judgement calls is going to be expected. Ultimately your table will have to make the final decisions on all of these.

Aenigma wrote:
1. Can he still use Trick Magic Item feat to activate scrolls or wands of any spell from his prohibited schools?

The point of Trick Magic Item is to use items with spells that are not on your tradition list. So having more spells that are not on your tradition list shouldn't change that. I would rule that you can still use Trick Magic Item for what used to be Arcane spells for you, just like you can use Trick Magic Item for spells that are only Divine/Primal/Occult spells.

Aenigma wrote:
2. Can he still use rituals from his prohibited school? For example, can a runelord of lust cast the Resurrect ritual, even though it belongs to the necromancy school? Does he need to use Trick Magic Item feat to cast a ritual from his prohibited schools?

Even non-spellcasters can use Rituals. So I would use the same logic as for Trick Magic Item. You aren't using your class's spellcasting to cast the Ritual, additional restrictions on your spellcasting wouldn't make a difference.

Trick Magic Item wouldn't apply to rituals. They are not cast from items.

Aenigma wrote:
3. I wish to make a runelord of lust PC but I think the restriction is too severe. Seriously, giving up two school? Actually I have no problem with prohibiting necromancy because there is no useful or powerful necromancy spell in the arcane list, I guess. But there are so many useful spells in transmutation! It's so painful to be denied by them. I guess my main question is, what if I make a house rule that says "The runelord archetype only requires you to give up one school. For example, a runelord of lust should choose between necromancy and transmutation. One of them will be his prohibited school."? I mean, would it make the runelord archetype too powerful and broken?

Well, you can make whatever houserules your table agrees to.

I think this is a significant change to the balance of the archetype. Being able to choose the one school that you aren't planning on using the spells from is a lot lower of a cost than losing both schools.

I wouldn't go for it, but I am not your GM.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

While normally I am not a fan of things that limit a player greatly the forbidden schools (until any upcoming retcons) are a big lore piece of the Runelords and Sin/Rune magic. Also the trade off is a 5th slot. While I don't think not having two prohibited schools would be op it is against the spirit of the arctype and there are some other fun things in there like Combining a staff and a polearm so although not the best you get a bit of a gish in there.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I know this a bit off-topic but...

I'm afraid that this archetype could end being removed from remaster due its concept being entirely based in the old spell school. Even now the spells of RoE is currently incompatible with it.


It would certainly need reworked at the least.

But it is also in Secrets of Magic, so it isn't going to be removed from the core books of the Remaster - it was never in them to begin with.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I belive at Paizo con they either mentioned or responded to a comment about the remastered spell schools and the runelord archetype. They are aware it and other archetypes will break and they want to fix them.

I think just adding new Cirriculum for each Sin/Virtue and giving a new or cleric focus spell for the Cirriculum would work quite elegantly and most of their feats could just be wizard feats with maybe 1st or 2nd level prerequisite feat. With spells not having school traits anymore I don't know how prohibited schools would even work. I am intrested to see what the new Runelord lore will be maybe the old lore will stay and exist as is and New Rune/Sin mages work differently as a result of the events in Return of the Runelords and any new mages taught or inspired by Sorshen, Belmirus (and Maybe Xandergul) use new principals instead of the 10k+ year old archaic ones.


Wait what? Will spell schools be removed from Pathfinder Remaster? I've never even heard it! First the alignment, and now the spell schools? I'm more and more thinking that maybe Remaster was not a good idea. :(

Anyway, was it announced at the PaizoCon 2023? Or perhaps at the Gen Con 2023? Is there any post in this website that summarizes it?


This was over announced and over discussed already.
Anyway this is also described in remaster preview document:

Pathfinder Core Preview Pg. 4 - School Removal wrote:

Spells no longer have spell schools, which removes the abjuration, conjuration, divination, enchantment, evocation, necromancy, and transmutation traits. There is still an “illusion” trait that follows the same rules as before, but it’s no longer a “school,” just a trait.

This change makes obsolete a small number of items, archetypes, and other rules elements, which will get errata as needed closer to the release of the books. The wizard sees the greatest number of changes.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Three questions regarding the runelord archetype All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.