How would you price an oil of life?

[Senko]

So after a lot of hunting I've come to the conclusion there is no listing for the oil of life made with the quicksilver from a philosopher's stone. It can be made by mixing the quicksilver with any cure potion to make an oil of life that works as true ressurection on any body its sprinkled on. How would you price the oil and would it matter what type of cure potion was used? On the one hand I want to use the potion guidelines for a theoretical 9th level spell potion, on the other you're losing an artifact to make this and they don't have prices.

[Azothath]

this item exceeds the limitations of the Brew Potion feat. Funny as you just complained about it elsewhere. So designer input is "don't do this" via Brew Potion.

The "Oil of Life" mentioned in the Philosopher's Stone entry is only good for 24 hrs, so it is an alternate effect of the opened stone with the cure potion a justification. It has no price as it is the effect of a minor artifact. At best the equivalence is $50000 (from the transmutation of lead).
The shelf life is the clear concern.

I'd make this as its own minor artifact with Brew Potion as a requirement. Stylize it after the "waters of life" or "fountain of youth". See search "resurrection" then Necklace of Ensured Return $120000, and Argental Font (minor artifact). True Resurrection:C9 material component $25000 diamond. NPC casting =10*9*17 =$1530, Scroll(crafting cost) = (25*9*17)/2 =$1912.5 & 4 days. Similar item $120000 [neck] so slotless is $240000.
In a practical way it would make more sense to just keep a Philosopher's Stone handy with any old Cure Lgt Potion $50.

[OmniMage]

My first thought was to price it as a potion/oil. 9 * 17 * 50 gp = 7,650 gp. The spell also needs a diamond worth 25,000 gp, so the total comes to 32,650 gp.

*Note that you can't make a potion/oil of a spell higher than 3rd level.

A problem one should keep in mind is that you can't make such an oil of life at any time you want. You need a philosopher's stone to make one. A philosopher's stone is a minor artifact and thus has no market price. Logically, an oil of life is also an artifact because it has an artifact as an ingredient, and thus should have no market price.

Another thing one should keep in mind that an oil of life mimics the effects of a spell that a 17th level cleric can cast. True Resurrection. The market price for such is spell would be 26,530 gp (1,530 gp for the spell + 25000 gp for the material component).

Another thought is the artifact could be used to transmute metals instead of making an oil of life. In which case the philosopher's stone could be worth as much as 25000 gp or 50000 gp depending what kind of transmutation you perform. Making an oil of life makes you lose out on that boon.

I don't think the kind of cure potion matters. The description say it can be mixed with *any* cure potion to create an oil of life.

[Mysterious Stranger]

The philosopher’s stone is considered a minor artifact. In order to make the oil of life you need to use up the artifact. That makes the oil of life a minor artifact. As such is beyond normal pricing.

[Senko]

Azothath wrote:

this item exceeds the limitations of the Brew Potion feat. Funny as you just complained about it elsewhere. So designer input is "don't do this" via Brew Potion.

The "Oil of Life" mentioned in the Philosopher's Stone entry is only good for 24 hrs, so it is an alternate effect of the opened stone with the cure potion a justification. It has no price as it is the effect of a minor artifact. At best the equivalence is $50000 (from the transmutation of lead).
The shelf life is the clear concern.

I'd make this as its own minor artifact with Brew Potion as a requirement. Stylize it after the "waters of life" or "fountain of youth". See search "resurrection" then Necklace of Ensured Return $120000, and Argental Font (minor artifact). True Resurrection:C9 material component $25000 diamond. NPC casting =10*9*17 =$1530, Scroll(crafting cost) = (25*9*17)/2 =$1912.5 & 4 days. Similar item $120000 [neck] so slotless is $240000.
In a practical way it would make more sense to just keep a Philosopher's Stone handy with any old Cure Lgt Potion $50.

Oh I know and very much suspect this is the same slipped through the cracks issue as wrath of the righteous states the party can find an oil of life made with a cure serious potion. Which ignores the whole 24 hours use or you just have a cure serious and is a bad idea to make up before you need it.

I was just wondering since you can make it per the specific philosophers stone special rule and an alchemist can make one once a month for 25 thousand gold (again special rules) how one would price such a thing if you were mad enough to find a philosophers stone, make an oil of life then try to sell it in 24 hours. Alternatively sell it before hand. Why this is in advice not rules.

[OmniMage]

Sounds like the author of that adventure path got the details of the philosopher's stone wrong.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Creating a Philosopher’s Stone requires a 20th level alchemist who chooses it as their grand discovery. So, basically it is a capstone of the alchemist class. The 20th level alchemist can create one per month at no cost. That means that alchemist can create an almost unlimited amount of wealth. Assuming 1,000 pounds of lead cost 100 GP an alchemist can make 49,900 gold each month. At that point gold does not really matter to the character.

20th level alchemists are going to be incredibly rare. So, anyone capable of making this is going to be difficult to find. It is going to be a lot easier to find 17th level cleric to cast True Resurrection. That being said the pricing of oil is probably more than likely going to be us something besides gold or other treasure.

[Azothath]

Senko wrote:

...

Oh I know and very much suspect this is the same slipped through the cracks issue as wrath of the righteous states the party can find an oil of life made with a cure serious potion. Which ignores the whole 24 hours use or you just have a cure serious and is a bad idea to make up before you need it.

I was just wondering since you can make it per the specific philosophers stone special rule and an alchemist can make one once a month...

said item byproduct appears in AP #74, pg 43, printed 2013-09-25 (same release date as Mythic Realms, Mythic Adventures 2013-08-19). The NPC in question does not have the class levels nor skill ranks to make or use this item. He does have the connections to get it with time. There is some active mercury left (no amount given but the fact that some is there is to clue you in that it was just mixed...) so one >presumes< it was mixed when PCs started in the building as a precaution. I could rummage through the AP but it is safe to assume nobody there could do it (mostly 8th level) - so it's a safety net should any PCs perish. It is found after what is considered a mythic battle (which was new at the time).

I think it was an intentional easy to use safety net item for the PCs to use (and in the case of clever PCs some extra cash).

Should it be an item you could manufacture in a non-mythic game?
hmmm... that's really up to the GM's taste. Like the Ring of Seven Lovely Colors I'd say broken on printing. It could use some toning down. The Oil of Life "as is" my earlier suggestion I'd make this as its own minor artifact with Brew Potion as a requirement. Stylize it after the "waters of life" or "fountain of youth". is spot on.
Like any good Advice, when it is outside of RAW that puts you in Home Game or Homebrew territory and I let you know that. I also gave you references and similar items along with some price comparisons. Is it crazy? yes - it's a ninth level spell!

The game is not uniformly consistent. There are technical mistakes throughout the various products. Does this make them legal standard items? OOOOhhh I'd say NO as even PFS had to ban some stuff. So as a GM you can use that broken fodder to instill some unique items in your home game. PCs have to go through their GM.

It would be a very interesting outcome to see a PC use the item as outlined in the AP to bring the BBEG back so he can stand trial thereby providing Justice for all those done wrong.

Raise Dead:C(5-6) or Breath of Life:C5 plus Invigorating Repose:C5 would be more suitable for 8-12th level characters.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Not sure the oil of life has a time limit. The description of the philosopher's stone states the quicksilver becomes unstable and that all transmutations must take place within that period. The next paragraph states you can also mix the quicksilver with a cure potion to create a special oil of life. It makes no mention of the oil having a limited lifespan. It seems to me that when you mix the quicksilver with the cure potion it transmutes the cure potion into oil of life. If the oil only remains active for 24 hours why does the gold last more than a day?

[Azothath]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Not sure the oil of life has a time limit. The description of the philosopher's stone states the quicksilver becomes unstable and that all transmutations must take place within that period. The next paragraph states you can also mix the quicksilver with a cure potion to create a special oil of life. It makes no mention of the oil having a limited lifespan. It seems to me that when you mix the quicksilver with the cure potion it transmutes the cure potion into oil of life. If the oil only remains active for 24 hours why does the gold last more than a day?

...However, the quicksilver becomes unstable once the stone is opened and loses its potency within 24 hours, so all transmutations must take place within that period.

The quicksilver found in the center of the stone may also be put to another use. If mixed with any cure potion while the substance is still potent, it creates a special oil of life that acts as a true resurrection spell for any dead body it is sprinkled upon.
"while the substance is still potent"... sure sounds like a time limit...
oil of life (the phrase is not italicized, whereas philosopher's stone and true resurrection is) shows it is really just descriptive to give the thing a name.

[Senko]

OmniMage wrote:

Sounds like the author of that adventure path got the details of the philosopher's stone wrong.

Maybe, I could also see it being a plot hook and if you assume the oil of life has a 24 hour duration as well it would explain them specifying its used with a cure serious potion. The party has up to 24 hours to use it o ressurect a dead PC if needed or a GM bring back an enemy. Then it becomes a cure serious again meaning while the PC's had a get out of death free card and a powerful artifact level item to do it the WBL and power levels aren't affected by it because it self-destructs in a day.

[Diego Rossi]

Azothath wrote:

...However, the quicksilver becomes unstable once the stone is opened and loses its potency within 24 hours, so all transmutations must take place within that period.

The quicksilver found in the center of the stone may also be put to another use. If mixed with any cure potion while the substance is still potent, it creates a special oil of life that acts as a true resurrection spell for any dead body it is sprinkled upon.
"while the substance is still potent"... sure sounds like a time limit...
oil of life (the phrase is not italicized, whereas philosopher's stone and true resurrection is) shows it is really just descriptive to give the thing a name.

You need to mix it while the quicksilver is "still potent", but that doesn't automatically mean that the oil of life has the same duration as the quicksilver. In RL several chemical products are unstable until they are combined with other products, but the final product is stable.

The "oil of life" has a limit that True Resurrection hasn't: you need a body, or, as a minimum some piece of the creature, while True Resurrection can resurrect someone even without his body, as long as you can "unambiguously identify the deceased". The oil needs to be sprinkled on the dead body.

@Senko: It is a McGuffny, but if needed I would price the oil a bit above a scroll of True Resurrection. It is a bit more limited but easier to use, so 30,000 gp seems about right.

[Senko]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Azothath wrote:

...However, the quicksilver becomes unstable once the stone is opened and loses its potency within 24 hours, so all transmutations must take place within that period.

The quicksilver found in the center of the stone may also be put to another use. If mixed with any cure potion while the substance is still potent, it creates a special oil of life that acts as a true resurrection spell for any dead body it is sprinkled upon.
"while the substance is still potent"... sure sounds like a time limit...
oil of life (the phrase is not italicized, whereas philosopher's stone and true resurrection is) shows it is really just descriptive to give the thing a name.

You need to mix it while the quicksilver is "still potent", but that doesn't automatically mean that the oil of life has the same duration as the quicksilver. In RL several chemical products are unstable until they are combined with other products, but the final product is stable.

The "oil of life" has a limit that True Resurrection hasn't: you need a body, or, as a minimum some piece of the creature, while True Resurrection can resurrect someone even without his body, as long as you can "unambiguously identify the deceased". The oil needs to be sprinkled on the dead body.

@Senko: It is a McGuffny, but if needed I would price the oil a bit above a scroll of True Resurrection. It is a bit more limited but easier to use, so 30,000 gp seems about right.

Useful to know even if random dice rolls in my solo play of wrath (to get myself settled back in before doing return of the runelords the winters war) did end up requiring it be used to ressurect someone.