Permanency and Magic Item Effects on a valid target that later becomes an invalid target


Rules Questions


Hello,

We know of the Shillelagh Precedence, in that the spell checks for validity only upon casting, and the target becoming invalid does not suppress the effect. Does this also work on magic item targeting as well?

Here are two completely different cases.

Case #1) Permanency

Invisibility can be made permanent via Permanency, but only on objects.

A dead creature is an object.

If that creature is brought back to life, it is no longer an object - would the Permanency effect persist and the creature remain invisible forever (so long as it doesn't attack another creature)?

Case #2) Magic Item Effect

The magic item Fortifying Stone (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/r-z/stone-fortifying/) is attached to an object, and Possess Object targets the object, which turns it into an Animated Object and thus a creature and no longer an object. Do the effects of Fortifying Stone carry over onto the creature, giving it temp HP and additional hardness?


You ask tricky questions. I've read and reread the permanency spell and it does not mention how it would work in your examples. Here are my rulings instead.

1) I would rule that permanent spells remain permanent, but don't work when the thing affected becomes an invalid target, and will resume working when the thing becomes a valid target once more. To use your example, if a corpse is raised, then killed, it will become invisible once more.

2) I would also rule that magic items don't work when the thing it affects becomes invalid target. To use your example, I would have the stone falls off the construct as it is an invalid target for the stone to be attached to.


There will always be disagreement on this sort of matter. There is nothing in the rules that states an effect requires the target "stay valid". Officially, "target" is only referenced for the casting of a spell. But there is an issue when the subject of the spell ceases to be anything like the original subject, because the spell never accounted for that interaction.

Separately, a dead creature is not really an object. It's simply a creature with the dead condition.


1. Not really an issue, since invisibility can be cast on objects and creatures. The permanency aspect of the question is little different than casting invisibility on a corpse and then raising it. It would be invisible until the creature attacked, did something else to dispel the invisibility.

Similarly, if you cast permanency and invisibility on a broom or rock, then used animate objects it will be invisible until something happens to remove the spell, even though the object technically becomes a creature (construct), which you can't normally have invisibility used with permanency..

I can see the same deal for casting magic jar until you enter (willingly and with permission, one would hope) your allies' bodies.
While in their bodies, you could use permanency to make things like darkvision permanent on them, since you count as yourself, regardless of body.

This would apply to spells that go on a body, obviously. If it was mental, like fox's cunning you'd assume that goes with the mind and conscience, as opposed to a bull's strength or mage armor on a body, which you would either lose or gain, depending on if it was on your own body or your target's when you jumped into them.

Doing that was how my necromancer gave all my party members, greater buffs than normal (though that was in a 3.5 game).

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