Remaster Fire


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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I don't want to come to the forums anymore, because there's so much remaster discussion ongoing. I heard so many awesome things coming, I'm too excited now. The best iteration of the game to date is getting better. There's way more goodness coming than I expected in my wildest dreams. It's overwhelmingly positive, and it says incredible things about Paizo recognizing its ability to change in this tumultuous moment. I just want to send my money and get my pdfs, and I want it now.

The wait for the remaster is killing me.

Also, thanks, WotC!!! None of this would have been possible without you.


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Plane wrote:
Also, thanks, WotC!!! None of this would have been possible without you.

I have wondered if WotC did not in fact get what they wanted out of this. They have more or less forced Paizo's hand here.

Liberty's Edge

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Gortle wrote:
Plane wrote:
Also, thanks, WotC!!! None of this would have been possible without you.

I have wondered if WotC did not in fact get what they wanted out of this. They have more or less forced Paizo's hand here.

What did WotC get that they wanted ?

You lost me there.


The Raven Black wrote:
Gortle wrote:
Plane wrote:
Also, thanks, WotC!!! None of this would have been possible without you.

I have wondered if WotC did not in fact get what they wanted out of this. They have more or less forced Paizo's hand here.

What did WotC get that they wanted ?

You lost me there.

I would imagine there is a perception that Paizo jettisoning the OGL and forging their own path, possibly into weeds and wilderness, will “get them lost”, or for those that only care for WotC, at least remove them as a “true” competitor for cultural, social, economic and “spiritual” dominance of ye oldest RPG.


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Gortle wrote:
Plane wrote:
Also, thanks, WotC!!! None of this would have been possible without you.

I have wondered if WotC did not in fact get what they wanted out of this. They have more or less forced Paizo's hand here.

That would require insight and data that I doubt any of us here are privy to, so most of it would be speculation.

If the intent of the OGL change was to isolate themselves to be able to use their own content and nobody else can, then I suppose it is a win, though it did have a hefty cost of people dropping subscriptions and having reduced faith in the company (to the point of boycotting the products), some of which will either never be bought back or will require a lot more good faith advertising to regain lost revenue.

If the intent was to attempt to claim royalties to people using their content (as seemed to be the original plan), then I doubt it will have succeeded at that goal, given that Paizo and others are, as has been said, "forging their own path" away from this, meaning they won't be getting royalties out of their creations, and they can't get royalties out of previous creations since the change will no longer function retroactively (because of it did, then the former intent will not succeed at all, which I suspect is a driving force behind their choice).

And if the intent was to force opposing companies into submission by threatening legal action, only time will tell us if that will have been successful or not. Until we either get confirmation that the Remaster is 100% done, or that a lawsuit is pending from Hasbro, the only thing keeping this from being a success is the lawyers doing their job.


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It seems to me that WotC did what WotC is wont to do: They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by boosting their competition. Again.

Overall I prefer 5E as a rules system to Pathfinder 2E; I simply cannot in good conscience financially support a company that behaves as WotC repeatedly has. Paizo ain't perfect, but they're leagues better than WotC, and they seem to genuinely try to learn from their mistakes.

Radiant Oath

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This is far more likely to have been ordered by some Hasbro exec who has no idea what problems he's causing to WotC by ordering this, in a move to generate more revenue.

It's a loss for Paizo, in that it caused them to sink a bunch of time & effort into the remaster. It's a win for Paizo in that they created and are leading the charge into ORC, and WotC/Hasbro got a lot of bad press over it.


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Sir Belmont the Valiant, II wrote:

This is far more likely to have been ordered by some Hasbro exec who has no idea what problems he's causing to WotC by ordering this, in a move to generate more revenue.

It's a loss for Paizo, in that it caused them to sink a bunch of time & effort into the remaster. It's a win for Paizo in that they created and are leading the charge into ORC, and WotC/Hasbro got a lot of bad press over it.

Oh, no doubt. It has "clueless MBA" written all over it.

And yeah, it's a short term hit, but in the long term it's best to sever relations when a partner repeatedly demonstrates that they cannot be trusted.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The Raven Black wrote:
Gortle wrote:
Plane wrote:
Also, thanks, WotC!!! None of this would have been possible without you.

I have wondered if WotC did not in fact get what they wanted out of this. They have more or less forced Paizo's hand here.

What did WotC get that they wanted ?

You lost me there.

Hasbro believes that were it not for the existence of the OGL, they'd be making more money than Tesla does... ;)

So yeah... one way or another they're gonna kill the OGL. If not outright, then by just being the guy that keeps leaving a nasty smell in the room until everyone else clears out.

Dark Archive

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Seems to me the goal was never to sink Pathfinder. That ship had long ago sailed. I think, rather, their aim was to keep another Paizo from rearing it's head during a possibly tumultuous new edition launch. Of course, if they hurt Paizo along the way, all the better.

As soon as all of this started, it was obvious to me that paizo was gonna make a new edition. Of course, whether it was closer to 2.5 or PF3 was still unclear to me until the remaster came about. They can call this a 'remaster' all they'd like and they aren't wrong, but this is basically a new edition that is just ultra compatible with 2e.

Overall, I think this is kinda the best of both worlds. All the OGL stuff is still out there for folks to use if they want it, and we're still gonna get a ton of new stuff.

WotC definitely did the Paizo fanbase a favor in more then one way. More players, more content, significant errata. Who am I to complain.


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I really think that the OGL hullabaloo was based more on "some exec at Hasbro recognizes that one of their legacy brands was popular but not that profitable" and someone else looked around and thought "*HOW* much is Critical Role making and we're not getting a cent?"

Since they're probably more interested in getting a piece of the next multimedia phenomenon based on their product than they are at doing anything to Paizo or Chaosium or Pelgrane or any of the significantly smaller fish.


The Raven Black wrote:
Gortle wrote:
Plane wrote:
Also, thanks, WotC!!! None of this would have been possible without you.

I have wondered if WotC did not in fact get what they wanted out of this. They have more or less forced Paizo's hand here.

What did WotC get that they wanted ?

You lost me there.

To jettison what they see as free loaders travelling on their coat tails. It is not true of course. D&D is a success because of the community and independant gaming companies. But if that was their goal....

Liberty's Edge

Thank you all for the input. And I can see how the idea of people profiting for free from WotC's marketing efforts by association through the OGL would raise the hackles of Hasbro executives, especially when they were going full public awareness and popularity through the DnD movie.

In a way, they're going the Apple way (for personal computers) rather than the IBM way. Proprietary ecosystem rather than open collaboration.

It does fit the current global zeitgeist too IMO.


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Hasbro and WotC are fools. If they wanted a piece of the action, they should have contributed to it. Writing premium content (Critical Role) is a ton of work. They could have offered to put a team on it and then advertised the adventure for sale.

Spreading goodwill by fostering a great community is where it's at. That's always been the way. Now Paizo has the initiative and a strong enough position that people are excited to see some sacred cows removed at last.

It's turning out to be a great year for the game.


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And here there was me, getting all excited that this was about some leak about a remaster of how fire damage works... :P


shroudb wrote:
And here there was me, getting all excited that this was about some leak about a remaster of how fire damage works... :P

I would assume it works exactly the same way. Fire is hot, it burns you. Some things are especially vulnerable to burning, but some things are even immune to it.

Grand Lodge

shroudb wrote:
And here there was me, getting all excited that this was about some leak about a remaster of how fire damage works... :P

Not kidding...that's what the title suggested to me, too! LOL

Liberty's Edge

PossibleCabbage wrote:
shroudb wrote:
And here there was me, getting all excited that this was about some leak about a remaster of how fire damage works... :P
I would assume it works exactly the same way. Fire is hot, it burns you. Some things are especially vulnerable to burning, but some things are even immune to it.

Fire burns you except if thrown with Telekinetic Projectile (say a torch).

Whereas silver burns werewolves even if thrown with Telekinetic Projectile.

Wonders never cease.


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There was some news about fire actually iirc.

Communities like Absalom will stop demonizing fire as a destroyer, and fire will become a playable ancestry.

Others may think you're looking for an opportunity to spread your people at any cost by lighting them on fire, but fire does a lot of good, too. It cooks, it cleans, and it spreads warmth.

In combat, you look for opportunities to spread your people by setting things on fire.

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