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As the title,I want to reach feral combat training for my build but my DM says since my race is human and I only have claws while the bloodrage, I cannot get weapon focus(claw) because the claw is not a nature weapon that I always have proficiency.
Is that true? If so, what can I do to get feral combat training legally?
Yes you can get the feat of weapon focus (claw), there is no problem whit that, the feat will activate when you use your claw ability, and if you cast beast form, form of the dragon or other transformation that give you claws attack.
At 1st level, you grow claws. These claws are treated as NATURAL WEAPON, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack, using your full base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d6 points of damage each (1d4 if you are Small) plus your Strength modifier. At 4th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 8th level, the damage increases to 1d8 points (1d6 if you are Small). At 12th level, these claws deal an additional 1d6 points of damage of your energy type on a hit.
You can get feral combat training fine. But I wonder why, since you aren’t a monk.
You can get feral combat training fine. But I wonder why, since you aren’t a monk.
Well it's not necessary to be a monk or a brawler, of course you lose the benefits of the damage of unarmed strike and the flurry ability, but you can apply all unarmed strike feat whit your natural attack (stunning claws attack hehe)
All right my DM's opinion is that if I want to choose weapon focus(claw) I have
to ALWAYS have my claws.
As I can just active my claws for about 6 rounds(bloodrage) so I cannot get that feat.
So, a fighter has to always hold his sword and never lay it down to get weapon focus in sword?
Your GM is wrong, but there probably isn’t anything you can do to prove it to him. You may have to go with a different build.
Ok let take in consideration the druid, at lvl 4 she gain the wild shape so she can let her to gain claws attack when she is in beat form, but she can take weapon focus before se gets lvl 4 (let say lvl 3 ) so when she gain the wild shape she received the benefits of weapon focus claw, she doesn't need to wait for lvl 5 to gain such feat, the second example is empower spell, i can take that feat at lvl 1 if I want to of course is useless until I reach lvl 2 of spell (so I can cast a cantrip empowered, useless) but that doesn't prevent me to take.
Now for the proficiency all creature gain proficiency whit there natural attack and since you gain a temporal claws you are still proficiency whit this natural attack
Now the feat said:
Weapon Focus (Combat)
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
In no place of the feat said that you need the weapon at hand or always active (claws) you just need to be proficiency
Like I said, you probably won’t be able to change his mind. Frankly he seems rather unreasonable to forbid something so weak in the first place. That feat is mostly for flavor builds. Even if you cheesed it really hard, you would merely be competing with what you could do if you just used the feat to grab a butchering axe.
All right my DM's opinion is that if I want to choose weapon focus(claw) I have to ALWAYS have my claws.
Ask him for a rule quote on that. He won't be able to provide one.
If the GM doesn't want you to have the feat, that doesn't help you much, though, as RAW, you need to have the claws when you select the feat, i.e. during levelup. But maybe it can make the GM think about it, when he looks for a rule that says you need permanent stuff, and can't find one.
What is the goal, here? What do you want to do with Feral Combat Training? Maybe it can be done in a different way.
So, a fighter has to always hold his sword and never lay it down to get weapon focus in sword?
This is not a valid argument, because you don't need to hold a sword to have proficiency with it, but you creatures only have proficiency with natural weapons they possess.
you lose the benefits of the damage of unarmed strike
You won't get unarmed strike damage for the natural weapon, anyway (that was errata'd out).
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I would require reliable access to the claws to allow a character to take the feat, but 6 rounds/day fall well within my definition of reliable access.
For an argument that maybe can work with your GM, we can look at the fly skill:
You cannot take ranks in this skill without a natural means of flight or gliding. Creatures can also take ranks in Fly if they possess a reliable means of flying every day (either through a spell or other special ability).
Dragon Wings (Su): At 12th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to have leathery wings grow from your back, giving you a fly speed of 60 feet with average maneuverability. At 16th level, your fly speed increases to 80 feet with good maneuverability.
Skill Focus (Fly),
Your GM will not allow you to take the Fly skill because you can't fly outside of a bloodrage?
I would require reliable access to the claws to allow a character to take the feat
No matter how often people keep saying it, this is not an actual rule. None of these words appear in the feat rules.
Your GM will not allow you to take the Fly skill because you can't fly outside of a bloodrage?
Skill Focus (Fly) doesn't require being able to ranks into Fly, but Weapon Focus does require proficiency.
Weapon focus (ray) exists. By the same logic preventing a draconic bloodrager from taking taking wf (claw) no spell caster can take it for ray. Ask your GaM to explain this.
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I would require reliable access to the claws to allow a character to take the featNo matter how often people keep saying it, this is not an actual rule. None of these words appear in the feat rules.
Your GM will not allow you to take the Fly skill because you can't fly outside of a bloodrage?Skill Focus (Fly) doesn't require being able to ranks into Fly, but Weapon Focus does require proficiency.
1) This is the General Discussion forum, if I start with "I would", I am not citing a rule, I am saying how I will rule at my table.
So, why do you try to disprove something that I haven't said?
2) The feat requires proficiency, you get proficiency with your bloodline claws when your bloodline gives you claws, not before. You get them at the first level, you have proficiency at first level.
If, for some reason, you get the claws at a later level (as an example, at 4th level as a Druid, when you get Wildshape), you become proficient from that level onward.
To Silver Iris:
Natural Attacks: Am I proficient in my natural attacks?
Yes. Whether you get those natural attacks from your race (as stated in the Bestiary entry on natural attacks), your class (as stated in the druid proficiency list), a polymorph effect (as stated in the Magic chapter), or any other source (such as an alchemist's feral mutagen), you are proficient in your natural attacks.
posted August 2013 | back to top
The claws you get from your bloodline fall under "any other source".
To Derklord, as I read the FAQ, you need to get the claw, then, from that moment onward, you are proficient.
Well ask your GM if you can modify your character then take the feat wilding so you can go for the aspect of the beast (claws) whit this your gm will satisfy. But I still maintain that you can get the weapon focus claw when you manifest your claws Even if you are lvl 1
1) This is the General Discussion forum, if I start with "I would", I am not citing a rule, I am saying how I will rule at my table.
Ah, I misread it - I read "It would". Sorry about that. I think I'm getting jaded by how often I see people claming that how they'd like the rules to be were what they actually are...
To Derklord, as I read the FAQ, you need to get the claw, then, from that moment onward, you are proficient.
I was thinking about that FAQ, too, but the questionable part is not what you've bolded, it's the last sentence: "you are proficient in your natural attacks." Are claws "your natural attacks" at a time where you don't have claws? The FAQ basically states you have proficiency with any and all natural weapons you have for whatever reason, but doesn't say anything about proficiency with temporary natural weapons at times where you don't have them.
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1) This is the General Discussion forum, if I start with "I would", I am not citing a rule, I am saying how I will rule at my table.Ah, I misread it - I read "It would". Sorry about that. I think I'm getting jaded by how often I see people claming that how they'd like the rules to be were what they actually are...
To Derklord, as I read the FAQ, you need to get the claw, then, from that moment onward, you are proficient.I was thinking about that FAQ, too, but the questionable part is not what you've bolded, it's the last sentence: "you are proficient in your natural attacks." Are claws "your natural attacks" at a time where you don't have claws? The FAQ basically states you have proficiency with any and all natural weapons you have for whatever reason, but doesn't say anything about proficiency with temporary natural weapons at times where you don't have them.
True, I should have said that or "at my table".
I think that the last part of the FAQ answers the question: "Whether you get those natural attacks from ... any other source (such as an alchemist's feral mutagen), you are proficient in your natural attacks. " An alchemist feral mutagen is active for 200 minutes at most, not constantly, but it is cited as a valid source for proficiency with natural weapons.
A 1 level dip in shifter may be annoying but it would get you fairly unquestionable claw proficiency. I still think you should already be able to take weapon focus anyway, but you can almost never change the mind of GMs like this.
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Well ask your GM if you can modify your character then take the feat wilding so you can go for the aspect of the beast (claws) whit this your gm will satisfy. But I still maintain that you can get the weapon focus claw when you manifest your claws Even if you are lvl 1
I absolutely agree with your opinion and I will allow it when playing as GM.Thanks all you guys.
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An alchemist feral mutagen is active for 200 minutes at most, not constantly, but it is cited as a valid source for proficiency with natural weapons.
The problem is that the FAQ isn't about prerequisites, it's about whether or not you get a -4 on attacks. Whether the Alchemist has proficiency only during those 200 minutes of Mutagen, or at all times, is simply not addressed.
The reason the FAQ exists is because the CRB says "All characters are proficient with unarmed strikes and any natural weapons possessed by their race.", which does not cover natural weapons gained from anything else. Druids have explicit rules ("Druids are proficient with [...] all natural attacks [...] of any form they assume with wild shape"), and the polymorph rules grant proficiency ("In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks."), but nothing in the rules grants proficiency for e.g. a Bloodrager's bloodline powers, hence the FAQ.
All right maybe I'll choose Style Shifter for that.
That's pretty much why I was asking about your goals. If you're after e.g. Dragon Style+Dragon Ferocity, a dip makes sense anyway, which can take care of the issue with the limited duration claws.