Secondary natural attacks combined with weapon attacks

[CaptainCrawdad]

Hi all,

I've checked out the discussions on mixing weapon attacks with natural attacks, and I still need some clarification. I've got a ratfolk who wants to use a ratfolk tailblade:

"A ratfolk wielding a tailblade can make a tail attack, adding its Strength modifier to the tailblade’s damage. Ratfolk are considered proficient with such attacks and can apply feats or effects appropriate to natural attacks to tail attacks made with a tailblade. If used as part of a full attack action, attacks with a tailblade are considered secondary attacks."

So how would this work in combination with his weapon attacks once he starts getting multiple weapon attacks?

I assume that, at level 1, with a BAB of +0, he gets 1 attack with his morning star at +0 and a tail attack at -5. But once he gets to BAB +6/+1, does he get morning star attacks at +6/+1 and a tail attack at +1? Or is it just a morning star attack at +6 and a tail attack at +1? Or something else?

Thanks for your help!

[Belafon]

Core Rulebook wrote:

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

So in a full attack you make your weapon attacks as normal, and your natural attack at 5 less than your full BAB.

Morningstar +6/+1 and tailblade +1

[Taja the Barbarian]

Standard Actions / Attack wrote:

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 182

...
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.

Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls.

You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
...

When making a full attack, you get all your normal iterative weapon attacks plus a single tail attack at a -5 penalty that only gets half your strength bonus to damage.

[CaptainCrawdad]

Sounds good. Thanks, guys!

[Tom Sampson]

Secondary natural attacks don't compete with manufactured weapon attacks, not unless they use the same limb to make both attacks. So if you're making a weapon attack with a hand, you don't also get to collect a secondary claw attack with the same hand. But you're not going to make a manufactured weapon attack with your tail, so the secondary natural attack is always just an extra attack, so your full attack gets two attacks (+6/+1) with morningstar and another attack (+1) with tailblade for three attacks total.