PF2R Drow Deux: Electric Boogaloo

[PossibleCabbage]

So the last thread went to great lengths about why Paizo is doing what they are doing with the Drow and why they are not doing something else. It's best to just not go over that again, since complaining on the internet doesn't really cause much to happen except to annoy your fellow posters (and eventually the mods.) The bright line that Paizo is going to hold is that if you expect to find the Drow somewhere on Golarion, you will not do so in a future Paizo book because they are not going to use them in the future. Let us just accept this; there are after all many things that Paizo could use in the future that they likely never will just by accident as the publishing schedule has a finite number of books on it and Golarion is supposed to be an entire world.

*But* you, dear reader, might have used them in the past and your home games are not expected to respect anybody's copyrights nor Paizo's canon. So my question is what do you plan on doing about the Drow shaped hole in your particular version of Golarion?.

Personally, I don't think I'm going to need to do much, since the Drow weren't a noteworthy part of any Pathfinder game I've been a part of. So I don't think I or people I play with have a lot of "places that you would expect the Drow to be."

But there are lots and lots of options and related questions, for example:
- The Drow are still there, we have the rules for several Drow enemies, and it's easiest enough to homebrew Drow NPCs built as PCs (since "ancestry feats" are usually a small part of your power budget.) But if you're doing this, are you going to seed Drow back into Paizo adventures you're running? After all, it was always possible to go into the Darklands and never see a Drow, they were mostly just in Sekamina and that place is huge.
- The Drow were never there. Perhaps time travel (I mean "the Gap" did break causality in Starfinder) was involved, or just "lying" or "secret snekmin" or something. Time traveling stories are fun, but I get why Paizo doesn't want to do them officially so as to not undo their official history (i.e. "what do you do if Iomedae as a mortal just dies during the campaign?")
- The Drow were there, but they left to go elsewhere. Where did they go, why, and do you have plans to let the PCs go there too?
- The Drow were there, but they died off/changed into something else. This is something you could do a whole campaign around- I'm thinking something like "prolonged exposure to blightburn turned a bunch of them into fleshwarps and that turned their culture into fighting itself in a way that resulted in a bunch of purplish fleshwarps and not a lot of elves" but there are a lot of options.

Instead of grousing about things we personally have no control over, why not instead just brainstorm fun things we can do with the situation we're left with.

[Lord Fyre]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

So the last thread went to great lengths about why Paizo is doing what they are doing with the Drow and why they are not doing something else. It's best to just not go over that again, since complaining on the internet doesn't really cause much to happen except to annoy your fellow posters (and eventually the mods.) The bright line that Paizo is going to hold is that if you expect to find the Drow somewhere on Golarion, you will not do so in a future Paizo book because they are not going to use them in the future. Let us just accept this; there are after all many things that Paizo could use in the future that they likely never will just by accident as the publishing schedule has a finite number of books on it and Golarion is supposed to be an entire world.

*But* you, dear reader, might have used them in the past and your home games are not expected to respect anybody's copyrights nor Paizo's canon. So my question is what do you plan on doing about the Drow shaped hole in your particular version of Golarion?.

Personally, I don't think I'm going to need to do much, since the Drow weren't a noteworthy part of any Pathfinder game I've been a part of. So I don't think I or people I play with have a lot of "places that you would expect the Drow to be."

But there are lots and lots of options and related questions, for example:
- The Drow are still there, we have the rules for several Drow enemies, and it's easiest enough to homebrew Drow NPCs built as PCs (since "ancestry feats" are usually a small part of your power budget.) But if you're doing this, are you going to seed Drow back into Paizo adventures you're running? After all, it was always possible to go into the Darklands and never see a Drow, they were mostly just in Sekamina and that place is huge.
- The Drow were never there. Perhaps time travel (I mean "the Gap" did break causality in Starfinder) was involved, or just "lying" or "secret snekmin" or something. Time traveling stories are fun, but I get why Paizo...

The dark elves lost a major, genocidal war against the Serpent Folk who now hold most of the former Drow cities.

This allows for a few survivors (now known as "Cavern Elves") but not many. Paradoxically, this frees the former Drow from the demonic influence.

[The Raven Black]

Possibilities abound :

- Drows finally succumbed to Rovagug who reclaimed the slivers of his power that spawned their ancestral transformation. Almost all drows were disintegrated and their essences, bodies and souls will be used as part of the raw material from which the next Spawn of Rovagug shall rise. A few very lucky drows might have been saved by Proteans who had to change them beyond recognition to sever their link with the Rough Beast.

- Drows were actually from a parallele universe where they finally were able to travel back thanks to a corrupted retro-engineering of the aiudara gates network.

- The Drows turned out to all be Sekmin infiltrators who were so good that they all fooled each other into believing they were Drows. Except for those who were actually Veiled Masters obviously.

[Henro]

I thought the idea that Drow were a conspiracy cooked up by the Snekmin to be pretty funny. It's not a bad plan either, rattle the elves on the surface and make people who delve underground assume any cavern elves they encounter have sinister motives.

[Cintra Bristol]

In my current campaign, one of the PCs is an Anadi. And we encountered Jorogumo, those weird people who look like beautiful humans but can sprout spider legs from their backs to dart about. Leading to the anadi PC complaining bitterly about "horrible people who give spiders a bad name."

Not sure yet if I'll do this, but it certainly seems plausible these folk could just as easily disguise themselves as Elves - and could be the source of legends about spider-elf hybrids (aka the drider myth).

[zeonsghost]

I don't currently have any Drow, but a recurring NPC since my Crimson Throne game is Todd, the Drider Wizard. If asked about it I imagine he'll change the answer every time. Though he probably thinks they were changed by whatever caused New Thassilon to be there and that being close to their ruins in and around Korvosa made him a time paradox. Either that or Yeastwarping a wedding cake created some kind of fixed point in time.

[Kasoh]

I will continue to use them as I have, as its not like I was that deeply connected to the lore they have.

The underground cities where Drow live are bastions of culture and art, having created such works as Star Wars, Fast & Furious, Pulp Fiction, and Back to the Future. Surface art is so drab in comparison to the esoteric and high concept of Drow Art.

It also is the worst excesses of Rich People Nonsense including the infighting and murder and interhouse rivalries.

Actually, I guess the Darklands is just a fantasy take on Hollywood.

Anyway, the most famous Drow at our tables is the Right Hand of the Hurricane King, Captain Sincere Ticktock, Pirate Wizard.

Other well known to the surface Drow from various campaigns are Supercilious, Facetious, Loquacious, and Amiable. Well known and maybe not respected, but certainly feared.

[Charlie Brooks]

What I am likely to do: drow are now represented rules-wise by the cavern elf heritage, and are sinister, demon-worshiping cavern elves.

What I kind of want to do: the drow are secretly playing a long con by using serpentfolk tactics against them. A huge number of serpentfolk in leadership positions are actually drow in disguise.

[MMCJawa]

I shamelessly stole this the initial idea for this from from another poster, so my apologies on forgetting who said this.

Effectively, there were originally major Drow cities. But the timey-whimey antics of the adventuring group involved in the events of Return of the Runelords created ripples in time, one of which resulted in the subterranean elves never completely falling to darkness. This basically led to Drow never being created, rather the elves that stayed underground became the Cavern Elves, which didn't exist in the old timeline. The Cavern Elves weren't nearly as ruthless as the Drow however, which allowed the Serpentfolk to hold onto or reclaim their old cities.

The Serpentfolk are terrified of Zirnakayin, because it exists as a time anomaly, the abandoned ruins of a city that shouldn't exist. Time doesn't work correctly there, and things from the primeval past and the distant future haunt the city.

[Temperans]

MMCJawa wrote:

I shamelessly stole this the initial idea for this from from another poster, so my apologies on forgetting who said this.

Effectively, there were originally major Drow cities. But the timey-whimey antics of the adventuring group involved in the events of Return of the Runelords created ripples in time, one of which resulted in the subterranean elves never completely falling to darkness. This basically led to Drow never being created, rather the elves that stayed underground became the Cavern Elves, which didn't exist in the old timeline. The Cavern Elves weren't nearly as ruthless as the Drow however, which allowed the Serpentfolk to hold onto or reclaim their old cities.

The Serpentfolk are terrified of Zirnakayin, because it exists as a time anomaly, the abandoned ruins of a city that shouldn't exist. Time doesn't work correctly there, and things from the primeval past and the distant future haunt the city.

Ooh this is really good, nice use of the butterfly effect.

[Kekkres]

so, and this is actually hilarious timing I just finished my Mummies mask campaign a couple of weeks ago as my last ongoing pf1 game, and in it, one of my players was a drow swashbuckler named Merriander whos mission statement was to find a way to wipe out the drow people on a quest born of pure spite and so in our last session knowing what was going on i gave him an artifact that was an ancient superweapon of hakoteps that would allow him to wipe the drow from every one of their cities and wipe them out systematically, and in the intermeaning years from mummies mask to modern pf2 serpentfolk have taken advantage of the power vaccume to establish themselves as a major power in the darklands

[Dhaise]

I suspect that in my campaign there will be some sort of Black Swan event which will table the Drow and hint at something _different_ to worry about. I'm leaning hard into a 'forget everything you think you know about down below'

[Albatoonoe]

I had a weird thing that I've been tossing around as a way to reintroduce a lot of D&D staples that weren't OGL. It centered around the Illithids coming from the end of time where the universe has stagnated. This "End of Time" would house beholders, grells, and others.

I suppose drow could fit right in as the dark future elves.

[Deriven Firelion]

I will wait and see what James Jacobs comes up for a new type of dark elf in the world. If he does not, maybe I will steal the Tiste Andii from Malazan into Golarion. I'll create my own Tiste Andii type of ancestry and stick it in the world as an option. Anomander Rake is cool.

[Ravingdork]

Kekkres wrote:

...one of my players was a drow swashbuckler named Merriander whos mission statement was to find a way to wipe out the drow people on a quest born of pure spite...

That must have been one hell of a chip on his shoulder!

[Perpdepog]

Pathfinder's drow were the first ones I really knew, and I always thought they were cool, if not exactly central to stories I was working with, so I'll likely be keeping them around. Should it come to it and my party winds up in the Darklands, either in a published adventure or in a homebrew campaign, I'm thinking of reframing the drow as much smaller and less numerous, but much more competent at what they do, i.e, muderating Darklands monsters.
I like the idea of drow borrowing a bit from their Starfinder incarnation as well, so a bit less focus on express demon worship, though they'll do that as well, and more a focus on ruthless pragmatism, being a highly mercenary kind of culture, assuming you can pay what they ask. Them still being at least nominally beholden to demon lords will complicate that though, as will the ever-present political backstabbery which may be frowned upon against other drow, but is totally fine when directed at their catspaws.

I'm also thinking that the identity of "drow" will be much more cultural than anything to do with mutations brought on from being next to radiation sources or being a certain level of evil or what have you.

[NECR0G1ANT]

I may include them as a PC option later on in my Blood Lords campaign. The elf would be from the undead city of Shraen.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Given some of the nature of the previous thread and discussion, could we please get a renaming of the thread topic?

'Boogaloo'

[OceanshieldwolPF 2.5]

Given my home campaign is currently set in Greyhawk and has embarked on an epic U/A/G/D/Q (Saltmarsh/Slavers/Gaints/Drow) campaign I’ll stick with the Drow.

If I were to run a Golarion campaign I’d keep the drow as is, though possibly swap out Zirnakaynin for Erelhei-Cinlu. Shraen can definitely stay.

And the drow will definitely be purveyors of awesome and fine sensual bodices, boots, whips, chains, necklets, gauntlets, shouderpads, ridiculous combat heels and scaled corsets for the discerning folk of any gender. On both sides of the Gap.

[Vatras]

My campaign was written by myself and won't change, no matter what the canon is :)
I stole for the second part the title "Rise of the Drow", but the story is completely different. I had epic levels in mind for this, and wanted to touch on several points in Golarions history, like the Earthfall, the surrounding events and how they reach into the present.
If my players act as expected (...they rarely do...), the drow will be freed from Rovagug's dream, eventually redeeming the remnants of their race.

Anyway, I would not mind seeing something new instead of the nth rehash of old adventure modules. I have really no idea how often WotC created reincarnations of Ravenloft or the Temple of Elemental Evil. They produce practically nothing new, which is a pity, as they once had pretty good adventures.

[no good scallywag]

The Drow finally took up the offer to abandon the world of Golarion!

[The Raven Black]

no good scallywag wrote:

The Drow finally took up the offer to abandon the world of Golarion!

They finally found someone gullible enough to buy it wholesale.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

The Raven Black wrote:

no good scallywag wrote:

The Drow finally took up the offer to abandon the world of Golarion!

They finally found someone gullible enough to buy it wholesale.

...and then bought a fixer-upper on Apostae in the long-run of 'flipping it'.

[Ched Greyfell]

My friends and I are gearing up to play Second Darkness. We've had these plans since before the Remaster announcement. It's part of a huge Sekret Projekt that will involve YouTube, Warhammer 40k, live play podcasts for RPGs, and such.
We have no plans to change the drow in our games. Even tho we are excited about the Remaster and plan to embrace it. We will still use any and all creatures we like from books we have purchased up to this point.

But to the spirit of the thread, I think having a bunch of underground elves who fleshwarped each other into demon worshipping weirdos sounds about right. Every campaign needs that.

[Perpdepog]

OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

Given my home campaign is currently set in Greyhawk and has embarked on an epic U/A/G/D/Q (Saltmarsh/Slavers/Gaints/Drow) campaign I’ll stick with the Drow.

If I were to run a Golarion campaign I’d keep the drow as is, though possibly swap out Zirnakaynin for Erelhei-Cinlu. Shraen can definitely stay.

And the drow will definitely be purveyors of awesome and fine sensual bodices, boots, whips, chains, necklets, gauntlets, shouderpads, ridiculous combat heels and scaled corsets for the discerning folk of any gender. On both sides of the Gap.

They can sell all their surplus to the Kuthite church; those guys are always down for a good time that involves whips, chains, and corsets.

[Nicolas Paradise]

So I have some questions as I only skimmed a few pages of the first thread and only just today listened to the VOD of the paizocon panel while working in a machine shop.

As of now in Canon do Drow still exist(potentially under a new name due to ogl) or is this a true retcon and they never existed?

Regardless of the answer to the above how does that affect Second Darkness.

Similarly how does this affect Celwynvian and the entire history of the eleves post Earthfall since the elves have been battling the drow in Celwynvian since their return. Were they instead battling Serpertfolk?

As for what I will do with Drow myself? I have never used them in my pathfinder games but I have had 3 Drow PC's over the years. If those pc's ever get an encore I would just pretend they are odd one-off elves depending on what their actual canon staus is.

[James Jacobs]

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

So I have some questions as I only skimmed a few pages of the first thread and only just today listened to the VOD of the paizocon panel while working in a machine shop.

As of now in Canon do Drow still exist(potentially under a new name due to ogl) or is this a true retcon and they never existed?

Regardless of the answer to the above how does that affect Second Darkness.

Similarly how does this affect Celwynvian and the entire history of the eleves post Earthfall since the elves have been battling the drow in Celwynvian since their return. Were they instead battling Serpertfolk?

Going forward, we won't be doing drow stories, and their presence in the Darklands will be replaced by serpentfolk. If/when we do a bigger Darklands story set in Sekaminia, builds on Celwynvian or Second Darkness, or the like, that'll be a point where we'll get into further details on those topics. We will need to figure out how to bring the events of Second Darkness forward at some point if we want to do anything that builds on those story threads, but we haven't made those specific decisions yet. We've just given ourselves the non-OGL tools we'll need to do so.

Please continue to talk in this thread about how you're going to incorperate this change into your games, or if you're choosing to keep drow in your games. That's a fun way for everyone to brainstorm their own table's canon on this topic. This should not become a thread where arguments about our decision are discussed.

[PossibleCabbage]

When you're out in Sekaminia having the time of your life with a bunch of friends. The Drow are all just out of frame, laughing too.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

From what I've heard of the adventure path, Second Darkness ends With the world spinning on completely oblivious that it was even in danger and mostly oblivious still that Drow even exist.

So while it is up to each individual table whether or not Drow exist in their games, it should be easy to replace Drow with... Anything, really. Fleshwarped cavern elf demon cults sounds pretty awesome, though.

[Jonathan Morgantini]

Removed a harassing post

[James Jacobs]

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

From what I've heard of the adventure path, Second Darkness ends With the world spinning on completely oblivious that it was even in danger and mostly oblivious still that Drow even exist.

So while it is up to each individual table whether or not Drow exist in their games, it should be easy to replace Drow with... Anything, really. Fleshwarped cavern elf demon cults sounds pretty awesome, though.

This is correct. A bit more context in the spoiler below, since this information is important for folks to keep in mind.

Spoiler:

At the time, we'd done nothing at all with drow, and with Second Darkness (our third Pathfinder Adventure Path ever) we were excited to bring in a classic D&D villain from the OGL and present them more as villains than anything else, and part of that was in-world lore that, at the time, drow were regarded as mytholigical. So at the same point we were introducing Golarion's heroes (and the PCs) to our version of drow for the first time, we were introducing our customers in the real world to Pathfinder's drow for the first time.

It's important, contextually, to note that all of this happened when we were mostly still known for doing official D&D stuff with the magazines, and we were still very much in the "Let's make sure our established customers are aware that we're still doing the fantasy RPG content we've spent the last several years proving to them that we can do" and were sticking with close D&D analogs.

Then, in the middle of Second Darkness's creation and development and editing, we found out that Wizards of the Coast was moving on with 4th edition D&D, and that this version of the game wouldn't be open content, and that if we wanted to keep publishing adventures we'd need to make our own version of the d20 fantasy game so that we'd have rules in print to make content for. The Pathfinder RPG came out about a year after the first volume of Second Darkness as a result.

SO: Yes, while the players (and thus the Player Characters) of Second Darkness know all about that stuff, the world at large doesn't, really, since we assume the PCs succeed and save the world without many folks ever knowing that the world was in peril in the first place. Which does make the in-world canon adjustments potentially a little more logical, and opens up some great opportunities for GMs to brainstorm things like exactly what folks are doing in this thread. :-)

[PossibleCabbage]

Would another trip to the Darklands necessarily involve following up on Second Darkness? It seems like a lot of APs that have plots that are roughly "the PCs saved the world, no one knows about it" which are ones that are probably fine to just leave standing on their own. Like the extreme example of this is Secret Aeons as it also underlines "no one *should* know what the PCs did" so if we did another Mythos AP, it might just be better to just not comment on how the Inmost Blot is doing. Since "you fixed it, it's still fixed" might be the thing that people who did the adventure would be happiest to see.

I mean, if we're going back to the Darklands for something big, I really want to go to Orv so we can go sailing on the Sightless Sea, and there are lots of Snakefolk stories left in Sekamina.

[Evan Tarlton]

This makes sense. The meteor off of Riddleport and the fallout (especially for a certain crime lord) are the only public aspects. Anything else about it can be altered.

For example, a targeted meteorite strike could wreak havoc on the surface, thereby facilitating a Sekmin invasion. Perhaps the whole thing in Celwynvian started when the Ayindelar had a run-in with Sekmin poking around in Nar-Voth. They went to Kyonin, and it steadily escalated. The Winter Council would have existed as more "traditionalist" (read isolationist) elves, and their behind the scenes power struggles with the crown would have provided the perfect wedge for the Sekmin to exploit. Sekmin infiltrators would stoke the flame of isolationism, ensuring that the people who knew about their efforts kept to themselves. They would have been exposed during the events of the AP, thus leading to the Winter Council's disbanding, giving Telandia free reign to bolster ties with the rest of Golarion (especially with those elves who didn't leave before Earthfall).

[Xathos of Varisia]

MMCJawa wrote:

I shamelessly stole this the initial idea for this from from another poster, so my apologies on forgetting who said this.

Effectively, there were originally major Drow cities. But the timey-whimey antics of the adventuring group involved in the events of Return of the Runelords created ripples in time, one of which resulted in the subterranean elves never completely falling to darkness. This basically led to Drow never being created, rather the elves that stayed underground became the Cavern Elves, which didn't exist in the old timeline. The Cavern Elves weren't nearly as ruthless as the Drow however, which allowed the Serpentfolk to hold onto or reclaim their old cities.

The Serpentfolk are terrified of Zirnakayin, because it exists as a time anomaly, the abandoned ruins of a city that shouldn't exist. Time doesn't work correctly there, and things from the primeval past and the distant future haunt the city.

This for the win! Excellent way to deal with the situation and one that can work very well for adjustments coming in the Remaster.

Paizo, Jump on this!

[David knott 242]

In my campaign, a major Melnibonean NPC found his way to Golarion and was quickly captured by drow and held by them for a couple of centuries.

Needless to say, nothing from that campaign will ever be published, for obvious reasons.

[James Jacobs]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Would another trip to the Darklands necessarily involve following up on Second Darkness? It seems like a lot of APs that have plots that are roughly "the PCs saved the world, no one knows about it" which are ones that are probably fine to just leave standing on their own. Like the extreme example of this is Secret Aeons as it also underlines "no one *should* know what the PCs did" so if we did another Mythos AP, it might just be better to just not comment on how the Inmost Blot is doing. Since "you fixed it, it's still fixed" might be the thing that people who did the adventure would be happiest to see.

I mean, if we're going back to the Darklands for something big, I really want to go to Orv so we can go sailing on the Sightless Sea, and there are lots of Snakefolk stories left in Sekamina.

Not at all. The Darklands is HUGE, and there are plenty of places to go and stories to tell in there that don't follow up on Second Darkness or drow. The "Sky King's Tomb" adventure path does precisely this; it'll be out very soon, so check it out for an example.

[keftiu]

Elves are people like any other, and a sojourn through lands ‘near’ Rovagug’s prison may well have led some astray; there’s certainly something causing all those Fleshwarps down below, and the region’s many dangers pushed certain groups to seek out planar patrons like Elementals, Fiends, and Proteans. Shraen is a monument to how the drive to survive can lead them down cruel paths, but is no more damning of the Ancestry than Geb’s existence is for Humans. Zirnakaynin is a mystery to all, but some wonder about the architectural similarities between it and Nagisa (the demon-haunted ruin the red-eyed Alijae elves of the surface are stewards of), and I might even say there’s traces of potent temporal magic around it all.

I’m quite looking forward to the Ayindilar and Sekmin both :)

[Kobold Catgirl]

I assume we're losing derro, too, so a niche of "people who went too close to Rovagug's prison and were turned into murderous Reaver-esque monsters" may be open.

[PossibleCabbage]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Given some of the nature of the previous thread and discussion, could we please get a renaming of the thread topic?

'Boogaloo'

So the original response was deleted by a mod, but I don't want to leave this unresponded to.

I was referring specifically to "Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo" the 1984 breakdancing movie that has entered the lexicon as "a weird sequel" both because of the title and also since the original "Breakin'" was also released in 1984 and wasn't particularly well-reviewed or popular. But it's still a movie people ought to watch, because breakdancing is cool, it has a cast that actually looks like "people in the inner city in 1984" should, and the "Dancing on the Ceiling" scene is iconic (and uses the same rotating room set as "Nightmare on Elm Street.")

I understand that bad people have taken the word and used it, but I would want to note that they never have "Electric" in it, which I think is a good part of "meaning a strange, immediate sequel" and not the other thing. Like in DC Comics what gives the Green Lantern their powers is a "Power Ring" charged by a Power Lantern which emits the right kind of light as the Green Lantern's powers are light themed. This is often called a "Green Power Ring" and "Green Power Lantern" as there are other similar rings/lanterns for the other colors in the visible spectrum (ROYGBIV). At some point Green Lantern Kyle Rayner gets a power lantern that combines all the colors of the spectrum into one. As you probably know from optics, if you combine all the colors of light you get white light. So you have to be careful about how you talk about the Power Lantern that the White Lantern gets, since "White Power Ring" is a bad look. But that's probably not a good reason to simply avoid telling this story.

But if a Mod wants to change it, go ahead. But people should watch Breakin' 2- it's a good time.

[Evan Tarlton]

I distinctly remember Dero not being OGL, which is one of the reasons why Paizo started spelling it that way and not derro as the OGL does. That said, I can't seem to find the original source. Am I mistaken?

[Kobold Catgirl]

I'm pretty sure the name is changed, but the creature flavor is not, and that's kind of the issue. It might still be too connected.

Anyways, yeah, for my money, "boogaloo" is not suddenly a problematic word because of some pathetic meme-based hate group that will probably be forgotten in another three years as the members bleed into other hate organizations. "Boogaloo" has many other meanings that will outlast them.

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Dero as a concept does not originate with D&D. It means "DEtrimental RObot" and is from fairly modern occultism. They are inhuman subterranean sadists tormenting all of humanity.

[OceanshieldwolPF 2.5]

Jonathan Morgantini wrote:

Removed a harassing post

I was harassing the hate group, not any posters here. But sure, wotevs.

I’ll never forget “Bash the Hateful”, the best Necromancer avatar I ever saw running around shirtless in the old Guild Wars servers.

[Evan Tarlton]

Lurker in Insomnia wrote:

Dero as a concept does not originate with D&D. It means "DEtrimental RObot" and is from fairly modern occultism. They are inhuman subterranean sadists tormenting all of humanity.

Ah. Thank you!

[Lurker in Insomnia]

Finally, my weird obsession with strange trivia pays off!

[MMCJawa]

Kobold Catgirl wrote:

I assume we're losing derro, too, so a niche of "people who went too close to Rovagug's prison and were turned into murderous Reaver-esque monsters" may be open.

The Dero (the real spelling) are from real world occult lore. I don't think they are terribly different from the current Pathfinder version, since both creatures are malevolent diminutive subterranean creatures. As long as you use the Dero spelling you should be fine.

[Perpdepog]

I've also heard the deros listed along with other Darklands baddies in a few places, some of the Paizocon streams that are now on YouTube I believe, and I wanna say James Jacobs mentioned them in a list of bad guys too?