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Personally I'd rather not see the specializations get too heavy.
"too" heavy is always hard to define as it definitely depends on people (and builds in this case). But I still hope they'll be feats to improve aspects of the Alchemist that have hardly been glanced at currently.
The Mutagenist has nearly no feat: Revivifying Mutagen and one feat per Mutagen but you will hardly specialize yourself on all of them. Toxicologist only has the choice between 5 feats (and most Poison-based feats are based on you using poison but not your allies, which is a very important part of being a Toxicologist/Alchemist). Even the Chirurgeon has only 6 feats that are more or less related to healing Elixirs (without even addressing the fact that many of them are quite bad). The only specialty with a proper support is the Bomber.So I hope there will be a higher level of specialization but by always making sure that Alchemical Items are perfectly usable without having the specialization (unlike Bomber as of now which is too weak if you don't buy a lot of feats). A specialization that increases usability and options but don't increase efficiency... Something hard to achieve.
Hmm.
Maybe they can calculate their Bulk as a function of INT than ST?
Okay I like this. A really cool, flavorful suggestion!
Personally I'd rather not see the specializations get too heavy."too" heavy is always hard to define as it definitely depends on people (and builds in this case). But I still hope they'll be feats to improve aspects of the Alchemist that have hardly been glanced at currently.
The Mutagenist has nearly no feat: Revivifying Mutagen and one feat per Mutagen but you will hardly specialize yourself on all of them. Toxicologist only has the choice between 5 feats (and most Poison-based feats are based on you using poison but not your allies, which is a very important part of being a Toxicologist/Alchemist). Even the Chirurgeon has only 6 feats that are more or less related to healing Elixirs (without even addressing the fact that many of them are quite bad). The only specialty with a proper support is the Bomber.So I hope there will be a higher level of specialization but by always making sure that Alchemical Items are perfectly usable without having the specialization (unlike Bomber as of now which is too weak if you don't buy a lot of feats). A specialization that increases usability and options but don't increase efficiency... Something hard to achieve.
Oh yeah, more Mutagenist feats would be cool! Maybe more stuff like Revivifying Mutagen (https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=97) that let you end a mutagen early in exchange for an effect. Drakeheart Mutagen already does this with its speed boost, but you could do this with a one time attack bonus, AC bonus, saving throw bonus, damage bonus, breath weapon, quickened, flash of dazzling light, skill bonus, etc.
There was also the Master Chymimst prestige class in PF1 (https://aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Master%20Chymist) that gains a mutated form from their repeated use of mutagens. This mutated form can gain various abilities, like darkvision, a larger size, and even an entirely different personality.
PF1 also had alchemy feats based around altering one's own body. These would do stuff like help you avoid critical hits (your organs have shifted around) and gain new abilities. This might be more for the Chirugeon than the Mutagenist though.
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I had a thought about something that could be added to Mutagenist Alchemists.
So, as we are all aware, the drawbacks on Mutagens, to put it mildly, suck. It's like "Hey, what if they could Rage, but we make it much worse?" (Okay, that's sort of just Bestial Mutagen.)
So, give them (that is Mutagenist Alchemists) this ability.
Suppress Drawback - one action, concentrate
Temporarily suppress the drawback of your active mutagen. This lasts until the start of your next turn. You can do this a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1).
As the jack of trade / master of none Alchemist will be tricky to fix.
A common suggestion of given them better to-hit proficiency, akin to a full martial - led me to seeing one way this could backfire due to the wide range of abilities the class has.
Consider an Alchemist with the Gunslinger dedication, or even just 'all martial weapons'.
Take that on Chirurgeon, and get Life Shot. You can now spam out more heals than any cleric - at sniper range, with good accuracy because we (in this hypothetical) boosted their accuracy in the remaster.
We've just made Ana from Overwatch - a hitscan healer that can outheal all the others. And by boosting accuracy we put her in the hands of the nerdy teenager with 7-Up boosted reflexes and a 4080 GPU running 160fps.
You could then also get Healing Bomb at level 4 - which you can do even now to good effect. The difference is that Healing Bomb uses 'quick alchemy' so it rapidly burns out your number of heals.
This character will still have the feats left over to get Ward Medic and Rapid Recovery to be the master of out of combat healing, and likely have enough left over to put other ammo into that gun and be decent sniper - not on par with a gunslinger, but able to compete against the caster spamming electric arc... while out healing any other healer.
***************
And that super-specific example highlights the general problem. Because alchemist is "ok to good" at everything - anywhere you tweak the dial for a fix can push something unexpected into 'over powered expert' territory.
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I had a thought about something that could be added to Mutagenist Alchemists.
So, as we are all aware, the drawbacks on Mutagens, to put it mildly, suck. It's like "Hey, what if they could Rage, but we make it much worse?" (Okay, that's sort of just Bestial Mutagen.)
So, give them (that is Mutagenist Alchemists) this ability.
Suppress Drawback - one action, concentrate
Temporarily suppress the drawback of your active mutagen. This lasts until the start of your next turn. You can do this a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1).
I've considered ignoring drawbacks as a buff for self use of mutagens. The problem is drawbacks are thematically pretty appropriate to the Mr. Hyde fantasy. I think the trick is in changing the drawbacks themselves. My suggestion is just taking the existing drawbacks and swapping them around so a combat mutagen only has mental drawbacks and vice versa, which is basically how PF1 worked. The good news is most of the mutagens this impacts are in core so will already be getting a reprint.
To make the mutagens work better for the alchemist themselves, you could give them the option to increase the penalty to increase the bonus. It would feel thematically very appropriate, like the Feral Mutagen feat, but if you also made the above change people might actually use it.
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There's also the Additive trait that can be added to Mutagens or Poisons to give them additional effects (or less drawbacks). As of now, this trait only exists for Bombs and Elixirs of Life.
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Would it break too much to give Alchemist's Quick Draw with their research field items? I've always found it sad that Chirurgeons take 3 actions to do the equivalent of a 2 action Heal.
I've also been thinking Combine Elixirs should be a class feature rather than a feat tied to Quick Alchemy. It would set Alchemist's infused items apart from regular items you can find/buy. I have some further tweaks to it but it's a very rough idea.
Combine Concoctions Level 3
Additive 1
As you deepen your alchemical knowledge, you have discovered an astounding breakthrough that allows you to produce wondrous effects. Due to their During your daily preparations, you can spend 2 batches of Infused Reagents to combine the effects of 2 different items. Their combined item level can be no higher than your Advanced Alchemy level - 1. Your research field provides further benefits to these items.Bomber: In your studies to unlock the potent power of explosions, you've learned how to distill the power of your bombs into potent effects. However due to the unstable construction of these bombs, they are harder to aim. Combine the effects of 2 bombs. When thrown these bombs require 2 actions but rather than targeting AC, they force a reflex save in a 10ft burst. On a fail, creatures in the area are exposed to the effects of both bombs. If any of the bombs used in the creation require a save use the saving throw instead of reflex.
Chirurgeon: In your studies to craft the perfect panacea, you've learned how to produce minor healing effects. Your non-damaging combined concoctions gain the healing tag and restores 1d4 Hit Points. This healing increases by 1 dice at 6th, 12th, and 18th level.
Mutagenist: In your studies to push your body to the extreme, you've learned how to compound the effects of your mutagens into adrenaline shots. Combine the effects of two mutagen. When consumed you suffer the greater drawback of the two combined mutagen but gain the benefits of both for 3 rounds. When the effect has ended you become Sickened 1 as your body suffers the shock of the effect
Toxicologist: In your studies craft the most potent poison, you've learned how to interlace your poisons into your concoctions. When you combine a poison with a bomb, creatures hit by the splash damage are exposed to the poison and must make a save against its original DC. When you combine a poison with an Elixir, you make the creature who consumes it both venomous and poisonous. On the first hit from or against the consumer, the creature is exposed to the poison and must make a save against the DC.
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Honestly I'd rather just have a class feature that lets you combine the interact to draw with the interact to activate for any alchemical items.
There's also the Additive trait that can be added to Mutagens or Poisons to give them additional effects (or less drawbacks). As of now, this trait only exists for Bombs and Elixirs of Life.
I'm still hoping for something like a hallucinogenic poison Additive that makes poisons deal mental damage, have a Will save and be affected by mental immunity instead of poison immunity.
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For the most part, I quite enjoy the Alchemist class as it is. I've played a Mutagenist to 9th and a Bomber to 11th, and they've been so much fun to play and from my experience extremely effective. I'm starting up a 1st level Bomber in Outlaws of Alkenstar in just over a week and I'm really, really looking forward to it.
One of the major reasons I don't see them doing a massive overhaul, at least on the items side, is Treasure Vault. Treasure Vault only just came out, and it follows a lot of the Alchemical Item design principles first started with CRB.
Some tweaks I could see them doing:
1) I'm honestly not sure how, without gutting the class and starting over, you could have at-will effects starting at 1st level. What I could see is moving Perpetual Infusions from 7th level to 3rd. It would add consistency: each time you reach a general Bombs/Mutagens milestone, you get to go Perpetual Infusions with items from the previous milestone.
2) While I haven't reached 13th level yet, I will say that having played multiple "-1" levels hasn't really affected my gameplay experience much. So I'm sure I'd be fine with the current Proficiency cap. However, as Warpriest is now getting Master Proficiency (if only with their Deity Favored Weapon and at 19th level) I can definitely see Paizo doing the same for Alchemists. I don't know if they'll move to 5th/13th like other Martials though. Maybe 15th, following the two-level delay at 7th? Maybe 17th when they get Master Class DC? I dunno.
2a) If Alchemists do get Master Weapon Proficiency, could they please, please with sugar on top get Greater Weapon Specialization? I mean, unless they rewrite Major Bestial Mutagen my Mutagenist will be getting it anyways at 17th, but I'd rather see all the Alchemists get it.
3) I could see them doing a small upwards tweak to the number of Batches of Infused Reagents a day. Not sure how much, but I could see it.
4) On my wish list: Make Alchemical Savant a Class Feature. It's got such great flavour but I can't see anyone ever actually taking it. If you're not grabbing one (or both) of the Bomb Feats you'd be wanting Alchemical Familiar (for the extra Batch per day if nothing else.)
5) Make Revivifying Mutagen a Class Feature. Being able to end a Mutagen at will is huge. All Alchemists should just be able to do this.
6) Make it clear that you can upgrade your Specialty Items to higher tier ones as you advance. Right now a solid argument can be made that you're stuck at Lesser items through until 5th.
7) Let Chirurgeons mix & match their Healing Elixirs after 5th like the other Research Fields can do with their specialties.
8) Rewrite Elixirs of Life so that they upgrade every 2nd level instead of every 4th (with the exception of 13th/15th).
9) Rework Alchemical Alacrity completely. As it is, it's borderline useless unless you're Quickened, and even then you probably don't want 3 Items in a single round.
10) Rewrite Double Brew to make it explicit that it works with Perpetual Infusions items. I've gotten into more arguments on that point...
I think that's all I've got for now.
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1) I'm honestly not sure how, without gutting the class and starting over, you could have at-will effects starting at 1st level. What I could see is moving Perpetual Infusions from 7th level to 3rd. It would add consistency: each time you reach a general Bombs/Mutagens milestone, you get to go Perpetual Infusions with items from the previous milestone.
I feel like they could add some mediocre level 0 items that Alchemists can just quick alchemy for free. Cantrip tier bombs and something like the generic poisons the poison weapon rogue feat gives you*
Though the rub there is that it's hard to come up with something appropriate for the Chirurgeon or Mutagenist there. But even just giving something like that out for free to every alchemist might help a bit.
I agree it would make a lot more sense and would be easier to come later... but that kinda feels bad because level 1 is the level you most wish you had an option like this.
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Honestly I'd rather just have a class feature that lets you combine the interact to draw with the interact to activate for any alchemical items.
This would be huge. Right now I feel like if I want to use injury poisons, the aforementioned Poison Weapon rogue feat feels almost mandatory... Alchemist could desperately use something like that in class (a normal alchemist needs four actions to use an injury poison, potentially five if they have to move into position or reload something along the way. Feels real bad).
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I feel like they could add some mediocre level 0 items that Alchemists can just quick alchemy for free. Cantrip tier bombs and something like the generic poisons the poison weapon rogue feat gives you*
I was really hoping for something like this in treasure vault. I joked about "Alchemical Marbles" that did no direct damage, only minor splash damage, all the way back in the PF2 playtest.
So yeah, I heartily agree that level 0 items that can be made with infused reagents but do not consume them (I call the ones I homebrewed "percolatives") is need to give alchemists a bit more of a feeling that they are always using their alchemy.
1) I'm honestly not sure how, without gutting the class and starting over, you could have at-will effects starting at 1st level.
I personally think that you could right away give Perpetual Infusions with an item of up to your level. Perpetual Infusions already have lots of limitations: You need to use Quick Alchemy to create them (so one action lost) and you have a limited choice of items. Other limitations could be added, like not using Additives nor your class DC. Also, Bombs are not really better than Greatswords, so having a Bomber bombing all day shouldn't imbalance the game.
9) Rework Alchemical Alacrity completely.
I'd also rework Double Brew. I'd just give a free action Quick Alchemy once per round at level 9 and as often as you want at level 15. The necessity to produce multiple items is puzzling, as if you always need Alchemical Items by 2.
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9) Rework Alchemical Alacrity completely.I'd also rework Double Brew. I'd just give a free action Quick Alchemy once per round at level 9 and as often as you want at level 15. The necessity to produce multiple items is puzzling, as if you always need Alchemical Items by 2.
I feel like it would be simple to fold a Quick Draw like action into Quick Alchemy starting at level 1 that lets you draw and use an alchemical item with the same action, increasing the number of items when Double Brew and Alchemical Alacrity come online.
Honestly I'd rather just have a class feature that lets you combine the interact to draw with the interact to activate for any alchemical items.
I don't expect such thing. I don't think that designers want that once this will allow the usage of 3 Elixirs of Life per turn. I don't think they want that an Alchemist could end a more efficient than a spellcaster specially for heal.
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Honestly I'd rather just have a class feature that lets you combine the interact to draw with the interact to activate for any alchemical items.I don't expect such thing. I don't think that designers want that once this will allow the usage of 3 Elixirs of Life per turn. I don't think they want that an Alchemist could end a more efficient than a spellcaster specially for heal.The sad part is, they still wouldn't be more efficient than a spellcaster healer. Even on levels where you get a new elixir formula, the healing from 2 elixirs is still slightly less than a 2-action heal, and that's before considering bonuses through feats and items to heal and, much more importantly, the question of range.
Of course you can make a large amount of elixirs at high level which has to be considered, but from an action efficiency perspective it would not exceed existing options in the majority of use cases.
You are missing many things. As we are speaking of Quick Alchemy at level 15 (for Alchemical Alacrity) you can also consider that Elixirs of Life are maxed out as a Chirurgeon. And you have a proper range if you add a Choker-Arm Mutagen (15-20ft). Also, Elixirs of Life go up to level 19 when Healing Font stops at level 17 (level 9 spells). So with this ability, you would outheal a Cleric 2 to 1 (261 vs 112.5 for a Heal 9 without feats). Definitely game breaking as I expect you to outheal most encounters.
Edit: I realize there were many propositions and I'm actually going against my own proposition of making Quick Alchemy a free action at level 15. So it looks like I can say it's too strong :D
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Honestly I'd rather just have a class feature that lets you combine the interact to draw with the interact to activate for any alchemical items.I don't expect such thing. I don't think that designers want that once this will allow the usage of 3 Elixirs of Life per turn. I don't think they want that an Alchemist could end a more efficient than a spellcaster specially for heal.The sad part is, they still wouldn't be more efficient than a spellcaster healer. Even on levels where you get a new elixir formula, the healing from 2 elixirs is still slightly less than a 2-action heal, and that's before considering bonuses through feats and items to heal and, much more importantly, the question of range.
Of course you can make a large amount of elixirs at high level which has to be considered, but from an action efficiency perspective it would not exceed existing options in the majority of use cases.
You are missing many things. As we are speaking of Quick Alchemy at level 15 (for Alchemical Alacrity) you can also consider that Elixirs of Life are maxed out as a Chirurgeon. And you have a proper range if you add a Choker-Arm Mutagen (15-20ft). Also, Elixirs of Life go up to level 19 when Healing Font stops at level 17 (level 9 spells). So with this ability, you would outheal a Cleric 2 to 1 (261 vs 112.5 for a Heal 9 without feats). Definitely game breaking as I expect you to outheal most encounters.
Edit: I realize there were many propositions and I'm actually going against my own proposition of making Quick Alchemy a free action at level 15. So it looks like I can say it's too strong :D
I guess we've come to the conclusion on why all Alchemist's don't get Quick Draw for their items....It's demoralizing and the only workaround I can think of for something like this would be to add a tag to Elixirs of Life to say you can only consume 2 in single round.
There has to be something that can be done to give them an action enhancer that won't swing them so wildly on the scale.
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Kind of random, but I like the idea of being able to apply runes to your alchemy tools. How cool would it be to *really* treasure your alchemical toolkit, eventually making something a novice alchemist would kill to get their hands on. Might add some weight to the fantasy of what you're doing as an alchemist.
I guess we've come to the conclusion on why all Alchemist's don't get Quick Draw for their items....It's demoralizing and the only workaround I can think of for something like this would be to add a tag to Elixirs of Life to say you can only consume 2 in single round.
There has to be something that can be done to give them an action enhancer that won't swing them so wildly on the scale.
I personally think the Chirurgeon is all over the place. Especially because the level 13 ability, supposed to be the pinnacle of the class, is extremely disappointing.
Also, healing should follow spellcaster's progression and not martial's (I assume the level 13 ability is at level 13 because Alchemist doesn't get Master with weapons). Having a weak healer during 12 levels and suddenly a much better healer is weird. The Chirurgeon should be a competent healer right off the bat and stay that way during all its progression. Which means an improvement of its healing abilities at level 1 and few improvements afterwards (as there are nearly no improvements to your healing ability as a caster besides the progression of spell ranks).|
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I guess we've come to the conclusion on why all Alchemist's don't get Quick Draw for their items....It's demoralizing and the only workaround I can think of for something like this would be to add a tag to Elixirs of Life to say you can only consume 2 in single round.
There has to be something that can be done to give them an action enhancer that won't swing them so wildly on the scale.
I personally think the Chirurgeon is all over the place. Especially because the level 13 ability, supposed to be the pinnacle of the class, is extremely disappointing.
Also, healing should follow spellcaster's progression and not martial's (I assume the level 13 ability is at level 13 because Alchemist doesn't get Master with weapons). Having a weak healer during 12 levels and suddenly a much better healer is weird. The Chirurgeon should be a competent healer right off the bat and stay that way during all its progression. Which means an improvement of its healing abilities at level 1 and few improvements afterwards (as there are nearly no improvements to your healing ability as a caster besides the progression of spell ranks).
This is exactly why I'd rather tie their healing abilities to the Medicine /Crafting skill. Let them play with that like the Forensic Investigator. The more I think about it, the more I want them to be able to Battle Medicine and administer an Elixir in one action.
Also a late class feature or feat like Contingency themed as a Time Release Capsule would be fun.
Most of the suggestions I've seen (and made myself) regarding the action economy are about quickdrawing prepared items, rather than Quick Alchemy. It encourages preparing items more with action efficiency rather than just resource efficiency. Resources don't always matter, but actions definitely do.
It does change the math but not the conclusion. You end up at 186 healing, against 112.5 for a Heal 9. Still significantly ahead (and the feats to boost Heal won't get you much higher). And as it doesn't cost much resources (1 reagent per round when you have 20 per day), you can do that much more often than the Cleric who will have at most 8 level 9 Heals per day.
As of now, it isn't hard to be an ok healer once at level 11+ with a Chirurgeon. The issue is that you can't really be one before...
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This is also comparing 3 actions within reach to 2 actions at range.
At high level, the Alchemist can get up to 15-20ft of range.
And three Lay on Hands is possible only once per encounter, asks for a bunch of Focus Point and (as of now) a level 18 feat if you want to do it more than once per day.I will point out that healing font stopping at 9th level spells is contentious, and many argue that both RAW and RAI it goes to 10th level.
It has been errataed. No class ability gives an extra level 10 spell but the level 20 feat.
Giving the quickdraw feat the Flourish trait solves the issue with abusing it.
I think it's vital for Alchemist to get that +1 action tied to either drawing or using an Alchemical item.
I agree. That's why I quite like the equivalent of Doctor's Visitation with Elixirs. One action to draw 2 (with a Valet Familiar), an action to move (if needed) and deliver and a second action to deliver. You can't give more than 2 Elixirs of Life per round, so it doesn't break anything, but at least you can be nearly assured to deliver 2 Elixirs of Life per round with the proper feats.
Let's not downplay the massive downsides of getting said reach, reduced both accuracy on an alchemist and damage, making you way worse in anything but healing.
The downsides can be entirely avoided by just going caster (Wizard or Witch Dedication) or Companions (Summoner or Beastmaster Dedication).
There's really no point in using weapons as a Chirurgeon.extra 5 feet at level 1 to 3 are nice but 5 or 10 more at level 11 and 17 are not that useful
size bloat in late game are pretty extreme
too many enemy are gargantuan
Size of enemies is irrelevant, the Choker-Arm Mutagen is there to cover a bigger area so you don't need to move to heal your allies.
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Let's not downplay the massive downsides of getting said reach, reduced both accuracy on an alchemist and damage, making you way worse in anything but healing.The downsides can be entirely avoided by just going caster (Wizard or Witch Dedication) or Companions (Summoner or Beastmaster Dedication).
There's really no point in using weapons as a Chirurgeon.Size of enemies is irrelevant, the Choker-Arm Mutagen is there to cover a bigger area so you don't need to move to heal your allies.extra 5 feet at level 1 to 3 are nice but 5 or 10 more at level 11 and 17 are not that useful
size bloat in late game are pretty extreme
too many enemy are gargantuan
Relying on a specific mutagen and an archetype to be baseline functional both feel bad. It’s already bad enough a bomber needs Quicksilver to reliably hit. The Chirurgeon shouldn’t be stuck being a Monty Python character to stay a competitive healer. Also no other healer has to sacrifice their damage capability to heal.
We need to focus on more item agnostic improvements that increase playability within the class itself and makes each path unique. That or just eliminate the subclasses completely and just let the player pick what items they can make more of at every odd level.
Edit: Now that I think more about it, it might just be easier to go the Fighter route and have no subclasses. Let players pick their 2 Field Discovery items at odd levels like casters getting new spells and then just base the feats around modifying existing items, improving their effects, or altering them in unique ways.
While there are definitely some baseline improvements to the chassis I'd like to see, dismissing items out of hand seems off base given the nature of the class. It's like saying sorcerers suck if you never cast spells.
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While there are definitely some baseline improvements to the chassis I'd like to see, dismissing items out of hand seems off base given the nature of the class. It's like saying sorcerers suck if you never cast spells.
I wasn't dismissing items completely, just saying Alchemists shouldn't need specific items to be functional. It just feels weird that a Chirurgeon needs noodle arms at all times to be a good healer.
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Alchemist needing alchemical items to be good is good.
Alchemist needing specific items because anything else is bad is bad.
Alchemist needing specific items and specific dedications is really bad.
Alchemist needing specific items, specific dedications, and specific feats is horrible.
Right now alchemist is at the bottom and is horrible. Just adding better items does not fix the issue. Just adding more archetypes does not fix the issue. Just fixing feats does not fix the issue. So I will agree that Alchemist should not have had subclasses, instead those subclasses should had been class archetypes made specifically to support that sort of playstyle.
This exactly what I meant. I want the Alchemist to use items and be able to draw out their full potential. Right now Bombs are the only items with full support. Give us a feat to temporarily suppress a mutagen’s drawback with a craft check. Give us a flourish action feat to draw and drink or feed someone an elixir. Bring back stuff like poison conversion, poison skin, and celestial poisons as feats so those items stay somewhat relevant. Changes like these would let them avoid having to publish new items to fill unforeseen weaknesses in the class.
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I came up with a whole slew of feats and features last night, trying to lean into the Alchemist straddling the line between martial and caster. I'm not 100% on what level the feats should land but I think the features make sense.
Transmute Reagents lets you essentially refocus your reagent pool to really take advantage of Quick Alchemy.
Polypurpose Panacea turns everyone into pseudo bombers and fixes some of the harsher action economy issues for healing focused Alchemists. (Quick Bomber would stay a feat for people who want to focus on bombs)
Signature Items roughly follows Signature Spell progression and reduces Quick Alchemy costs.
Alchemical Discoveries let you innovate your class daily produce unique effects.
Transmute Reagents Level 1
Activate 10 minutes (Interact)
You use your alchemical knowledge to scavenge through readily available natural or unnatural resources to produce new reagents in your temporary lab. As a 10-minute activity, attempt a Crafting check that has a standard DC for your level. After your lab work you must return to your notes to find new avenues of innovation and you can't use Transmute Reagents for 1 hour.
Critical Success: A sudden flash of brilliance takes hold and you've discovered a way to truly transmute matter. Add half your Intelligence Modifier of batches to your Infused Reagents, rounded down. Success: You've managed to have some minor inspiration. As Critical Success, except you add 1 batch to your Infused Reagents.
Failure: Your work has proven derivative and you have been left wanting for results, wasting the resources at hand.
Critical Failure: Desperation has made you sloppy and in your haste to test reagents, you have poisoned yourself. You take poison damage equal to your level.Polypurpose Panacea: (1 action) Level 1
Frequency once per round
Fortune favors the prepared and you have calculated for risks within a 99.9% margin in your daily preparations. You Interact to draw an Infused Item and use it with one action.Signature Items: Level 3
You have devoted your lifetime to the study of unlocking the potential of a select number of formulas. When your advanced alchemy level increases to 3, select 2 alchemical formulas to become Signature Items. You have learned how to dilute these formulas and retain their potency to create more. When using a batch of infused reagents to create your signature items using advanced alchemy, you create three items instead of two. In addition, you’ve learned how to cut corners with these items during Quick Alchemy. Reduce the cost of Quick Alchemy by 1 batch when crafting these items. At every odd level, select 2 new items to add to your list of Signature Items.Alchemical Discovery/ Level 9
Through extensive research in the field, you’ve discovered more than you’ve forgotten. When you make your daily preparations, you gain one Alchemist feat of 8th level or lower that you don’t already have. You can use that feat until your next daily preparations. You must meet all of the feat’s other prerequisites.Improved Discovery Level 15
Your extensive field experience has given you deeper insight into new scientific possibilities. When you use alchemical discovery, you can gain two alchemist feats instead of one. While the first feat must still be 8th level or lower, the second feat can be up to 14th level, and you can use the first feat to meet the prerequisites of the second feat. You must meet all of the feats’ prerequisites.
Slough Skin: (Reaction) Level x
Trigger: A creature hits you critically and you can see the attacker.
Requirements: You have an active mutagen.
At the last possible second, to avoid certain death, you bite a capsule hidden in your mouth to dissolve the mutagen coursing through your body and shed your skin to blunt the blow. Reduce the degree of success to a regular hit. Your active mutagen ends and you become Sickened 1 for 1 round.Eldritch Poisons: Additive 2 Free Action Level x
Frequency once per round
Trigger You use Quick Alchemy to craft an alchemical item that has the poison trait and is at least 2 levels lower than your advanced alchemy level.
You’ve discovered how to tap into the potential of the outer spheres and imbue its power into your poisons. You can spend 2 additional batches of reagents to enhance the power of your poisons and bypass the immunities of creatures affected by the poison.Blended Mutagen: Additive 2 Free Action level x
Prerequisites Extend Elixir
Frequency once per round
Trigger You use Quick Alchemy to craft an alchemical item that has the mutagen trait and is at least 2 levels lower than your advanced alchemy level.
You’ve discovered how to mix two mutagen into a single unstable concoction. You can spend 2 additional batches of infused reagents to add a second mutagen to the one you’re crafting. The second mutagen must also be at least 2 levels lower than your advanced alchemy level, and the combination mutagen is an alchemical item two levels higher than the higher of the two mutagens’ levels. The duration of the combined mutagen is the shorter of the two. When consumed, choose one of the mutagen to be active and the other to be dormant. With an interact action you can make a standard-level Crafting check to tweak the ratio and switch the states of the mutagens. On a critical failure you wretch up the concoction and become sickened 1 for 1 round.Time-Release Capsule: Additive 3, Processed Level x
Activate 10 minutes (Interact)
Trigger You use Quick Alchemy to craft an alchemical item that has the elixir trait and is at least 3 levels lower than your advanced alchemy level.
You’ve discovered how to prepare a special capsule containing a concentrated version of one elixir. You can spend 3 additional batches of infused reagents to enhance an elixir that is at least 3 levels lower than your advanced alchemy level. Calculating the correct dosage and digestion time, you set it to go off at the perfect moment. During the crafting, choose a trigger under which the elixir will be consumed, using the same restrictions as for the trigger of a Ready action. You can only ingest a single Time-Release Capsule at a time. Consuming another one or ingesting an Alchemical Elixir before the trigger is met dissolves the capsule harmlessly and negates its effect.Designer Poison Processed Level x
Activate 10 minutes (Interact)
You’ve learned how to trap the potency of poisons in any state during the distillation process. By spending 10 minutes, the alchemist can convert 1 dose of poison from its current type (contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury) to another type. For example, the alchemist can convert a dose of Small centipede poison (an injury poison) to an inhaled poison. In addition, they can modify the onset time to instant, 1 minute, 5 minutes, or 10 minutes.
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a close quarters melee chirurgeon with an offensive mutagen is much more threatening than throwing a cantrip or two.
That's not the fantasy I put behind the Chirurgeon Research Field, I was explaining how to make a healer out of it. Obviously, if you don't care much about healing (outside self healing), you can ignore the Choker-Arm Mutagen. But as of now, it's hard to handle the extremely short range of the Chirurgeon without it.
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a close quarters melee chirurgeon with an offensive mutagen is much more threatening than throwing a cantrip or two.That's not the fantasy I put behind the Chirurgeon Research Field, I was explaining how to make a healer out of it. Obviously, if you don't care much about healing (outside self healing), you can ignore the Choker-Arm Mutagen. But as of now, it's hard to handle the extremely short range of the Chirurgeon without it.
I think we need to focus on expanding their options for delivering elixirs that are unique to Alchemists. Right now anyone could replicate the Chirurgeon with enough gold. I’d rather they be able to do unique things with existing items. With action enhancers the Chokerarm Mutagen is a great option for Alchemists who want to focus on healing but it shouldn’t be the only option. A level 1 feat to enable distance elixir delivery would be great.
Blood-seeking Syringe Additive 0 Feat Level 1
2 actions
You’ve learned how to craft temporary simulacrum of harmless Bloodseekers and imbue them with the contents of a single elixir that you can deliver remotely. You interact to draw an infused Elixir or use Quick Alchemy to create an item with the Elixir trait and deliver it to a target within 30 feet.
An idea that came up when talking about Alchemical Ammo on the pathfinder-2e discord remaster sub-channel...
Alchemists should get something like the gunslinger's reload moves. But not on reload - rather on alchemical item activations. With a trait that prevents it from being used in the same turn by the same person as a gunslinger reload special.
Not something that cuts out an action cost. So not a combo with reload or with using. Rather special gimmicks to give different kinds of alchemists special tricks. Like feints, moving, defensive mods, buffs and other things. Like the gunslinger way reloads do.
It'd be a handy way to 'buff' alchemist in a limited space that can be easily tweaked to not overbuff them, while also adding more ways to make an individual character distinct (especially if picking one is not tied to your type of alchemist, if it's a different choice).
a close quarters melee chirurgeon with an offensive mutagen is much more threatening than throwing a cantrip or two.That's not the fantasy I put behind the Chirurgeon Research Field, I was explaining how to make a healer out of it. Obviously, if you don't care much about healing (outside self healing), you can ignore the Choker-Arm Mutagen. But as of now, it's hard to handle the extremely short range of the Chirurgeon without it.there's a tremendous difference between "i can only heal" and an actual adventurer that can be the primary healer but also not be terrible every time he doesn't have to heal.
If the solution to the actually real problems of the chirurgeon is to demolish all of his martial capabilities, then I'd say that this is NOT a solution.
I'm not saying the Chirurgeon is in a good spot. Just that if you want to play one that is quite close to a healer, you can hardly do without the Choker-Arm Mutagen. And there are builds to make it ok.
As of now, you can't make a melee Chirurgeon which is also the primary healer of the party. You have both handedness and action economy issues that makes it too weak to consider.
At range with Bombs it's slightly better as you solve the handedness issue. But it's still not incredible.
the action issue that we are discussing is the one that needs fixing, primarily with features that combine alchemical actions.
I fully agree with that. It's just that we shouldn't ignore the Choker-Arm Mutagen build in the process. Calibrating the Chirurgeon healing on a build that's not making much healing will end up with the full healer Chirurgeon being potentially too high in healing output.