We are about to start that campaign and I was looking for some tips.
I didn't know anything about the campaign, and I'd like not to receive any spoiler to best enjoy it.
here's the character i was working on:
Party will be composed by:
Champion ( don't know any detail yet )
Half Orc Thaumaturge ( amulet )
Hobgoblin Gunslinger ( sniper )
Half-Elf Ranger ( Precision dex build huntedshot/twintakedown + pet )
and me, the life Oracle.
Some of them would probably get battlemedicine and a focus spell to heal.
My questions are mostly:
There will be possibility to do downtime?
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For example, on the road from lvl 1 to lvl 20, there will be months/years to perform activities like retrain, earn income, shop ( there will be shops of a proper level? ), items hunt ( there will be the possibility to travel in order to find items which may not be available in the vaults? )
Would be useful to invest 3 skill feats in order to get a proper authomatic knowledge?
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In this 2e, using a generic lore skill with assurance is the only way to make it work properly because of the -2 DC on the check.
I assume there will be undeads, but mostly because of the previous question, I am not sure whether would be wise to invest 3 feats or not.
Would the absence of damaging AOE spells, be an issue in terms of difficulty?
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having 2 strong frontline + 1 pet and 2 excellent ranged DPS i think this could work, but I admit I had some bad experience without the proper AOE stuff.
Thank you all.
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HumbleGamer wrote: There will be possibility to do downtime?
There are some possibilities for the GM to provide downtime. Not years and months though. Maybe a couple of weeks? Even that is not a given and depends on your GM.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Would be useful to invest 3 skill feats in order to get a proper authomatic knowledge?
There are a lot of different creatures (and types) there, not undead only. I don't know how to weight all the probabilities for you. Much also depends on how your GM gives you information.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Would the absence of damaging AOE spells, be an issue in terms of difficulty?
When we play, melee PCs almost always intermix with enemies and go first before casters, so AoE are almost irrelevant anyway. Also it's a dungeon crawl, so 1 square corridors, rooms and a lot of turns everywhere, so another reason why placing AoEs is very hard. We finished the AP though. So I guess that wasn't an issue for difficulty.
Errenor wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: There will be possibility to do downtime?
There are some possibilities for the GM to provide downtime. Not years and months though. Maybe a couple of weeks? Even that is not a given and depends on your GM.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Would be useful to invest 3 skill feats in order to get a proper authomatic knowledge?
There are a lot of different creatures (and types) there, not undead only. I don't know how to weight all the probabilities for you. Much also depends on how your GM gives you information.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Would the absence of damaging AOE spells, be an issue in terms of difficulty?
When we play, melee PCs almost always intermix with enemies and go first before casters, so AoE are almost irrelevant anyway. Also it's a dungeon crawl, so 1 square corridors, rooms and a lot of turns everywhere, so another reason why placing AoEs is very hard. We finished the AP though. So I guess that wasn't an issue for difficulty. Thank you very much.
I guess I will reconsider the 3 skill feats ( maybe I could find something more useful than a free recall knowledge with undeads every round ).
HumbleGamer wrote: Errenor wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: There will be possibility to do downtime?
There are some possibilities for the GM to provide downtime. Not years and months though. Maybe a couple of weeks? Even that is not a given and depends on your GM.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Would be useful to invest 3 skill feats in order to get a proper authomatic knowledge?
There are a lot of different creatures (and types) there, not undead only. I don't know how to weight all the probabilities for you. Much also depends on how your GM gives you information.
HumbleGamer wrote:
Would the absence of damaging AOE spells, be an issue in terms of difficulty?
When we play, melee PCs almost always intermix with enemies and go first before casters, so AoE are almost irrelevant anyway. Also it's a dungeon crawl, so 1 square corridors, rooms and a lot of turns everywhere, so another reason why placing AoEs is very hard. We finished the AP though. So I guess that wasn't an issue for difficulty. Thank you very much.
I guess I will reconsider the 3 skill feats ( maybe I could find something more useful than a free recall knowledge with undeads every round ). I forgot to ask "What about the stores? Will the characters be able to look for specific items or will they be just limited to what they are going to drop?"
HumbleGamer wrote: I forgot to ask "What about the stores? Will the characters be able to look for specific items or will they be just limited to what they are going to drop?" There's Otari, there are stores in there and it would be accessible for most of the campaign (though interruptions are possible). Another opportunities are probable (that's as much as I can say without spoilers I guess).
But honestly, so much depends on your GM that I have to give only very vague answers. As is with specific items: base rules allow to get a lot of items, also Absalom is rather close. But your GM could decide that Otari is still a very small town (which it is), so I don't know.
Also, there's a player's guide for the AP. It is considered spoiler-free and is written specifically for players. Has your GM given/allowed it to you?
It's there: https://downloads.paizo.com/AbominationVaults_PlayersGuide.pdf
Gonna definitely ask ( but I think it's ok ).
Again, thank you very much Errenor!
Gonna resume my thread for some new questions:
1) Given the party composition and the campaign, do you think a healer is mandatory or the frontline might be strong enough to resist ( our ranger is also going to take witch dedication to get lesson of life )?
2) Are there some good reactions and single actions for spellcasters?
Being a CHA based spellcaster I was thinking about intimidate, though it might not really fit the character.
The most interesting dedication I found is the bellflower tiller one, which allows some group benefits as well as the possibility to aid without preparing the action.
About aid, are there specific rules?
What should a spellcaster do in order to help with a melee strike? and a ranged strike? Describing to cast a spell to create an opening would be ok? ( we used aid really few times because lack of actions or better reactions, so our group is not really used to it ).
3) Apart from p1 and p2, here's the current build. I am looking for some alternatives to the bellflower tiller ( I like it, but i am open to alternatives and suggestions ). Medicine would be the primary skill, I haven't decided the rest ( they are currently expert in both surv and stealth for the tiller, but I can easily swap them ).
tldr: i am currently looking for some lvl 6,8,10,14 class feats ( archetype/dedications ) to get ( by lvl 6 stats are 8,16,16,10,16,19 ).
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1) I think a healer is almost mandatory in PF2 in general (or at least several semi-healers). But you are already a Life Oracle with Medicine, so it looks already good enough (at least with a couple Medicine feats).
Yes, in AV healing would be useful, hard (and numerous) battles are expected.
2) There's also Bon Mot. Though Divine casting wouldn't benefit much from it probably? Thaumaturge maybe? Don't know the class well. Fear is more universal and you can get rid of language requirement.
For casters' reaction spells could be useful, when in higher levels and you won't need low-level slots that much. I don't remember how much of them are on divine list though. What I quickly found, 1-action: typical Guidance, Shield, also Thoughtful Gift. Reactions: Air Bubble, Blood Vendetta.
Also maybe this guide would help a bit: divine list
and maybe this? oracle by blammit
Here are specific rules for Aid: Aid
They are also very GM-dependent.
I for example one-action aimed and then shot with a reaction to help allies attacking with my Ranger (Strike against DC20, no damage from me). It conforms with the rules and is rather plausible (an enemy has trouble to dodge both attacks at the same time).
Spells don't look very suitable as they are 2 actions, and generally aren't done as reactions, especially cantrips. But again, your GM could judge differently.
3) Your build isn't shown, the link is bad. Also at least free Pathbuilder links are temporary and are overwritten very quickly. Personally I'm not a great help with char building advice anyway :)
Bellflower tiller looks interesting, but quite plot-dependent if you aren't ignoring the flavor.
I am GMing an Abomination Vaults campaign right now.
HumbleGamer wrote: 1) Given the party composition and the campaign, do you think a healer is mandatory or the frontline might be strong enough to resist (our ranger is also going to take witch dedication to get lesson of life )? Every party should have at least one person with the Medicine skill and at least one person who can heal in combat (via Battle Medicine or healing spells). A Life Oracle is a good choice for this campaign, especially with so many front-liners. You'll need some spell utility in the party.
HumbleGamer wrote: 2) Are there some good reactions and single actions for spellcasters? Single action spells like Shield and Guidance are good choices. Using Aid to help your allies (it does take 2 actions to get the reaction for Aid). Since you are a Life Oracle, casting Heal on yourself is going to be an important part of your turn. Bon Mot might come in handy.
HumbleGamer wrote: tldr: i am currently looking for some lvl 6,8,10,14 class feats ( archetype/dedications ) to get ( by lvl 6 stats are 8,16,16,10,16,19 ). Abomination Vaults only goes to Level 10. You might hit Level 11 by the end of the adventure if you're lucky. Don't plan for levels higher than that.
For monster identification skills, there's several recurring enemy groups that come up often: Abberations (Occultism), Undead (Religion), and Fiends (Religion). Investing in Religion or Occultism will help you identify monsters (and other lore!) in the dungeon.
You can shop for items in Otari (up to level 4 items, or level 10 consumables), or have items shipped in from Absalom for a small fee. Absalom is the largest city in the Inner Sea and would have nearly anything for sale, GM allowing on rarity. If you want, the party could even take a day trip to Absalom to do some shopping.
Errenor wrote:
2) There's also Bon Mot. Though Divine casting wouldn't benefit much from it probably? Thaumaturge maybe? Don't know the class well. Fear is more universal and you can get rid of language requirement.
For casters' reaction spells could be useful, when in higher levels and you won't need low-level slots that much. I don't remember how much of them are on divine list though. What I quickly found, 1-action: typical Guidance, Shield, also Thoughtful Gift. Reactions: Air Bubble, Blood Vendetta.
Also maybe this guide would help a bit: divine list
and maybe this? oracle by blammit
Here are specific rules for Aid: Aid
They are also very GM-dependent.
I for example one-action aimed and then shot with a reaction to help allies attacking with my Ranger (Strike against DC20, no damage from me). It conforms with the rules and is rather plausible (an enemy has trouble to dodge both attacks at the same time).
Spells don't look very suitable as they are 2 actions, and generally aren't done as reactions, especially cantrips. But again, your GM could judge differently.
The main issue with spells as reactions is that the divine tradition sucks compared to occult and arcane. probably 1 action spells might end up being better.
As for aid, I see.
I thought there waw a more solid rules, or generic consent among the playerbase, but I guess it's pretty normale given how numerous the possibilities are.
Errenor wrote:
3) Your build isn't shown, the link is bad. Also at least free Pathbuilder links are temporary and are overwritten very quickly. Personally I'm not a great help with char building advice anyway :)
Bellflower tiller looks interesting, but quite plot-dependent if you aren't ignoring the flavor.
Oh I didn't know that.
As for the bellflower, I guess it's ok ( we are the heroes after all ).
If I were to forbid an archetype, a feat or a skill feat because it's plot dependent, I'd probably have to rule out more than 50% of the available stuff.
Thebazilly wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote: 2) Are there some good reactions and single actions for spellcasters? Single action spells like Shield and Guidance are good choices. Using Aid to help your allies (it does take 2 actions to get the reaction for Aid). Since you are a Life Oracle, casting Heal on yourself is going to be an important part of your turn. Bon Mot might come in handy.
prepare for aid requires 1 action ( and a reaction ) not 2.
what require 2 actions + reaction is "ready an action".
with bellflower tiller it would be just the reaction ( saving actions for guidance, for example ).
I was thinking about getting also psychic by lvl 9 with multitalented for the improved shield ( using it on an ally, and using the reaction to prevent damage ).
Guidance is pretty good!
Thebazilly wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote: tldr: i am currently looking for some lvl 6,8,10,14 class feats ( archetype/dedications ) to get ( by lvl 6 stats are 8,16,16,10,16,19 ). Abomination Vaults only goes to Level 10. You might hit Level 11 by the end of the adventure if you're lucky. Don't plan for levels higher than that.
For monster identification skills, there's several recurring enemy groups that come up often: Abberations (Occultism), Undead (Religion), and Fiends (Religion). Investing in Religion or Occultism will help you identify monsters (and other lore!) in the dungeon.
Good to know!
I'll consider going with religion then ( though godless ).
Thebazilly wrote:
You can shop for items in Otari (up to level 4 items, or level 10 consumables), or have items shipped in from Absalom for a small fee. Absalom is the largest city in the Inner Sea and would have nearly anything for sale, GM allowing on rarity. If you want, the party could even take a day trip to Absalom to do some shopping.
That's wonderful to hear!
Thebazilly wrote: Using Aid to help your allies (it does take 2 actions to get the reaction for Aid). Ready requires two actions to set up.
Aid only requires one.
HumbleGamer wrote: As for the bellflower, I guess it's ok ( we are the heroes after all ).
If I were to forbid an archetype, a feat or a skill feat because it's plot dependent, I'd probably have to rule out more than 50% of the available stuff.
Well, it's much more plot-dependent than usual. How is your char in Bellflowers? Why are they going on this adventure instead of their normal slave rescuing? They help helpless people, former slaves, and have a code name 'crop' for their group. Why do PCs also take advantage from this, how they also could be 'crop'? I'm not saying you can't answer these questions.
But because of all that it's an uncommon archetype (it's also uncommon archetype from another AP). And because it's uncommon GM has all rights to prohibit the archetype, by the core rules, not just because it's plot dependent.
Errenor wrote: HumbleGamer wrote: As for the bellflower, I guess it's ok ( we are the heroes after all ).
If I were to forbid an archetype, a feat or a skill feat because it's plot dependent, I'd probably have to rule out more than 50% of the available stuff.
Well, it's much more plot-dependent than usual. How is your char in Bellflowers? Why are they going on this adventure instead of their normal slave rescuing? They help helpless people, former slaves, and have a code name 'crop' for their group. Why do PCs also take advantage from this, how they also could be 'crop'? I'm not saying you can't answer these questions.
But because of all that it's an uncommon archetype (it's also uncommon archetype from another AP). And because it's uncommon GM has all rights to prohibit the archetype, by the core rules, not just because it's plot dependent. It's kinda easy to me.
The question would be "Can I get unknown archetypes?".
The answer would then be "yes" or "no", and if yes I can easily write something in terms of background.
The only limits I see are for balance purposes, from a DM perspective.
I may be running AV this Summer for our initial in-person campaign since the C word.
It being known as a dungeon crawl, I surmise that Trapping will be really relevant.
Life Oracle will be most useful, along with perhaps a Secondary healer via Focus Spells (looking at you LoHs and Goodberry) and perhaps toss in a BM specialists.
I really like Godless Healing skill feat for your Oracle.
Medic Dedication is really good.
You would become the god of healing if combined all 3...lol.
Just remember that you need some means of healing the Oracle, if the Oracle is knocked down/out. Potions of healing and/or battle medicine on another character are recommended.
One for all (through Swashbuckler dedication) is a good way for a CHA-spellcaster to use their 3rd action and reaction.
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