Does having a scroll in hand via Scroll Thaumaturgy interfere with the damage bonus from Implement's Empowerment?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Does having a scroll in hand via Scroll Thaumaturgy interfere with the damage bonus from Implement's Empowerment?
"You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit."
Lets see:
Is a scroll a single one-handed weapon?
Is it an implement?
Is it esoterica?
IMO, no, no and no.
PS: is there a reason you made 6 threads about the same thing?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Does having a scroll in hand via Scroll Thaumaturgy interfere with the damage bonus from Implement's Empowerment?"You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit."
Lets see:
Is a scroll a single one-handed weapon?
Is it an implement?
Is it esoterica?IMO, no, no and no.
What about Scroll Thaumaturgy's "You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica."? If it's treated like esoterica, there should be no interference, right?
PS: is there a reason you made 6 threads about the same thing?
Obviously I really fealt I needed an answer. ;)
Seriously though, it was just a poor connection. I clicked Submit Post and the page would just remain frozen. I clicked it a few more times and nothing would change or move. Finally, after several frustrating minutes, I gave up, copied the text, and closed the browser, fully intending to start again and paste it into a new post.
That's when I noted that there were six duplicates, which I reported before moving on.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
What about Scroll Thaumaturgy's "You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica."? If it's treated like esoterica, there should be no interference, right?
No: it just allows the hand to do double duty like it does with esoterica. It in no way mentions an exception for Implement's Empowerment requirements. Drawing and holding it in the same hand as a qualifying item and/or like you would a qualifying item doesn't make it a qualifying item.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Lets see:
Is a scroll a single one-handed weapon?
Is it an implement?
Is it esoterica?IMO, no, no and no.
Agreed.
You can draw and activate scrolls with the same hand holding an implement, much like you can for esoterica.
It does not cause a scroll to become an implement or esoterica. So if you are holding one, then you are holding something more than a weapon, an implement, or esoterica.
And as for Scroll Esoterica
Your esoterica includes scraps of scriptures, magic tomes, druidic markings, and the like, which you can use to create temporary scrolls.
This doesn't say that the temporary scrolls themselves are esoterica either - just that they are made from them.
|
And as for Scroll EsotericaYour esoterica includes scraps of scriptures, magic tomes, druidic markings, and the like, which you can use to create temporary scrolls.This doesn't say that the temporary scrolls themselves are esoterica either - just that they are made from them.
The feat has the esoterica trait though. I figured that carried over to the scrolls due to the definition of esoterica earlier in the Thaumaturge rules.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
The feat has the esoterica trait though. I figured that carried over to the scrolls due to the definition of esoterica earlier in the Thaumaturge rules.
Good catch. I hadn't noticed that.
However,
The esoterica trait is present in many thaumaturge feats and class features that incorporate the various talismans, supernatural trinkets, and other objects you carry with you. Abilities that have the esoterica trait require you to be in possession of your esoterica to use them. Normally, you're assumed to always have your esoterica with you, but in some rare circumstances, you might either not have them on hand or have your gear stripped from you.
Nothing in there says that a scroll created from esoterica is also esoterica. The trait only says that if you don't have your esoterica for some strange reason, then you couldn't create a temporary scroll.
|
|
The feat has the esoterica trait though. I figured that carried over to the scrolls due to the definition of esoterica earlier in the Thaumaturge rules.Good catch. I hadn't noticed that.
However,
The esoterica trait is present in many thaumaturge feats and class features that incorporate the various talismans, supernatural trinkets, and other objects you carry with you. Abilities that have the esoterica trait require you to be in possession of your esoterica to use them. Normally, you're assumed to always have your esoterica with you, but in some rare circumstances, you might either not have them on hand or have your gear stripped from you.Nothing in there says that a scroll created from esoterica is also esoterica. The trait only says that if you don't have your esoterica for some strange reason, then you couldn't create a temporary scroll.
It does HEAVILY imply that the scrolls are part of your collection of esoterica, though it is only an implication. I think it is really up to GM fiat at this point based on if one prefers RAW or RAI. Some clarifying errata would be nice. Overall though, it only affects the class's flexibility slightly and isn't going to ruin any character builds.
It does HEAVILY imply that the scrolls are part of your collection of esoterica, though it is only an implication. I think it is really up to GM fiat at this point based on if one prefers RAW or RAI. Some clarifying errata would be nice. Overall though, it only affects the class's flexibility slightly and isn't going to ruin any character builds.The feat has the esoterica trait though. I figured that carried over to the scrolls due to the definition of esoterica earlier in the Thaumaturge rules.Good catch. I hadn't noticed that.
However,
The esoterica trait is present in many thaumaturge feats and class features that incorporate the various talismans, supernatural trinkets, and other objects you carry with you. Abilities that have the esoterica trait require you to be in possession of your esoterica to use them. Normally, you're assumed to always have your esoterica with you, but in some rare circumstances, you might either not have them on hand or have your gear stripped from you.Nothing in there says that a scroll created from esoterica is also esoterica. The trait only says that if you don't have your esoterica for some strange reason, then you couldn't create a temporary scroll.
Yes, in this case it'd be GM fiat if expanded to include all scrolls, as in arbitrary overruling what's written, rather than natural GM adjudication.
Scroll Thaumaturgy saying "much like you can for esoterica", it's both distinguishing it from esoterica and only adding the ability to hold one alongside an Implement. Yet note that so far that's only scrolls in their normal sense. Not RAW, no sign of RAI in allowing them to be held in one's hand while using Implement's Empowerment.Yet that's not the feat with the Esoterica Trait, that'd be Scroll Esoterica (and its chain of feats), and as mentioned above the Esoterica Trait says that you need your esoterica to use those feats. Since the wording of the feat's description only mentions using bits of esoterica to create some specific scrolls, and not a change to what a scroll is, one might conclude these too would not work with Implement's Empowerment.
I'm forced to disagree because the name of the feat itself flat out says "Scroll Esoterica", as in some of your esoterica is scrolls. What else could "Scroll Esoterica" mean? So for those specific scrolls, I'd say yes, they're also part of your esoterica, allowing you to use Implement's Empowerment with those few scrolls in hand.