Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
What exactly does it mean for something like blue dragonfly poison to apply the frightened condition? Normally, frightened wears off after one round, but stages 2 and 3 of this poison might go on for 20 minutes. Does the victim just get frightened 1 for an instant once in a while, but shake it off immediately? This really doesn't make sense to me; it seems like the frightened condition is intended to last for the full duration of the poison (unless the victim makes a save against the poison itself to get down to stage 1). Many poisons have some extra verbiage like "the sickened condition can't be reduced until the poison's effects end", but this one does not.
I found a couple of older threads (link, link) about this question but I managed to give myself the confused condition while reading them, and they mostly focused on the question of conditions lasting longer than the poison, not the other way around.
Backstory: I'm looking for something I can have Bokken sell to my PCs that they can use to poison the Stag Lord in chapter 3 of Kingmaker, which won't kill him but will likely weaken him for a fight about an hour after he drinks it. A longer-lasting variant (which I'm fine with) of either belladonna or blue dragonfly poison would seem to fit the bill, and Bokken should even be able to get blue dragonflies in this area, since boggards live nearby.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
It also mentioned "confused 1" so I think the writer was the one who was confused.
Frightened will only last the one round. The dazzled condition would last the 10 minutes. What's really bad is being confused for a whole minute, though there's ways to break that.
Also some tips for the Stag Lord:
Either that was an oversight in editing or this is a crap poison not intended to give long-term frightened. I'm 50/50 on which, but the fact that it lists "confused 1" when confused doesn't have severities leads me to believe it was editing and/or a writer who doesn't know how conditions really work. But unless and until they issue errata we're stuck with how it is now, which as you say is shaken off in an instant compared to the duration of the potion
If you can choose when to start the fight, arsenic is p good. You'd have to do something about the low DC though, but then again belladonna doesn't have much higher. What level are you limited to?
how i understand it is this, but my knowledge of poisons and other afflictions is a little shallow. i may be off.
become poisoned.
fort save. pass? nothing happens. end tree. else...
fail? nothing happens, but...
10 minutes elapse.
stage 1 effects start. dazzled for 10 minutes. dazzle permanent until poison goes away.
10 minutes elapse.
fort save. pass? you're cured. congrats. otherwise...
fail? welcome to stage 2. next 10 minutes you're dazzled and frightened 1. both conditions permanent until poison is cured.
10 minutes elapse.
fort save. pass? back to stage 1 with you. dazzled for 10 minutes, then poison end.
fail? stage 3. frightened 1, confused for 1 minute. conditions permanent until poison cured.
1 minute elapses.
fort save. pass? go back to stage 2. dazzle + frightened 1 for 9 minutes. end poison.
fail? repeat frightened 1 and confused for a minute
if continue to fail,
increment last stage until a total of 30 minutes have elapsed after onset start for total of 40 minutes. then save for confusion.
see also stages and conditions from afflictions
If some effect lists 'Frightened 1 for 1 minute', I would interpret that to be equivalent to 'Frightened 1 and your Frightened condition does not reduce below that value naturally for 1 minute.'
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Baarogue wrote: Either that was an oversight in editing or this is a crap poison not intended to give long-term frightened. I'm 50/50 on which, but the fact that it lists "confused 1" when confused doesn't have severities leads me to believe it was editing and/or a writer who doesn't know how conditions really work. But unless and until they issue errata we're stuck with how it is now, which as you say is shaken off in an instant compared to the duration of the potion
If you can choose when to start the fight, arsenic is p good. You'd have to do something about the low DC though, but then again belladonna doesn't have much higher. What level are you limited to?
I'm not stuck with anything at all. This isn't a PFS game: I can make different rulings if I want to. I was just looking for guidance on what was intended here, and I agree that given the clear evidence of other editing errors in the same stat block, I think this is likely an editing error as well. Bokken is supposed to be 4th-level, so I would definitely side-eye anything higher than 5th, but Cordell Kintner is right that my intended victim is tough enough to just ignore most low-level poisons. Blue dragonfly poison does seem weirdly low-DC for the level, as well.
I think I will probably end up going with a slightly leveled-up variant of belladonna, instead. But thanks for confirming that this seems weird as heck!
jcheung wrote: fail? welcome to stage 2. next 10 minutes you're dazzled and frightened 1. both conditions permanent until poison is cured.
10 minutes elapse.
This is where you're going wrong; under RAW, the frightened condition passes off after one round the same way it always does (when inflicted by an instant effect like fear). This is the part that seems super lame to me, especially on a stage with a 10 minute duration, and I just can't imagine this is what's intended.
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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
From the 4th printing clarifications on the official FAQ
Quote: Page 458 (Clarification): If an affliction makes me enfeebled 1 without listing a duration and the affliction ends, am I enfeebled forever?
The rules on Conditions from Afflictions note that a condition can last for a longer duration that the affliction that caused it, using drained as an example. There are three categories of effects from afflictions here.
•Immediate effects like damage happen as soon as you reach the stage.
•Conditions that have a way to end them by default last for their normal duration. This includes conditions like drained, frightened, persistent damage, and sickened.
•Conditions that always need to include a duration because they don’t have a normal way to recover from them—such as clumsy or paralyzed—last as long as the stage of the affliction on which they appear. This also applies to effects that are ongoing but specific to the affliction rather than being defined conditions, such as a penalty to certain rolls.
Even though that's talking about conditions lasting longer than the affliction, it's safe to say the opposite is true too, that those can be shorter than the affliction.
Alcohol is another example where it clearly states that you can not recover from the sickened condition while you have the affliction. Without that line, you would be able to remove it normally.
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