While the spell is active (duration: until the tributes are done), creatures are fascinated. Normally fascinated ends when a creature or one of its allies is attacked, but in this specific case it sounds as if fascinated does not end as long as the tributes are not done (specific overrides general).
There were some older topics on this but short and without agreement.
Thoughts?
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“While affected by this spell, a creature is fascinated by you and can't use hostile actions against you.”
It seems in this case that the duration of the spell overrides the standard issues of breaking fascination. While being affected by the spell, the enemy is fascinated as an additional effect, not the primary. Due to that, I believe the spell still works fine if the targets receive a hostile action from the party.
“While affected by this spell, a creature is fascinated by you and can't use hostile actions against you.”
It seems in this case that the duration of the spell overrides the standard issues of breaking fascination. While being affected by the spell, the enemy is fascinated as an additional effect, not the primary. Due to that, I believe the spell still works fine if the targets receive a hostile action from the party.
I also feel as if you look at it from the other perspective, you run into issues. Fascinated ends when you or an ally are being attacked. If fascinated ends, would that imply that the spell also ends? Because when affected, you are fascinated -> no longer fascinated -> no longer overwhelmed.
But even ending the fascinated status would be weak for this spell (9th level), as a roaring applaus at 6th level would be a better choice, in combat at least.
And the spell is already "weakened", because incapacitation.
Any other thoughts? Interested if there are other opinions.
Thanks
It's a complex case, and I don't have a proper answer. At first, both rulings seem fine. So your ruling seems fine. But I don't know if there are hints somewhere else at how to rule such case, as applying conditions is one of the most basic thing spells (and effects) do.
That's why I haven't answered before.
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To me fascination is a side effect. The main feature is the loss of actions paying tribute. Which works even if your GM rules that the fascination is broken. So no the main effect of the spell doesn't end. I think it is clearly wrong to imply the reverse. Stopping a secondary effect doesn't stop the primary effect in this game unless it says so.
3rd party combat is very likely happening and that in itself is enough to break fascination.
If you want to get speculative I think there is room for the GM to maintain the fascination here for the duration of the spell, by claiming the spell effect reinstates it.
If you want to get speculative I think there is room for the GM to maintain the fascination here for the duration of the spell, by claiming the spell effect reinstates it.
I think that's the core of the question: Is the Fascinated condition maintained because you are supposed to be Fascinated until the end of the spell or not?
To me fascination is a side effect. The main feature is the loss of actions paying tribute. Which works even if your GM rules that the fascination is broken.
In combat, fascination will be broken almost immediately. Then what makes this spell 9th level? It has incapacitation. Targets must do a manipulate action at least once per round. twice even on a success.
A 6th level roaring applause (no incapacitation) also has targets (up to 10!) do manipulate actions once per round on failure (sustain).
Would removing the fascination as normal not make this a very weak 9th level spell?
Roaring Applause is a sustained spell, it asks for hands (otherwise the target can't applause), and the success and critical failure of Overwhelming Presence are way better... So, that's a lot of good things.
Now, Roaring Applause is definitely a top spell. So it makes other similar spells look bad.
Roaring Applause is a sustained spell, it asks for hands (otherwise the target can't applause)
Not entirely true, as even IRL there a different ways of applauding.
From Wiki: The age of the custom of applauding is uncertain, but it is widespread among human cultures. The variety of its forms is limited only by the capacity for devising means of making a noise[1] (e.g., stomping of feet or rapping of fists or hands on a table). Within each culture, however, it is usually subject to conventions.
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string musicians of an orchestra use bobbing their bows in the air or gently tapping them on their instruments' strings as a substitute for applause.
I'm quite sure that all intelligent being will have a way to applaud.
Now, Roaring Applause is definitely a top spell. So it makes other similar spells look bad.
Lvl 6 vs lvl 9? That would look real bad indeed. I believe that fascination part would make up for the difference though.
I'm quite sure that all intelligent being will have a way to applaud.
Your point of view, but around my table applauding uses hands.
Also, you don't need to be "intelligent" to be targeted by Roaring Applause, animals can be.Lvl 6 vs lvl 9? That would look real bad indeed. I believe that fascination part would make up for the difference though.
Fascinated is quite bad overall, unless you are a spellcaster. There are other differences in favor of Overwhelming Presence that clearly makes up for the level difference.