Class feats and Free Archetypes

[Chris_Fougere]

If you're using the free archetype variant can you still pick an archetype feat with your class feat at the appropriate levels - essentially getting two archetype feats at the same level?

[HammerJack]

Generally, yes. Nothing written to suggest otherwise.

Disclaimer: As always, ask your GM about implementation details of any Variant Rule in your game.

[Errenor]

For normal archetype feats typically yes. But if you mean starting archetype feats - dedication feats, could be GM-dependent. And depends on the fact whether you have an 'unfinished' archetype (not have taken enough [2 most commonly] additional feats from the archetype) - in this case you can't take another archetype dedication feat, even if it's free. GM can lift this restriction.

[Chris_Fougere]

I am the GM so that's covered :)

Just was wondering if I was missing something or if things would get wonky if people sort of double dipped to "clear" a dedication requirement faster.

[breithauptclan]

3rd vote for that ruling.

The rules for Free Archetype don't restrict you from taking Archetype feats in your regular Class feat slots.

But since Free Archetype is a variant rule - basically a formal houserule created by the game devs - it is rather common for a GM to further modify the rules.

One variation that I have thought up that would be relevant would be to have the Free Archetype and regular Class feat archetype paths not interact. So you would be able to take a second Archetype early using your Class feats because it wouldn't 'see' the Dedication feat that you have from your Free Archetype feat slots. The drawback being that you also couldn't take feats from your Free Archetype dedication using your regular Class feat slots because it also wouldn't 'see' the Dedication feat it needs as a prerequisite.

[Chris_Fougere]

breithauptclan wrote:

3rd vote for that ruling.

The rules for Free Archetype don't restrict you from taking Archetype feats in your regular Class feat slots.

But since Free Archetype is a variant rule - basically a formal houserule created by the game devs - it is rather common for a GM to further modify the rules.

One variation that I have thought up that would be relevant would be to have the Free Archetype and regular Class feat archetype paths not interact. So you would be able to take a second Archetype early using your Class feats because it wouldn't 'see' the Dedication feat that you have from your Free Archetype feat slots. The drawback being that you also couldn't take feats from your Free Archetype dedication using your regular Class feat slots because it also wouldn't 'see' the Dedication feat it needs as a prerequisite.

That just sounds needlessly complicated for me. This is more a matter of a player saying "I don't really care for level class feats so can I take 2 Level 4 Archetype Feats instead"

[breithauptclan]

Chris_Fougere wrote:

I am the GM so that's covered :)

Just was wondering if I was missing something or if things would get wonky if people sort of double dipped to "clear" a dedication requirement faster.

Exactly. The base rules for Free Archetype do have some possibility of getting wonky. So the GM is fully within their rights to add some tweaks to prevent problems.

One problem that is common is that some archetypes don't play well with Free Archetype - they don't have enough low level feats to fill all three of the 2, 4, and 6 feat slots. The GM would need to find some way of handling that - preferably some method other than simply telling the player that they have to just leave the slot blank.

Another is that by double dipping they can end up with a lot more of the archetype feats than is expected. Which isn't normally a problem, but can get a bit wonky with things like Fighter Resiliency.

Generally, allowing the player to buy their way out of their first archetype early by spending a regular class feat isn't going to cause any real problems.

[Kelseus]

Chris_Fougere wrote:

That just sounds needlessly complicated for me. This is more a matter of a player saying "I don't really care for level class feats so can I take 2 Level 4 Archetype Feats instead"

I would just be careful not letting a PC take a Archetype feat that is higher level than the PC currently. the levels are usually set to either prevent a Multiclass PC from stepping on other's toes (MC Wizard being as good at spellcasting as full wizard) or to keep you from getting access to abilities that the game assumes are not available until a specific level (no one should fly earlier than level 7)

[Chris_Fougere]

Kelseus wrote:

Chris_Fougere wrote:

That just sounds needlessly complicated for me. This is more a matter of a player saying "I don't really care for level class feats so can I take 2 Level 4 Archetype Feats instead"

I would just be careful not letting a PC take a Archetype feat that is higher level than the PC currently. the levels are usually set to either prevent a Multiclass PC from stepping on other's toes (MC Wizard being as good at spellcasting as full wizard) or to keep you from getting access to abilities that the game assumes are not available until a specific level (no one should fly earlier than level 7)

Absolutely. This isn't a matter of "I know I'm 4th level but can I take a 6th level feat" but "can I take two 4th level archetype feats in lieu of the free archetype feat and the class feat"