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Mechanically, yes. The lore is the same but nothing mechanically transfers from pathfinder 1e to pathfinder 2e
I have the advanced class and race guides. Does 2nd edition overwrite those, making them null and void?
It does and it doesn't
The two books you mention, however, are not technically "Golarion Lore." And, PF 2E changes the rules enough that these books are not at all compatible with the new ruleset.
Many aspects of the setting have been changed to make it less Eurocentric (and Heteronormative). This does change previous lore in many aspects.
Otherwise, for good or ill, Paizo has advanced the timeline - resolving PF 1E APs.
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There's some slight tweaks to the lore as well, mostly to present a more unified creative vision and try to undo some questionable choices. But you can largely use lore from PF1 fast forwarded 10 years.
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PF2 is a completely mechanically-distinct game from PF1. No rules content carries over between the two.
Lore-wise (what 'canon' usually refers to), PF2's setting is a continuation of PF1's, though some old elements have been recontextualized or abandoned.
Lore-wise (what 'canon' usually refers to), PF2's setting is a continuation of PF1's, though some old elements have been recontextualized or abandoned.
Yes. Yet Paizo apparently changed the lore only the bare minimum so that things continue to make sense. This was different from how some other systems such as D&D did with the Forgotten Realms setting where major events occurred along with the changes.
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Would anyone care to cite some specific examples of where the Lore/canon was known to have changed?
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Basically all the Adventure Paths have canonically happened, so the big changes are:
- Several Runelords are dead.
- The Worldwound has closed.
- Thrune has been overthrown in Kintargo after a rebellion.
- Ameiko is now the Jade Regent.
- Elvanna has been replaced as queen of Irrissen.
- Hobgoblins have reclaimed part of the country for themselves.
- Princess Eutropia now rules Taldor.
- Tar-Baphon has been exploded and is now recuperating after trying to take over Absalom. Furthermore, Lastwall is now undead-infested.
Not related to adventure paths (I think) is the founding of Ravounel, and probably more, but that's all I can think of.
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One thing to keep in mind is that mechanics in the previous edition did not suggest canon. Like even if it was possible to build a character that did X in first edition, that does not mean that one actually existed in the world, so the inability to build that same character does not contradict canon.
For the most part canon changes were "the (generally good) outcomes of each Adventure Path occurred" and "we have gone back and corrected some lore errors" but the latter is mostly an editorial decision in concert with "we have a new edition" than a function of the new edition.
However, Pathfinder First Edition remains entirely playable, it's just not being supported (by Paizo) with new material.
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Would anyone care to cite some specific examples of where the Lore/canon was known to have changed?
Do you mean by plot advancement, or things that were rewritten?
The former is easy; every 1e Adventure Path happened in-setting and was “won” by nameless heroes… so Reign of Winter means Anatasia Romanov is on the throne of Irrisen, while Iron Gods saw the Technic League broken, Kevoth-Kul return to lucid rule of Numeria, and Casandalee’s ascension to godhood. I think the biggest thing that wasn’t AP-based was the revolution that turned Sargava into Vidrian.
The latter has mostly been clean-up, things like tidying some godly alignments (no non-Evil Asmodeans, no non-Good Iomedeans, etc), shying away from certain Ancestries as monstrous kill-on-sight critters, and the like.
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Cannons weren't eliminated at all. In fact, cannons and guns, in general, are now far more widespread! Unlike in the PF1 era when there was literally a single warship with cannons, there are many now.
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Would anyone care to cite some specific examples of where the Lore/canon was known to have changed?Do you mean by plot advancement, or things that were rewritten?
The former is easy; every 1e Adventure Path happened in-setting and was “won” by nameless heroes… so Reign of Winter means Anatasia Romanov is on the throne of Irrisen, while Iron Gods saw the Technic League broken, Kevoth-Kul return to lucid rule of Numeria, and Casandalee’s ascension to godhood. I think the biggest thing that wasn’t AP-based was the revolution that turned Sargava into Vidrian.
The latter has mostly been clean-up, things like tidying some godly alignments (no non-Evil Asmodeans, no non-Good Iomedeans, etc), shying away from certain Ancestries as monstrous kill-on-sight critters, and the like.
I was looking for the latter, but the former is totally cool too!
Also, please consider using spoiler tags when discussing the ending of campaign adventure paths.
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Are spoiler tags necessary for things that are explained in things like the Lost Omens line? Since like Lost Omens Legends just tells you the stories of Kevoth-Kul, Eutropia, Azaersi, Tar-Baphon, etc.
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Are spoiler tags necessary for things that are explained in things like the Lost Omens line? Since like Lost Omens Legends just tells you the stories of Kevoth-Kul, Eutropia, Azaersi, Tar-Baphon, etc.
I am running the 2017 Ironfang Invasion adventure path converted to PF2 rules. It is set in the nation of Nirmathas. I purchased the PF2 rulebooks and sourcebooks, including the Lost Omens World Guide. One of my players was reading through the World Guide, turned to the Eye of Dread chapter that contains Nirmathas, and asked,
Ironfang Invasion is about hobgoblin General Azaersi invading Nirmathas with a gigantic army of hobgoblins and other non-human humanoids such as minotaurs and bugbears. The canonical ending is that Azaersi was forced by the player characters to return most of the territory she conquered but was allowed to keep some mountainous land which became the nation of Oprak.
(Yes, the spoiler tag is overkill, but I hope it made a good dramatic pause.)
The Lost Omens World Guide describes the Avistan and Garund continents of Golarion in the year 4719 AR, two years after the end of Ironfang Invasion. Thus, it tells how Ironfang Invasion affected the world.
I had to tell that player about the canonical ending for Ironfang Invasion and that it might not occur in our campaign. And it won't, because my players are on a different approach. For that matter, my campaign universe includes the events of the Rise of the Runelords, Serpent's Skull, Jade Regent, and Iron Gods campaigns that I played in or ran, so it already differs from default Golarion history.
By the way, I gave that player's archer ranger character the Tamrakh’s Fist longbow from page 27 of Lost Omens Legends in the chapter about Azaersi. I am mixing PF1 and PF2 lore.
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We're now at the point where 2e AP spoilers are getting into Lost Omens books - I think it's safe to say the ship has sailed on hiding any 1e info.
I have the advanced class and race guides. Does 2nd edition overwrite those, making them null and void?
As for particular changes directly related to the PF1 Advanced Race Guide and Advanced Class Guide:
The Advanced Race Guide had the races:
Core Races: Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Halflings, and Humans;
Featured Races: Aasimars, Catfolk, Dhampirs, Drow, Fetchlings, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Ifrits, Kobolds, Orcs, Oreads, Ratfolk, Sylphs, Tengus, Tieflings, and Undines;
Uncommon Races: Changelings, Duergar, Gillmen, Gripplis, Kitsune, Merfolk, Nagaji, Samsarans, Strix, Sulis, Svirfneblins, Vanaras, Vishkanyas, and Wayangs.
From Other Sources: Adaro, Android, Aphorite, Aquatic Elf, Astomoi, Being of Ib, Boggard, Caligni, Cecaelia, Deep One Hybrid, Drow Noble, Duskwalker, Ganzi, Gathlain, Ghoran, Green Martian, Grindylow, Kasatha, Kuru, Lashunta, Locathah, Monkey Goblin, Munavri, Naiad, Orang-Pendak, Primitive Human, Reborn Samsaran, Reptoid Rougarou, Sahuagin, Shabti, SkinwalkerS, Syrinx, Triaxian, Triton, Trox, Vine Leshy, Wyrwood, Wyvaran, and Yaddithian.
Pathfinder 2nd Edition switched to calling races "ancestries:"
Core Ancestries: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, and Human;
Uncommon Ancestries: Azarketi AKA Gillmen, Catfolk AKA Amurrun, Fetchling, Gnoll, Grippli, Hobgoblin, Kitsune, Kobold, Leshy, Lizardfolk AKA Iruxi, Nagaji, Orc, Ratfolk AKA Ysoki, Tengu, and Vanara;
Race Ancestries: Anadi, Android, Automaton, Conrasu, Fleshwarp, Ghoran, Kashrishi, Poppet, Shisk, Shoony, Skeleton, Sprite, Strix, and Vishkanya.
Versatile Heritages: Aasimar, Aphorite, Beastkin, Changeling, Dhampir, Duskwalker, Ganzi, Ifrit, Oread, Reflection, Suli, Sylph, Tiefling, and Undine.
The most startling change is the half-elves and half-orcs not being called ancestries. Those options are still around, but they are considered heritages of humans. Heritages are essentially subraces, and versatile heritages are crossbreeds. The PF1 Monkey Goblins are the PF2 Tailed Goblin heritage of the goblin ancestry. The leshy heritages are cactus leshy, fruit leshy, fungus leshy, gourd leshy, leaf leshy, lotus leshy, pine leshy, root leshy, seaweed leshy, and vine leshy. The planar crossbreeds such as aasimir and tieflings are no longer restricted to crossing with humans. For example, last week a tiefling halfling entered my campaign as a villain.
The other drastic change is goblins being promoted to core ancestry. This advances the lore, because goblins are now accepted into the cities, but the lore is consistent with them being considered barbaric and primitive only a decade ago.
Drow are not yet a playable ancestry in PF2. Cavern elf heritage has darkvision like drow, so someone could roleplay their cavern elf as a drow while waiting for the drow themselves.
The Advanced Class Guide had the hybrid classes:
Arcanist (sorcerer + wizard)
Bloodrager (barbarian + sorcerer)
Brawler (fighter + monk)
Hunter (druid + ranger)
Investigator (alchemist + rogue)
Shaman (oracle + witch)
Skald (barbarian + bard)
Slayer (ranger + rogue)
Swashbuckler (fighter + gunslinger)
Warpriest (cleric + fighter)
The investigator and swashbuckler have shown up in PF2 as their own full classes. Warpriest is a doctrine (subclass) of cleric, but not as much of a fighter as the PF1 warpriest.
The Advanced Class Guide also gave several archetypes that would change the details of individual classes. Archetypes are different in PF2. Almost all archetypes are available to all classes (a few have a class as a prereqisite) and are PF2's method of multiclassing.
The lore has not changed in any major way about the classes. For example, a player could build a fighter or a monk who is much like a PF1 brawler, so the NPC residents of Golarion don't notice the change. We expect that all the PF1 classes will eventually show up in PF2, but maybe as subclasses of other classes. For example, the PF1 spiritualist class is a particular eidolon choice (subclass) of PF2 summoner.
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Let's look at canon changes in one very small region of Golarian: the Sodden Lands.
Hilary, why are you picking this one small region of the Mwangi Expanse?
Because I did the rewrite of it for Lost Omens: Mwangi Expanse, that's why. And I wanted to provide a good sense of what changed and what didn't. The Sodden Lands can be a viewed as a microcosm of how 2E handles lore changes. When you are advancing lore, you need to make certain that you are not removing problems.
So... if adventurers solved problems in a 1E Adventure Path, new troubles should arise to keep them occupied. Likewise if you add a new location, you should include an adventure hook that homebrew GMs can use in their own games.
CANON CHANGE
The Yamasans used to be cannibals in 1e. We've completely dropped that regrettable bit of lore and changed their culture. In my headcanon, the cannibalism was nothing more than a nasty rumor that was later proven to be untrue. Instead, we've left in a mystery about their vaults, and why they must return each year.
NEW MATERIAL
I added some fun non-human locations.
A boggard alchemist shop that trades rumors and hires adventurers regularly to bring back ingredients for Cudslo's creations.
A portal to the First World large enough for ships to pass through.
A grippli village / gambling barge that hosts high stakes gambling contests that attract gamblers from the First World, the Plane of Water and elsewhere.
STORY PROGRESSIONS
Hyrantum, the drowned city, used to be a pretty depressing place, and the Pathfinder Wiki still alas reflects this 1e canon:
Hyrantam, the Drowned City, was once the capital of Lirgen, in what today is known as the Sodden Lands. The Saoc Brethren built hundreds of towers for use as observatories. The coming of the Eye of Abendego drowned the city, but the tops of the towers remain above the water. The city's remaining population live atop the towers, which they have connected with a crude network of rope bridges and pulleys. For some reason, aberrations from the depths of the Arcadian Ocean are drawn to these observatories, so the city is a dangerous place.
When I was rewriting Hyrantum, I wanted to acknowledge the events of Seers of the Drowned City where the adventurers ally with some traditional monsters to defend Hyrantum. Far from being an economically depressed area, Hyrantum has now become a boom town filled with merchants and others who want to trade with the First World due to the discovery of Ng's Well. There's been tons of fey immigration, and the rampant magic and growing pains of this heavily aquatic town have put new stresses on the region.
The Advanced Class Guide had the hybrid classes:
Arcanist (sorcerer + wizard)
Bloodrager (barbarian + sorcerer)
Brawler (fighter + monk)
Hunter (druid + ranger)
Investigator (alchemist + rogue)
Shaman (oracle + witch)
Skald (barbarian + bard)
Slayer (ranger + rogue)
Swashbuckler (fighter + gunslinger)
Warpriest (cleric + fighter)
The Secrets of Magic's book calls flexible versions of Wizard, Druid, Cleric and Witch as Arcanist, Fey Callers, Ecclesiasts and Invokers respectively.