I picked the spell "Ill Omen" for my 12th level witch Hexela. It was fine up until I read the part "For every five caster levels you have, the target must roll twice on an additional d20 roll (to a maximum of five rolls at 20th level)."
My DM got confused trying to figure this out and he came up with it only working for 3 rounds since it was the initial roll and the two more dice rolls. I think it means that there are extra rolls or something. The wording sucks and is very vague. According to the spell it should last for 1 round/level which means 12 rounds in my case.
Please can someone give a more detailed, less vague explanation for the spell and how it works. And use my 12th level witch as an example to explain it.
Ill omen wrote: School enchantment (compulsion) [curse, mind-affecting]; Level medium 1, mesmerist 1, psychic 1, witch 1
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Casting
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Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (hair from a black cat)
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Effect
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Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration 1 round/level or until discharged
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
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Description
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You afflict the target with bad luck. On the next d20 roll the target makes, it must roll twice and take the less favorable result. For every five caster levels you have, the target must roll twice on an additional d20 roll (to a maximum of five rolls at 20th level).
A target who can speak and has at least one free hand and who is aware of the spell and its effects (such as from a Spellcraft check to identify the spell as it is cast) can negate one reroll by spending a move action to utter a brief prayer or good luck charm to appease the spirits of ill fortune.
Duration: 1 round/level or until discharged. Since you are a 12th level witch this will last 12 rounds unless it finishes discharging earlier (see below)
Effect: The target must roll twice on the next d20 roll it makes and take the worst. Since you have a CL of 12, the target must roll twice on the next three d20 rolls it makes. Note that this could be three rolls in one round (if it has iterative attacks, or if it has to save against several spells, or even if it has to make a lot of skill checks). Any d20 roll it makes counts as one of the "charges." Once it has attempted three d20 rolls the "charges" are used up and the spell is discharged.
If it doesn't make any d20 rolls for four rounds but makes one in the fifth, that counts as the first of the three "charges."
The spell ends after 12 rounds -or- as soon as the target has made a total of three d20 rolls, whichever comes first.
Ill Omen:E1 Belafon explained it. The key is in the last line of the spell description for level 20... RoundDown[CL/5 +1]=chgs so at 20 you have 5.
yes, and the number of the counting shall be three...
OK thanks. That clears it up. So the three attacks are or can be spread over 13 rounds. Cool. So any D20 roll so hit him with that and then Misdortune withing 3 D20 rolls and make his life suck.
do note that it also include skill checks such as perception, stealth, spellcraft (not for the spell itself as that is made before the spell is completed to allow for counter-spells if readied) as well as intimidate or bluff.
a crafty enemy that figure out the spell's effect can circumvent it by ether the mentioned move action or other skill checks that might take even less action.
for example they can try a bluff check to lie (as part of talking, free action) along with Conveying Secret Message (bluff check, part of talking but takes twice as long, still twice of a free actions is?) and try and identify you or any other creature around (knowledge(vary) check, no action).
or just make 3 different knowledge checks if it has enough targets (a dwarf, a halfling and a human around for example)
well, a reasonable GM is going to stop metagaming nonsense. So don't present them as likely scenarios.
For the spell: the three effects aren't 'attacks' and it is one target gets 3 'bad rolls' within 12 r. It is very likely to only last a round or two at 12th level so don't think of it as a long term whammy.
While it is a great effect, you need higher level spells to really make a difference, say 5-6th level spells.
What zza ni suggests is within the boundaries of the rules as written but is easily recognizable as being certainly against the rules as intended. It's metagaming, exploiting, rule-lawyering - whatever you want to call it.
Ill omen is explicit about how a target who identifies the spell can get rid of one of the charges - spend a move action to do nothing else. Allowing it to suddenly decide to take a bunch of no-cost actions it would not have otherwise taken is completely against how this spell is presented.
Cheesy rules lawyer wrote: I was planning on moving 30', so I'll move 10, then jump 5' (can't fail a DC 5 acrobatics check with my +7), move another 10', then jump another 5' (can't fail a DC 5 acrobatics check with my +7), then try to identify this human in front of me. (I only have a knowledge: local of +2, but I don't care if I make this.) Well, that ate up all three charges in the space of the move I needed to take anyway. A GM should certainly not allow players to do this and a good GM will also be self-aware enough to realize the enemies shouldn't do it either.
Oh, and by the way - zza ni's suggestion of making a bluff check to lie as a free action is also incorrect. Talking may be a free action but bluffing takes time.
Bluff wrote: Action: Attempting to deceive someone takes at least 1 round, but can possibly take longer if the lie is elaborate.
So I should not plan on it being that helpful and stick with the Misfortune Hex, Evil Eye Hex and cackle.
I have been trying to make my Witch even more of a bad ass in the game and thought the Ill Omen was more powerful.
Thanks for the info...
Spells in general are rated by power or effect and that scales with level. So - the most powerful spells are generally higher spell level.
since you seem to be new at this -
I'd read a class guide at ZG.
then Items that can save you thread 2019
Witch Spell List by school @ AoN
Gomezaddams51 wrote: So I should not plan on it being that helpful and stick with the Misfortune Hex, Evil Eye Hex and cackle.
I have been trying to make my Witch even more of a bad ass in the game and thought the Ill Omen was more powerful.
Thanks for the info...
Oh, ill omen is very helpful. It's just that you need a plan for it. The best use is usually as a setup for another spell or supernatural ability that you really want the target to fail. Any additional disadvantaged rolls are just gravy.
-You delay until right before the wizard, cast ill omen, then have the wizard follow up with phantasmal killer.
-Quickened ill omen + misfortune gives you a really good chance to land that misfortune and have it stick.
-Quickened ill omen is just great in general. It's a 5th-level slot but incredibly useful as a setup tool.
In general;
A) Spell Focus(N or E) is an excellent choice for Witches.
B) if you do a lot of summoning - Spell Focus(C) & Augment Summoning.
C) Metamagics to take (rather than rods): Reach(+1 to +3), Bouncing(+1), Persistent(+2). Intensified(+1) & Dazing(+3) are good BUT work best with evoKations. Quicken(+4) is great but again your hexes are Su and it may not be the best choice but it allows a 1-2 KO (spell) punch. For the higher cost metamagics two traits come into play; Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter (to be tasteful/tactful put them on different spells).
D) IF you can get a familiar with hands that can talk it opens a whole host of trickery via you taking over your familiar. The Ring of Eloquence can help with languages. Monkey, Soulbound Dolls are a classic. Note that SU abilities stay with your body (big hit for Witches). Otherwise you have to make due with Magic Jar/Possession...
see Magic Item Body Slots @ AoN and AnmlCmpn/Familiar PFS Blog 2017
Some very good spells to choose from;
4th: Spite:A4, Black Tentacles:C4, Cure Serious Wounds:C4, Dimension Door:C4, Solid Fog:C4, Summon Monster 4:C4, Locate Creature:D4, Scrying:D4, Charm Monster:E4, Confusion:C4, Death Knell Aura:N4, Death Ward:N4, Enervation:N4, Familiar Melding:N4.
5th: Cure Critical Wounds:C5, Summon Mon 5:C5, Teleport:C5, Curse of Disgust:E5, Feeblemind:E5, Mind Fog:E5, Major Curse:N5, Magic Jar:N5, Possess Object:N5, Soulswitch:N5, Suffocation:N5, Waves of Fatigue:N5, Overland Flight:T5, Reincarnate:T5.
I will have to figure out the Ill Omen and when to use it. I will have to look into the metamagics too.
In our party we have a female Sorcerer/Rogue; Half Elf female Fighter (Our Tank); a male Asimar War Priest; and a female Halfing Bard and my human female Witch. We also have an NPC Fairy Dragon who hangs out with us and a Blue Slime (mage) thing that is CG aligned. My witch has saved the party with Misfortune quite a bit and also healed them with her Healing Hex.
I love playing my witch. She has Mad and Scapegoat as backgrounds, so she is kind of nuts. Kind of a cross between Harley Quinn and Wednesday Addams. She has the following abilities:
Strength: 10
Intelligence 25
Dexterity: 20
Wisdom: 8
Charisma: 7
I wish they still had the Comeliness score, because I see her as very good looking (at least 16 or higher), but she has no people skills and that little on/off switch between her mouth and brain is missing so she says things without thinking them through. That and her Madness is the cause of her low charisma.
Patron: Insanity (Very appropriate)
These are her spells she has in her spellbook so :
0 Level Spells = 4
Arcane Mark; Bleed; Dancing Lights; Daze; Detect Magic; Detect Poison; Guidance; Infuse Weapons; Light; Lightning Sand; Mending; Message; Read Magic; Resistance; Stabilize; Touch of Fatigue;
1st Level Spells = 6
Burning Hands; Bleeding Strike; Cure Light Wounds; Dispel Magic, Lesser; Ear Piercing Scream; Enlarge Person; Glamour; Hex of the Bullseye; Hex Vulnerability; Hex Weapon; Hypnotism; Icicle Dagger; Ill Omen; Invisible Familiar; Mage Armor; Malicious Intent; Memory Lapse; Mount; Poison Weapon; Ray of Enfeeblement; Sleep; Summon Minor Monster; Summon Monster 1; Unseen Servant; Web Bolt;
2nd Level l Spells =6
Blindness/Deafness; Bullet Ward; Burning Gaze; Cure Mod Wounds; Damage Loins; Flurry of Snowballs; Fog Cloud; Glitterdust; Hex of Chaos; Hideous Laughter; Hold Person; Lipstich; Rolling Boulder; Shooting Star; Spectral Hand; Summon Cacodaemon; Summon Monster 2; Touch of Idiocy; Umbral Weapon; Web;
3rd Level Spells = 6
Anthropomorphic Animal; Bestow Curse; Disable Construct; Dispel Magic; Distracting Cacophony; Fly; Glossolalia; Gloomblind Bolts; Lightning Bolt; Magic Shop; Pugwampi’s Grace; Remove Curse; Silver Darts; Stinking Cloud; Strangling Hair; Summon Monster 3; Sundered Serpent Coil; Swarm of Fangs; Trial of Fire and Acid; Water Walk; Weapon of Nightmares;
4th Level Spells = 4
Black Tentacles; Confusion; Cure Serious Wounds; Dimension Door; Enervation; Fear; Fey Form 1; Foozle; Ice Storm; Minor Creation; Neutralize Poison; Nixie’s Lure; Petrify; Poison; Retaliatory Missile; Ride the Waves; Secure Shelter; Skeleton Crew; Summon Monster 4; Tongues Communal; Wall of Blindness/Deafness;
5th Level Spells = 4
Brimstone Storm; Cloud Kill; Cure Critical Wounds; Cure Far Wounds; Curse of Unexpected Death; Dominate Person; Hold Monster; Imbue Hex; Major Creation; Major Curse; Mind Fog; Remove Condition; Teleport;
6th Level Spells = 3
Banshee Blast; Dispel Magic Greater; Dust Form; Eyebite; Fey Form 2; Flesh to Stone; Hellfire Ray; Heroism Greater; Ice Crystal Teleport; Kinslayer; Living Lightning; Plague Storm; Raise Dead; Sadistic Summons; Slay Living; Stone to Flesh; Suggestion, Mass; Summon Monster 4
HEX’s
Agony 12 rounds Dc 23 (Su); Cauldron (Ex); Cackle (Su); Evil Eye -4 (10 Rounds DC 23) (Su); Feral Speech (Su) (Mammals); Flight (Su); Healing (2d8+10) (Su); IcePlant SU; Misfortune (Su) (2 Rounds DC 24); Prehensile Hair (Su) (12/Day); Slumber (12 Rounds, DC 23) (Su); Retribution (7 Rounds DC 23) (SU); Tongues
Other things she has:
Blouse, Cackling Hag’s; Corset of Dire Witchcraft; Headband of Vast Intelligence +4; Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4
Part of her madness, she talks about her Identical Twin Brother a lot and claims she and her brother were captured by a witch in the woods and she and the witch ate her brother. She also claims she is an orphan even after the party met her mother and father and sisters and brothers. To her they do not exist. Her mind is MC Escher artwork as interpreted by Salvador Dali.
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