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So I know that I've started a few other threads but now that we've have a few weeks to digest the new Treasure Vault, I thought I'd go through all the new (mundane) armor and weapons and talk about each of them in turn. I'll have to do this in batches otherwise the first post'll be about a million miles long, so just keep that in mind. Also, this stuff is just my opinion and my experience. I haven't had a chance to playtest all of these items yet, obviously, so I'm just going to guesstimate how good they are with a combination of my experience as a player and what I've seen to be true from Pathfinder 2e in general. If you have a different idea, please feel free to politely comment. Let's get a dialog going. Just try to be respectful to everyone else's opinions.
COUNTS AS UNARMORED
Gi While flavorful, sadly it is (mechanically) just more expensive Explorer's clothing. I get wanting to give more unarmored options, but why not just make it cost the same as explorer's clothes? While I like the idea, it's an extra silver for no mechanical benefit. You could have easily just reflavored your explorer's robes as a Gi before.
Scroll Robes A fun and goofy idea, I like the concept, though in practice, not that great. Saves you a single action, and you have to scribe the scroll which takes four days (unless you take the alternate crafting rules) Really not great until you get the magical version (Library Robes) which let you scribe a spell on them in an hour instead of four days. Still, they do save an action. Too bad you can't sleep in them.
LIGHT ARMOR
Leaf Weave You may think this is a just a more expensive version of Leather armor, but it has three things over leather. One is that it is technically wooden armor (despite the description saying it is made of leaves) so if you get armor specialization on it, crtis against you hurt the attacker. Secondly, you can turn it into Darkwood Leaf Weave, which reduces its strength requirement to 8 and makes it Light bulk, which is great for high dex, low strength characters (like Halfling rogues), Lastly it is easier to repair, and is less bad when broken, than normal leather. And that, given how often APs throw Shuln at us, is probably a good thing.
Leather Lamellar Pretty simple upgrade to Leather armor. A gold piece more but easier to repair. Provides piercing resist instead of bludgeoning resist if you are specialized. Not much to say here except I tend to encounter piercing damage the most in APs (usually from bite/claw attacks)
Buckler Armor In addition to being what the 3.0 sorcerer wore the Buckle armor is a decent light armor. It's noisy so, not great for rogues, but it lets alchemists, inventors, and investigators have out their healer's tools, alchemist's tools, and one other toolset with them (or artisan's tools and alchemist's tools) Great if you have quick repair and also either alchemical or medicine stuff.
Mantis Shell Armor Pretty expensive step up from studded leather, this suit of armor has a weapon cord, so if you are constantly dropping your weapon to swap out another, this might be worth it. Also, technically no metal, so a druid can wear it and persnickety GMs that don't let them wear studded leather armor can't complain. How you get your hands on it is another matter.
P.S. Technically the skeletal doesn't do anything because there is no entry for skeletal light armor in the armor specialization entry. Though we could reasonably guess what it should be.
Quilted Armor Not a fan of armor that doesn't get you to +5 between bonus to Ac and max dex, but this is +2 item armor that you can sleep in, so one step better than padded armor. So if you are an investigator or inventor with only 14 dex, I guess this is for you. Cheaper than the Armored coat
Sankeit Another wooden armor that we can apply the Darkwood armor to to make it lighter (and reduce the max strength down to 10). More expensive than Studded leather, but easier to repair. I think this would be good armor for mid game where you can get darkwood and have a mid-dex character with only 10 strength have no problems with armor.
Well, that is it for now. I'll try and come back later with my thoughts on the medium (and maybe heavy) armors. I hope that my thoughts have given you something to think on. And remember, if you spotted something I didn't see, or have a different opinion, let me know! We can work on this together to let other players know how useful all these new armors and weapons can be. I'm but one human being and I can't spot everything!
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Thank you for your keen analysis. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on the rest of it.
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Just wanted to point out that Leather Lamellar never gets a specialization bonus as it is light armor and all of the specialization bonuses only come into play for medium or heavy armors:
Source
Core Rulebook pg. 275 4.0
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Additionally, there is no 'low grade' option for Darkwood Armor so Darkwood Leaf Weave armor or Sankeit probably comes into play a bit late to be really practical...
Mantis Shell Armor Pretty expensive step up from studded leather, this suit of armor has a weapon cord, so if you are constantly dropping your weapon to swap out another, this might be worth it.
If the Weapon Harness Adjustment said if could hold a L item instead of melee weapon, it's be more interesting: it seems overly conservative as this is just the thing I'd like to use on ranged weapon or wand as an opening attack and then go to my normal attacks.
I mean, I can tape on a literal tree branch [club: "Clubs can be intricately carved pieces of martial art or as simple as a tree branch or piece of wood"], but a wand or pistol can't? I guess you can always say they are improvised weapons, but that's an iffy proposition for some people.
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@ Taja the Barbarian: Nice catch with the armor specializations. Why even bother labeling what kind of armor light armor is if the specializations don't apply?
As for Darkwood armor, you are right, but I feel there are probably some builds out there that get to some level of dex and then stop, especially spellcasters. So like, a bard with 10 strength and 16 dex and then he just puts all of his level up points into con, int, wis, charisma because he never attacks? He could do with Darkwood Sankiet armor. Or an Oracle in the same boat? Or any higher-level Inventor or Investigator that's trying to shave off a few bulk because they are carying 2 bulk of trinkets and tools and potions around with them?
MEDIUM ARMOR
Ceramic Plate Another Druid-Friendly armor, this one I wish was +4/Max dex 1 (like chainmail) so we could have druids get good armor with only 12 dex, but sadly not happening. As it stands it is just more expensive hide that always hurts your stealth checks and . . . can be . . . taken off easily? I don't . . . . I don't see the need to take off your armor quickly. It's a really cool character concept, but as it is, doesn't fit into any niche. Would be a must buy for druids though if it was +4/max dex 1
Coral Armor ANOTHER Druid-friendly armor, and ANOTHER one that is just +3/max dex 2 instead of +4/max dex 1. This one is easier to swim in even if you don't have 14 strength but . . . most people in this kind of armor are going to have 14 strength so I don't see the need for aquadynamic. The bonus of resistance to precision damage if you have armor specialization is kinda nice I guess.
Niyaháat EVEN MORE Druid-friendly armor that is +3/Max dex 2. This one is made out of bones and is easy to repair, so that's at least worth a few extra gold. And again, if you get armor specialization, rogues will hate you.
Wooden Breastplate What is this, the FOURTH armor in a row that is good for druids but is still +3/max dex 2? Why couldn't we get one that had the stats of chainmail!? Anyway, this one has a hidden bonus in that at level 8 you can get it made of darkwood (since it is wood) and that reduces its strength requirement to 12 and its bulk to 1. Pretty darn good for medium armor. Great for low strength, low dex oracles (or any caster with the sentinel dedication) that want to invest just enough in stats to get good armor but don't want to increase their strength or dex beyond 14.
Hellknight Breastplate Just a slightly more expensive Breasplate. Literally just breastplate, but worth 2 extra GP and it shows off your allegiance to the Hellknights. Really just a story item.
Lamellar Breatplate This armor is more expensive than chainmail, and it reduces your speed by 10 if you have less than 16 strength, or 5 if you have 16 or better. (This even includes if you are a dwarf with that feat!) The only things it has over chainmail is that it is easy to repair and that it reduces piercing damage, which I find to be the most common damage type (bite attacks, many claw attacks, etc.)
Lattice Armor At first glance, it isn't that good, it is just a more expensive Breasplate by a gold piece. But if you invest in getting armor specialization, this is the medium armor to get. It reduces damage from crits, one of the most common damages you will receive in the game. So Champions and those with Sentinel dedication sit up and take notice.
HEAVY ARMOR
Hellknight Half-Plate/Full Plate Like I said before with the Hellknight Breastplate, these are just Hell-Knight-Ified, slightly more expensive versions of the off-the-rack stuff. Same stats, just story differences. Mostly can be ignored.
Bastion Plate So this is heavy plate, that you can bury yourself in the ground for . . . or you could cast the sheild cantrip, use a shield, use a parry weapon. Heck, an ioun stone can give you the ability to do better than this by casting the shield cantrip for 50 GP. Not worth the 5 extra movement penalty IMHO
Fortress Plate See above, only the penalty is to your inititive instead of speed, so that's good. still, 50 GP gets you a dusty prisim Ioun stone which gives you shield at will instead of only +1 to AC vs. ranged attacks.
O-Yori It's just like plate mail except its a bit more expensive, it is one bulk more, and it is composite (better armor specialization effect IMHO) AND it is easier to repair. If you have the bulk to burn, maybe consider the 5 extra gold pieces for O-Yori Armor.
Notably Treasure Vault also came out with rules for stone armor even though there isn't specific stone armor listed: Stone can replace metal components in chain and composite armor; only plate armor that specifically describes itself as being made from stone can be crafted from this material".
Dunno how relevant this is to PFS, but outside of that format Sentinel Druids can wear stone O-Yori.
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Notably Treasure Vault also came out with rules for stone armor even though there isn't specific stone armor listed: Stone can replace metal components in chain and composite armor; only plate armor that specifically describes itself as being made from stone can be crafted from this material".
Dunno how relevant this is to PFS, but outside of that format Sentinel Druids can wear stone O-Yori.
There is a sidebar in treasure vault specifically telling Dm's NOT to allow that... :P
VARIANT MATERIALS, Treasure Vault pg# 169
"For most campaigns, metal weapons can be treated as interchangeable with weapons made from these alternative materials without requiring significant changes or adjustments. Armors should generally not be crafted from materials other than those they are presented as being made from, since accessibility to stone and wooden armors directly affects the balance and progression of various classes. Rather than allowing a character to craft a suit of full plate from a non-metallic material, direct the character towards the non-metallic armors presented on page 9 of this book."
So apparently, the current druid armors are there for it's "balance and progression" somehow...
It does seem very deliberate.
Are druids so much better than other casters that their maximum AC should be limited?
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It does seem very deliberate.
Are druids so much better than other casters that their maximum AC should be limited?
Not just that: they seemed go out of their way to force a 14 dex on them, since there aren't any 4 AC/+1 max dex armors...
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Why even bother labeling what kind of armor light armor is if the specializations don't apply?
"Future proofing for other abilities that might interact with it" would be my guess.
Are druids so much better than other casters that their maximum AC should be limited?
I host games for approximately 20 players. 3 out of 4 of those players would absolutey say "yes."
Even in this edition druids remain one of the most versatile casters in the game. Something had to give somewhere.
Why even bother labeling what kind of armor light armor is if the specializations don't apply?"Future proofing for other abilities that might interact with it" would be my guess.
Special Materials: For instance, Leather Lamellar is Composite: for instance, you can replace metal components in chain and composite armor with stone if you want, so it's no longer metal armor for things like shocking grasp. Or making a Wood armor out of Darkwood.
Design Manager
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One thing to note about lamellar in general, is that if you have an ability like Sacrifice Armor, you can make that clutch save with a significantly lighter penalty if the fight drags out longer than you expected after that point.
How does this all work as you level? I have a Ranger in Leaf Weave armor because it felt thematic to a Wood Elf. It occurred to me that, since I am an Archer, I will be pumping Dex all the way to level 20 the entire time. Eventually I will outgrow the +4 Dex cap...so then what happens?
Nothing, really. You could switch to Explorer's Clothes to get maximum value out of your dex cap, but you would have exactly the same AC as you would if you stuck with the Leaf Weave so you don't have to worry about it.
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How does this all work as you level? I have a Ranger in Leaf Weave armor because it felt thematic to a Wood Elf. It occurred to me that, since I am an Archer, I will be pumping Dex all the way to level 20 the entire time. Eventually I will outgrow the +4 Dex cap...so then what happens?
All max dex characters eventually outgrow their armor. However, wearing armor doesn’t hurt them as long as they meet max strength requirements. The dex limit ONLY applies to AC, not to hit or skills.
So if you have, say, 20 dex and leaf armor that is +4(from dex)/+1 item+proficiency)=(5 +proficiency)
That is versus +5 dex +0 item + proficiency=5 +proficiency
By the time you can get to 22 dex (around the time you get to your apex item for most people) then you will still need to be in a gi or explorer’s clothes, because they can hold armor runes. And those guys have max dex of 5, and can hold resiliency runes. So by then you should have +2 armor (and resilient runes) so the math doesn’t change
Either armor+dex=5+ other stuff (enchantment, proficiency)
Or no armor max dex=5+other stuff (enchantment, proficiency)
Heck, if your ranger has 16 strength, you could wear breastplate with your 22 dex and still be doing fine.
If you wanna adventure buck naked, I suppose you could but you are going to be ultimately down an AC (5 from max dex+3 from armor runes+proficiency vs 7 from max dex+ no runes) and -3 to all saves.
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The true use for Bracers of Armour: the naked adventurer.
Also note: you don't need any armour or explorer's clothing if you have Automatic Bonus Progression, as written you'd end up with higher AC wearing nothing at all.
Even the bracers of armor have a +5 dex cap
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SHIELDS
Caster's Targe Just like the library robes, it's a pretty good idea but inscribing a spell takes at least four days so it's not great. Pretty goo for a sparking targe magus actually, as this one (presumably) doesn't require a free hand. Sadly, only gives you a +1 bonus to AC.
Dart Shield So this is a shield that fires off darts that (as far as I can tell have the stats of a dart) While not fantastic, it does give you the ability to have an emergency ranged option with a buckler-like shield. It is particularly nice on thaumaturges as it lets you have a shield, ranged weapon, and melee weapon (shield bash) all in one with even with their handedness restrictions. Small note that this is technically not a buckler (even though it has the bonus of one) so I don't think you can hold something in the shield-holding hand.
Fortress Shield Ah, the star attraction of the Treasure Vault. This new shield gives you +3 to AC for raising a shield (as opposed to the +2 from a tower shield), so long as you have 14 strength (otherwise it takes 2 actions to raise), and as everyone will tell you, every +1 counts. That said, the -10 movement speed really hurts, though strangely enough, the Dwarf feat Unburdoned iron reduces the penalty to -5. So a Dwarf with Unburdoned iron and fleet would be just fine. Other options include Being an elf with fleet and nimble elf. Also note the 5 bulk. A dude in full plate with the fortress shield is maxed out on bulk just from those two items.
So, in conclusion, best shield in the game, but with plenty of downsides, so you might have to build around it.
Gauntlet Buckler Certainly a fun and flavorful Idea, but I don't really see the point very well. It is probably best for someone who is going to be switching between a two-handed weapon and sword-and-board for a while. Perhaps a swashbuckler who starts off with a longbow before switching to sword-and-buckler when the enemy gets in close. Interesting, if niche. Also might be better if it counts as a 'buckler' for things like buckler expertise
Harnessed Shield The harnessed shield lets you sort of attach your lance to your shield to make a single two-handed item that is both lance and shield. This ability to use a lance and shield at the same time is no joke, especially if you are a mounted character and loose your mount, or have to navigate a 5' wide dungeon. It does substantially cut down on your lance's abilities in combat, but it would be better to have it and not need it than vice versa. Just be careful of the -5 move speed penalty. While the move penalty doesn't affect your mount, it will effect you. Anyway, great backup for lance-and-shield characters in case their mount goes bye-bye.
That's all for now. I'll finish the shields later.
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It's annoying that the new shields don't progress into "sturdy fortress shield." I was looking at the fortress shield for my monk. It starts at 6 hardness, extra AC, speed penalty balanced by monk speed. I'd even have the option to flurry, and double action raise and take cover. It's outclassed at level 4.
The new deflecting shields are hit really hard by the lack of sturdy options. "Lose one hardness on most things to gain one hardness on specific damage types." Totally worthless at 4th level.
I would love to build Captain America with meteor shield and everstand stance, but the magic items mean this build only works with a nautical theme, and even then, it has nothing after level 11.
Can a Fortress Shield be made of Darkwood, or some other advantageous material?
Can a Fortress Shield be made of Darkwood, or some other advantageous material?
they can be made of wood, stone and metal, so pretty much any material.
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SHIELDS, CONT
Heavy Rondache A poor man's sturdy Shield, this guy is a non-magical shield designed to take a few hits before being destroyed. It might be okay early game for someone who wants to avoid a few blows from goblins or kobolds, but it is going to be swiftly outclassed and replaced with the Sturdy Shield once you can get your hand on one. The fact that it only offers a +1 to AC is also kinda bad . . . Lastly it says it is 'like a buckler.' Don't know if that means if it is treated like one (that is, that hand can hold an item like a torch, or benefits from Buckler expertise.) Something to think about.
Hide Shield Another Druid option, this shield is basically the Heavy Rondiche but non-metal, though it offers a +2 to AC. Actually, with deflect bludgeoning, it could take a few small hits from slings or light clubs. Probably a good early-level shield for a druid before they move on to a wovenwood shield.
Klar A punching dagger integrated into the shield. Note that the Klar isn't finesse or agile, so it's really not that great. Only grants a +1 to AC, which leads me to say I have no idea why they made this a shield and not a weapon that just has the parry trait. I guess the good thing about it is that you can still shield bash with it, granting you a weapon that can do P/B/S without modular (like the polytool.) With that in mind, it might be good for a Thaumaturge looking to capitalize on versatility.
Meteor Shield A throwable Shield is going to be useless largely unless you can get it back, and technically, you can't without picking it up. Note that, rules as written, the returning rune and the Dwarven level 9 ancestry feat 'Returning Throw' does not work as the shield doesn't have the thrown trait, but the 'shield throw' trait, though most GMs I know would allow it.
Razor Disk Same as the meteor shield, with all the same problems, only you trade in a d6 melee weapon attack for a shorter range and less AC boost.
One thing of note for both shields: like the Dart Thrower, if you could get the shield to come back to you (like with a nice GM) then this would make a decent Thaumaturge weapon as you would have a melee weapon, ranged weapon, and shield all in one hand, and your other hand could be free to hold your implement.
Salvo Shield Since it mentions it can be wooden, this Druid option shield. It has increased hardness against ALL physical ranged weapons, so it might be nice for an early level adventurer, but you are eventually going to want to trade it in for a sturdy shield or woodwoven shield if you plan on shield blocking.
Swordstealer Shield Despite looking cool AF (who wouldn't want hooks on their shield?!) Its just not that good. Not a whole lot of attacks are slashing based, and the shield will only be useful for shield blocking for the first few levels anyway. Just save up your money to get a sturdy/woodwoven shield.
Okay, Shields done! next up, the new Melee weapons!
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I was tricked. You promise weapons but there is naught but armors and shields. You villain.
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Klar A punching dagger integrated into the shield. Note that the Klar isn't finesse or agile, so it's really not that great. Only grants a +1 to AC, which leads me to say I have no idea why they made this a shield and not a weapon that just has the parry trait. I guess the good thing about it is that you can still shield bash with it, granting you a weapon that can do P/B/S without modular (like the polytool.) With that in mind, it might be good for a Thaumaturge looking to capitalize on versatility.
Razor Disk Same as the meteor shield, with all the same problems, only you trade in a d6 melee weapon attack for a shorter range and less AC boost.
One thing of note for both shields: like the Dart Thrower, if you could get the shield to come back to you (like with a nice GM) then this would make a decent Thaumaturge weapon as you would have a melee weapon, ranged weapon, and shield all in one hand, and your other hand could be free to hold your implement.
Sadly, you run into the same thing as you do with attached weapons: you are still wielding the item you're attaching it to as Integrated uses Attached rules: "works like an attached weapon but can't be removed from the shield". This means you're holding something other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica and therefore do not qualify for Implement's Empowerment. The only shield that qualifies is the Dart Shield, as it's neither Integrated nor Attached and it also functions as a ranged weapon.
Harnessed Shield The harnessed shield lets you sort of attach your lance to your shield to make a single two-handed item that is both lance and shield. This ability to use a lance and shield at the same time is no joke, especially if you are a mounted character and loose your mount, or have to navigate a 5' wide dungeon. It does substantially cut down on your lance's abilities in combat, but it would be better to have it and not need it than vice versa. Just be careful of the -5 move speed penalty. While the move penalty doesn't affect your mount, it will effect you. Anyway, great backup for lance-and-shield characters in case their mount goes bye-bye.
A highly practical option for a mounted character forced to deal with their key weakness, but that's not what I see first. When I look at this time the only thing I see is a fire-breathing wyvern on the horizon that needs its tail cut off and carved for rubies. Another notch of evidence to suggest that somebody around the design team plays Monster Hunter.
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I recently updated my Armor Tables to include the Treasure Vault options. I added the mithral versions of the metal armors, as well. I thought browsers of this thread might find the tables useful.
Until VampByDay mentioned it here, it hadn't occurred to me that the new wooden armors made Darkwood versions possible. I'll add those when I get a chance.
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Sadly, you run into the same thing as you do with attached weapons: you are still wielding the item you're attaching it to as Integrated uses Attached rules: "works like an attached weapon but can't be removed from the shield". This means you're holding something other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica and therefore do not qualify for Implement's Empowerment. The only shield that qualifies is the Dart Shield, as it's neither Integrated nor Attached and it also functions as a ranged weapon.Klar A punching dagger integrated into the shield. Note that the Klar isn't finesse or agile, so it's really not that great. Only grants a +1 to AC, which leads me to say I have no idea why they made this a shield and not a weapon that just has the parry trait. I guess the good thing about it is that you can still shield bash with it, granting you a weapon that can do P/B/S without modular (like the polytool.) With that in mind, it might be good for a Thaumaturge looking to capitalize on versatility.
Razor Disk Same as the meteor shield, with all the same problems, only you trade in a d6 melee weapon attack for a shorter range and less AC boost.
One thing of note for both shields: like the Dart Thrower, if you could get the shield to come back to you (like with a nice GM) then this would make a decent Thaumaturge weapon as you would have a melee weapon, ranged weapon, and shield all in one hand, and your other hand could be free to hold your implement.
Yeah, the thaumaturge thing doesn't work with a lot of stuff, including the Iconic Mios. Mios is clearly wearing gauntlets with their military pick, so they should also not be able to use Implement Empowerment.
I've been asking on the boards for Paizo to fix Thaumaturge for a while. After all, it makes no sense that a shield with a complicated dart launcher built into it is fine, but a dude who's stapled some razor wire around his shield, well suddenly that's too far! A complicated gun built into the handle of a rapier is okay, but a normal pistol that has a really strong stock? THAT is unacceptable. Plus not to mention that, by some readings, your weapon thaumaturge could use a bastard sword or other weapon with the two handed trait as a weapon and still gain the bonus as it is a single, 'one-handed' weapon (that you are using in two hands, but who cares?! There is a developer who weighed in on this in the boards, but the errata never made it to official paizo errata.)
IMHO it needs to be re-written to say something like:
"For Implement empowerment to work properly, you need to have at least one hand that is either free, or only holding on to a single implement. This hand cannot be used for holding a two-handed item, or an item with the two-handed trait. This hand cannot be used to attack, as it is busy weaving the patterns and sigils needed to empower your other attacks. Characters with the ammunition thaumaturgy feat gain the ability to reload a weapon with this hand while still being able to use Implement Empowerment." (Or something along those lines. I wrote that at 4 in the morning so I'm sure I missed something.)
I was tricked. You promise weapons but there is naught but armors and shields. You villain.I said I’d have to break it up into bite-sized chunks, melee weapons are coming next, not to worry.
Please, take your time. You are doing great work here!
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I've been asking on the boards for Paizo to fix Thaumaturge for a while. After all, it makes no sense that a shield with a complicated dart launcher built into it is fine, but a dude who's stapled some razor wire around his shield, well suddenly that's too far! A complicated gun built into the handle of a rapier is okay, but a normal pistol that has a really strong stock? THAT is unacceptable. Plus not to mention that, by some readings, your weapon thaumaturge could use a bastard sword or other weapon with the two handed trait as a weapon and still gain the bonus as it is a single, 'one-handed' weapon (that you are using in two hands, but who cares?! There is a developer who weighed in on this in the boards, but the errata never made it to official paizo errata.)
I agree with your general point, but there actually is a bit of official clarification about two-handing a weapon now:
Pages 279–280 (Clarification): If I hold a weapon that requires 1 hand in 2 hands, is it a 2-handed weapon?
There are two answers to this.
For abilities that count the number of hands for a weapon while you're using it, such as an action with "Requirements You are wielding a one-handed melee weapon," count the actual number of hands you're using at the time. If you're holding a bastard sword in two hands, you couldn't use it with that ability. Weapons with the "1+" notation in their description, such as most bows, use both your hands when shooting, but leave you with a hand free for other actions the rest of the time.
Anything that's an intrinsic part of the weapon, such as a shifting rune, works differently. Reference the weapon's "Hands" entry in the weapons table—a bastard sword requires 1 hand, even though it gets a benefit in two hands from the two-hand trait. If you were holding a shifting bastard sword in two hands and activated it, you could turn it into a longsword (which you'd still be holding in two hands), but couldn't turn it into a greatsword (which requires 2 hands). For this purpose, "1" and "1+" are the same (though this doesn't matter for shifting since "1+" appears ranged weapons).
I was tricked. You promise weapons but there is naught but armors and shields. You villain.
Same, I got excited when I saw the name lol
I like the analysis so far, OP, good job. While TV introduces several additions to armor that I think will be important, where it's really at if you want customization is in the new weapon tables. Now it's easier than ever to find a weapon with a combination of traits you think is interesting, on top of also simply having more options because of the new weapons themselves. Nothing is TOO outrageous, and despite some problems (like the well pondered Advanced weapon proficiency), you can still build around most weapons types and enjoy the solid weapon selection.
It's not like in past editions where a lot of stuff was just garbage and you'd never have a reason to use it, because it takes the (at first glance small) differences of weapons with different traits and makes them mean something mechanically, so you can just pick whatever supports or fits your own playstyle. I really like that.
EDIT: I cannot state this enough, they need to make Advanced weapon proficiency easier to get for non-Fighters! That'd be a lovely change to see.
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SIMPLE MELEE WEAPONS
Corset Knife So this is basically just a dagger with concealable instead of versatile slashing. A d4 doesn't really do much, so I really can't see this used as a main weapon unless you are making a spy or something. I can see a spy-based inventor (using complex simplicity), thaumaturge, or rogue using one of these, but mainly for flavor. I should point out that you can load 29 of these puppies into a thrower’s bandoleer, though I might rule they aren’t so concealed anymore.
Frying Pan So as much as I love that a frying pan is a weapon, it is not that exciting. A d4 weapon, without agile or finesse isn't that great. However, it is the only simple weapon that is common that has fatal, which makes it interesting. Also, it causes an errata in the HALFLING WEAPON FAMILIARITY feat, meaning halflings that take take that feat are always proficient in the frying pan, even if they are a wizard.
The only real idea I can think for using the frying pan is to make an inventor that uses complex simplicity to increase the damage to d6. That way you can have a d6 (fatal d8) weapon that can add strength and int to damage, which should offset the rather small damage dice.
MARTIAL MELEE WEAPONS
Battle Saddle A decently damaging weapon that is actually pretty good! Parry trait can increase your mount's AC (one of the few ways you can do that) and you can have free hands to do whatever. In fact, a thaumaturge that somehow has a mount could do very well with this weapon, leaving both hands free to hold two implements!
Bec De Corbin My new personal favorite polearm. Anyone who knows me knows that I value weapons with versitile bludgeoning, as there are a lot of enemies out there that have piercing/slashing resistance, but not bludgeoning, or vice versa, including the Ocher Jelly. The Bec de Corbin has this option, plus it has reach, greatly increasing the range of your attacks, especially if you have AoO like with a fighter. Just a solid weapon.
Dancer's Spear My new favorite spear. This has all the benifits that I want from the Elven Branched Spear (reach, finesse) with the benifits of being common so anyone can buy it. AND it has versitile B! Finally, someone figured out you can whack a person with the haft of a spear! It gives up deadly compared to the Elven Branched Spear, but that is a small price to pay IMHO. Perfect for Investigators who want to melee but want to stay away from the front lines, or for rogues who somehow manage to get martial weapon proficiency. Could also work for swashbucklers, dex-based Paladins and fighters, all around solid weapon.
Earthbreaker An interesting Retcon, in PF1 Earthbreakers were basically mauls. Now the earthbreaker is basically a hammer version of the bastard sword or Dwarven Waraxe. Also, B versatile P, so it's actually a pretty decent weapon. Also, a hammer weapon, which is generally considered to have the best weapons specialization effect.
Flyssa So basically a shortsword, but with a knife category, which is generally considered to have a better critical effect. I forsee a lot of rogues and swashbucklers switching over to this common shortsword, if the rogue can swing the proficiency.
Long Hammer Another great polearm-like item (Technically it is a hammer), like a Bec de Corbin, it is versatile B/P reach weapon. But since it is technically a hammer, it is attached to what is largely considered the best crit specialization effect. I can see a lot of reach fighters making use of this weapon in the future, very solid. Plus, as a Dwarf you can take DWARF WEAPON FAMILIARITY to get it. In fact, depending on how you read the interaction between Dwarf Weapon Familiarity and ruffian Rogue, they might be able to sneak attack with it? Probably not, but it is interesting to think about.
Alright, that's enough for now, I'll try to finish the common weapons later.
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Flyssa So basically a shortsword, but with a knife category, which is generally considered to have a better critical effect. I forsee a lot of rogues and swashbucklers switching over to this common knife.
Would that Rogues could... Rogue bespoke proficiencies strike again!
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Flyssa So basically a shortsword, but with a knife category, which is generally considered to have a better critical effect. I forsee a lot of rogues and swashbucklers switching over to this common knife.Would that Rogues could... Rogue bespoke proficiencies strike again!
Fighter dedication, or maybe I was talking about fighters/investigators/rangers that dip into rogue? Eh? Eh? Also the martial experience feat from sword master dedication can get a rogue training in all martial knives (sadly it is level 10 feat)
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Even the bracers of armor have a +5 dex cap
The true use for Bracers of Armour: the naked adventurer.
Also note: you don't need any armour or explorer's clothing if you have Automatic Bonus Progression, as written you'd end up with higher AC wearing nothing at all.
They do, those were separate statements (and one is, while true, a joke).
Bracers are equivalent to (if awkward in progression) to explorer's clothing that allow talismans.
Explorer's clothing and bracers will reduce your armour if you play ABP and max out DEX, unless your GM houserules it.
As a side note, bracers of armor are IMO better than explorer's clothing, once you can afford them (bracers of armor type I being 8th level items at 450 gp) because spellhearts (which are affixed as if talismans) are often more useful than armor runes; unless you are looking for specific capabilities from runes or library robes for a caster. Before spellhearts, runes were (apart from the talisman dabbler archetype) often more useful than "fiddly trinket" single use items.
Earthbreaker An interesting Retcon, in PF1 Earthbreakers were basically mauls. Now the earthbreaker is basically a hammer version of the bastard sword or Dwarven Waraxe. Also, B versatile P, so it's actually a pretty decent weapon. Also, a hammer weapon, which is generally considered to have the best weapons specialization effect.
Similar to the dancer's spear, it's a common version of the gnome hooked hammer with Shove instead of Trip and the addition of Razing.
Earthbreaker: 4 gp, damage 1d6 B, bulk 2, 1 hand; Razing, Shove, Two-Hand d10, Versatile P
Gnome Hooked Hammer: 2 gp, damage 1d6 B, bulk 1, 1 hand; Gnome, Trip, Two-Hand d10, Versatile P
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One thing I want to bring up about shields: Treasure Vault has a couple of interesting shield only runes, which might influence the decision to use a shield in the first place (the only reason I'm mentioning it in a mundane item thread).
Catching +1 on Disarm attempts performed as part of a Shield Block. Once per hour, attempt a Disarm as a free action after a Shield Block even without having a hand free.
Retaliation Once per hour, trigger a blast of force damage at an enemy as a free action when you Shield Block a melee strike.
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I updated my Armor Tables with the darkwood options.
Flyssa So basically a shortsword, but with a knife category, which is generally considered to have a better critical effect. I forsee a lot of rogues and swashbucklers switching over to this common shortsword, if the rogue can swing the proficiency.
So basically a messer.
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Earthbreaker An interesting Retcon, in PF1 Earthbreakers were basically mauls. Now the earthbreaker is basically a hammer version of the bastard sword or Dwarven Waraxe. Also, B versatile P, so it's actually a pretty decent weapon. Also, a hammer weapon, which is generally considered to have the best weapons specialization effect.Similar to the dancer's spear, it's a common version of the gnome hooked hammer with Shove instead of Trip and the addition of Razing.
Earthbreaker: 4 gp, damage 1d6 B, bulk 2, 1 hand; Razing, Shove, Two-Hand d10, Versatile P
Gnome Hooked Hammer: 2 gp, damage 1d6 B, bulk 1, 1 hand; Gnome, Trip, Two-Hand d10, Versatile P
Nice catch. Didn't notice that. yeah, good eye.
MARTIAL MELEE CONT.
Panabas A d6 sword with the sweep and forceful traits and two-handed d10. I mean, not really that groundbreaking and nothing to write home about. I see some people using it for flavor but not much else. I'd rather go for a Bastard Sword.
ScizoreA d6 weapon with disarm and parry. Again, not anything too interesting to write home about. I suppose since it is a d6 weapon with parry, a thaumaturge could make use of it to increase their AC.
War RazorAgile, finesse, deadly d8 and backstabber are all nice, though that d4 hit die is pretty small. Really not very tempting, though a feint-based swashbuckler might be able to make use of it as they are constantly making people flat-footed,
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One thing I want to bring up about shields: Treasure Vault has a couple of interesting shield only runes, which might influence the decision to use a shield in the first place (the only reason I'm mentioning it in a mundane item thread).
Catching +1 on Disarm attempts performed as part of a Shield Block. Once per hour, attempt a Disarm as a free action after a Shield Block even without having a hand free.
Retaliation Once per hour, trigger a blast of force damage at an enemy as a free action when you Shield Block a melee strike.
Retaliation has a fixed DC, but it's basically free action damage, so I'll be taking it.
I'm not sure catching makes disarm worthwhile.
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UNCOMMON MARTIAL MELEE WEAPONS
Bladed Scarf A 2 handed reach weapon with finesse, and this one is in the flail group which has a better crit specialization effect than the dancer's spear, so if you can get your hands on one, it might be nice for an investigator or a rogue if you get it through unconventional weaponry. Sadly lacks the versitile-b of the dancer's spear, which knocks it down a peg in my eyes.
Breaching Pike One of the few d6 one-handed reach weapons. This Hobgoblin weapon is good for those who want reach and also a shield. A paladin champion with ranged reprisal could do pretty well with the pike. Not quite as good as the flickmace (which is a flail so it knocks prone with its critical special) but certainly not bad.
Combat Lure A finesse thrown weapon with the teathered ability to yank it better, this actually is a pretty darn good weapon for flying blade swashbucklers, especially because it is another flail (crit specialization: knock prone-no save). Plus, if your home region is the 'high seas' you have access, so that's pretty easy. Only downside is that it is a 2 handed weapon so not good for thaumaturges or anyone wanting to use a shield. Oh . . . Magus build? I'll have to look into that.
Fighting Fan An agile, finesse, backstabbing, deadly d6, monk weapon. Sadly, it is d4 weapon, so I don't really think it's worth it. Perhaps if you have a way of upping damage without the weapon, like with a thaumaturge, then it might work out, but it would basically be a style choice instead of a good weapon choice.
Jin Huan Dao . . . An uncommon one-handed d8 sweep weapon? I mean . . . I just don't see it. I'd prefer a longsword with versatile p.
Khopesh Like the Jin Huan Dao, this is a d8 one handed weapon, but with trip instead of sweep. Trip is maybe a bit more useful than sweep . . . but again, versatile p from longsword I think is better.
Kusarigama A pretty decent weapon actually, a d8 two handed reach weapon with S versitle B (and you know how I feel about that.) Also, as a monk weapon, you can flurry of blows with reach if you have monastic weaponry, so that's pretty great. All around solid monk weapon.
Leimano One of my favorite new weapons, this club is versitile slashing and fatal d10, so it is really solid as a weapon that can do a lot, and with a crit it can go nuts. I'm pretty happy with it, and can easily see a thaumaturge using it.
Okay, that's it for now, I'll finish up the uncommons later!
Kusarigama isn't finesse, though, which makes it pretty niche for monk. Being two-handed also means that you can't grapple (one of the major reasons to go strength-monk) though it does at least keep trip and disarm open. Being a weapon cuts out Mountain Stance as well.
There are ways to solve this. (With the right ancestry, you can grow dragon scales. Mutagens are also a possibility. You could just crank str and dex, and just accept the smallish AC hit.) It's not a trivial cost, though.
Basically, While it would be possible to build a monk who could effectively use the kusari-gama, it's probably more useful to someone who's using monk archetype to grab flurry of blows than it is to actual monks.