Character with a specialized animal companion


Advice


Hi all, I'm looking to create a new character with an animal companion, starting level is 8. I'm not sure which chassis I should build this character. Is a caster such as a druid with an animal companion a good idea or would a barbarian with beastmaster dedication for example be better? What does a typical round with an AC look like, and which AC is considered the best?


I rank the various ways of getting an Animal Companion based on what level you get the upgrade feats for them. So Druid and Beastmaster are at the top of the list, Ranger and Animal Trainer are a bit lower on the list, and Druid or Ranger Archetype are at the bottom.

I don't know how to rank which particular Companion would be better than another. From what I have heard, most people value the support abilities and upgrade paths more than the particular animal shape or stats of the companion at base.

Some things that I have seen on a typical round with a character with an animal companion (a Sorcerer with Beastmaster):

Cast a Spell and Command Companion is rather common.
Cast a Spell and move (leaving the companion alone) is also common.
I have also seen move, Command Companion, and something else for one action, though that is less common.


I think you need to decide first what you want your character to do.

Are you a mounted combat character?
Are you teaming up with your companion and wading into combat attacking the same foe (but not mounted)?
Are you a caster who is (probably) not using things that cause MAP and will command you companion as a useful 3rd action?

Decide that first. Which companion is best will depend partially on what you intend to do with them, their support abilities, etc.

Also, have you considered a Summoner?


Claxon wrote:

I think you need to decide first what you want your character to do.

Are you a mounted combat character?
Are you teaming up with your companion and wading into combat attacking the same foe (but not mounted)?
Are you a caster who is (probably) not using things that cause MAP and will command you companion as a useful 3rd action?

Decide that first. Which companion is best will depend partially on what you intend to do with them, their support abilities, etc.

Also, have you considered a Summoner?

Good points. I think I'd like to cast spells from range. At level 8 I should have plenty of spells to last an adventuring day. Seems like Druid is the play. As far as a support ability, I would think an AC that can either prone or frighten might be a better choice?

Could someone link me on the archives of nethys where the rules for animal companions are, I mean like what would the HP at say level 8 be for an AC? What would the damage be, etc.


Animal Companions. And their rules.

Though do note that their final result at level 8 depends on what feats you have for them. I think that all you can get by then is the Mature Companion feat. But I could be wrong about that.


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Incredible Beastmaster Companion is 8th, so nimble/savage companions.


Reviewing my options, I looked into a druid but it seems a Ranger might be pretty cool too. Please tell me if this would work. I'm thinking a flurry ranger from range with an AC that has a Support Benefit of frightening, and a Advanced Maneuver of being able to make the enemy flat footed so I can further reduce my MAP penalty on my arrows. This flat footed could be from prone, grabbed etc. So I was thinking maybe a Tyrannosaurus might fit this bill. The wolf would work too however it's Support Benefit isn't as good, but it's Advanced Maneuver is better. So a typical second round would look like Hunted Shot + Companions Cry (Overwhelm Advanced Maneuver or Srride and Attack). Is there any way to use the T-Rexs Support Benefit and Advanced Maneuver in the same round?


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Atalius wrote:
Is there any way to use the T-Rexs Support Benefit and Advanced Maneuver in the same round?

Beastmaster's Call: it's 12th level and requires 2 t-rex companions but it's doable.


Atalius wrote:
Reviewing my options, I looked into a druid but it seems a Ranger might be pretty cool too. Please tell me if this would work. I'm thinking a flurry ranger from range with an AC that has a Support Benefit of frightening, and a Advanced Maneuver of being able to make the enemy flat footed so I can further reduce my MAP penalty on my arrows. This flat footed could be from prone, grabbed etc. So I was thinking maybe a Tyrannosaurus might fit this bill. The wolf would work too however it's Support Benefit isn't as good, but it's Advanced Maneuver is better. So a typical second round would look like Hunted Shot + Companions Cry (Overwhelm Advanced Maneuver or Srride and Attack). Is there any way to use the T-Rexs Support Benefit and Advanced Maneuver in the same round?

Flurry ranger and animal companion don't synergize super well because dlurry wants to spend all it's action on shooting, but you have an animal companion you need to command.

In general (and I say this not having done the math) the precision ranger out damages the flurry ranger (for archery) under most condition, and has more flexibility. The flurry ranger can out damage the precision ranger under the right circumstances, but it's not frequent that you can actually do so.


It's also worth mentioning if you are using your animal companion for the support benefit, that it basically wont do anything else.

Using support precludes it from making attacks, just FYI. Although there might be a feat that overcomes that, I can't recall for sure.


Claxon wrote:

It's also worth mentioning if you are using your animal companion for the support benefit, that it basically wont do anything else.

Using support precludes it from making attacks, just FYI. Although there might be a feat that overcomes that, I can't recall for sure.

Very good point. So basically what I'd be looking for is a very good Support Benefit and not really consider the Advanced Maneuver so much because it will hurt the action economy. So the question would become, for 1 action is frightening a character worth it? Or would it be better to just do extra damage like a Scorpion 1D6 persistent bleed damage which goes to 2D6 once it's savage. Also is there any way to just attack one time with the animal companion without expending an action?


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Once you get mature companion feat (or similar, not sure if all archetypes classes have the same named option) your animal companion gets 1 action per round if you don't command it, but can only stride or strike (not support).

Frightened can be good, if you remember that AC counts as DC so frightened reduces AC for the whole party.

But you may want to find out if you have a fighter with intimidating strike (not sure that's the name) or someone else who will focus in intimidation. Else your efforts might overlap.


Claxon wrote:

Once you get mature companion feat (or similar, not sure if all archetypes classes have the same named option) your animal companion gets 1 action per round if you don't command it, but can only stride or strike (not support).

Frightened can be good, if you remember that AC counts as DC so frightened reduces AC for the whole party.

But you may want to find out if you have a fighter with intimidating strike (not sure that's the name) or someone else who will focus in intimidation. Else your efforts might overlap.

Excellent, ya the group has nobody with any way to frighten, everyone tanked charisma. Bear seems good, but just not sure if extra 1D8 dmg (2D8 damage savage) as a Support Benefit would be better than Frightened 1? Which one would you go with?


It would depend on the party composition somewhat.

Bear is very popular, but remember that your bear has to be within melee range of the enemy to use it. Although, most support benefits require your companion be in melee range. It can get 1d8 or 2d8 damage, but considering that your companion will not have as good an ability to hit as you, that d8 bonus to your damage (lacking the bear's strength in addition) is compensated for by your higher to hit.

Wolf is nice for causing prone condition as part of it's advanced maneuver. Prone causes flat-footed (-2 to AC) and -2 to attacks, and causes the target to be somewhat stuck in place. If you have someone else in the party that has Attacks of Opportunity, standing up will provoke from them. If you have someone next to the enemy to capitalize on this, it's very strong. However it could work against you to some extent as an archer, because it can increase their AC relative to your attacks if they take cover. Although if they spend the action to do so instead of something offensive, you might consider it a win too.

Triceratops actually looks pretty cool once it get's advanced maneuver. It can knock an enemy prone, and then the next turn use it's support benefit to get you extra damage. It's kind of like combining the bear and the wolf, and is also a strong contender.

T-rex for frightened is good. Remember frightened will reduce it's AC and DCs.

Terror bird can make enemies flat-footed as part of its support, and cause persistent bleed on its advanced maneuver.

Those are the stand out options to me.

Which one is best will depend on the rest of the party. Will someone else regularly be causing prone and flat-footed? Is anyone else going to regularly be causing frightened?

Find out those things and choose something not already being done.


Oh it's worth noting that a lack of charisma is not a good way to judge if a character can inflict frightened, as demoralize isn't the only way to cause the frightened condition.

For instance, a fighter can pickup Intimidating Strike which does not require you to make an intimidation check. Instead if you hit (and deal damage) to the creature, it's frightened. Follow it up with Shatter Defenses.

Silver Crusade

Note that if you go Ranger you have 2 options for the Animal Companion.

1) Take a beastmaster archetype. This means that the Animal Companion gets better at level 4, 8, 12 etc.

2) Take the in class animal companion. This allows the companion to use your Ranger ability (precision or flurry) but means that the AC only advances at level 6, 10, 14, etc.

Basically, the Ranger AC is worse at level 4,5 better at 6,7, worse again at 8, 9 better at 10,11 etc etc

Also note that an Animal Companion gradually gets less and less effective compared to your character. If you're going to spend a lot of time at levels 15 or so + this can be important. It never gets useless, mind, but it DOES get less useful relatively speaking.

But the best advice is the advice above. First decide WHAT you want the AC to be.

Depending on the group an AC can also be something like the tank, the flanking buddy for a rogue, etc. If you've got a group of 4 wizards the best AC will be very different than for a group of 4 melee martials.

Another thing to keep in mind (in play) is that your AC is LESS powerful than a martial. Do NOT have your AC take the flank instead of the fighter, block the hallway instead of the Champion, etc. He'll be worse at the job AND it will (rightly) tend to piss off the other players


pauljathome wrote:

Note that if you go Ranger you have 2 options for the Animal Companion.

1) Take a beastmaster archetype. This means that the Animal Companion gets better at level 4, 8, 12 etc.2) Take the in class animal companion. This allows the companion to use your Ranger ability (precision or flurry)

This is not supported by the what the rules say. This is your interpretation. You can mix and match and benefit from both.


Regarding animal companions and Ranger's hunter's edge...if you're using your companion pretty exclusively for support benefits or advanced maneuvers, then hunter's edge can be less useful depending on exactly what the maneuver or support is.

I think Flurry edge is near worthless of an animal companion. To start with companions only have 2 actions per turn, so if you need to move you can't even make multiple attacks to get the benefit from flurry. Secondly, animal companions already have worse attack bonuses, so while reducing the penalty sounds good making 2 attacks in a turn probably isn't that great even with the reduced penalty (although if you're already next to your Prey I don't know what else you would spend it on, since you can't support and attack the same turn).

With Outwit Edge, I think it's of very dubious use, though I guess it does give an AC bonus against your Prey.

Precision Edge will give them bonus damage on their first hit in a turn.

I think this gives the most flexibility, as it should still work with most advanced maneuvers that have you make attacks. And if you might support instead when you find that your companion is just having too much trouble hitting.

Which really leads me more into thinking that a Triceratops would combo well with this.


pauljathome wrote:
Basically, the Ranger AC is worse at level 4,5 better at 6,7, worse again at 8, 9 better at 10,11 etc etc

Even supposing what you said prior to this is true, aren't the Beastmaster's version of the feats worded exactly the same as the Druid / Ranger versions? They simply get access at a different level, or am I missing something.

So there isn't a point where the Ranger companion is better, it simply catches up with the Beastmaster before the Beastmaster pulls ahead again.

Or am I missing something?


I like animal companions for using athletics checks to grab or trip. As Nimble no longer gives expert unarmored defense, Savage seems the obvious choice now as it gives expert athletics, increased strength to succeed at those checks, and more damage (for those few times one uses their strikes). I currently use a riding drake for my sorcerer which has been great for battlefield movement as well as getting enemies flatfooted. Any time enemies attack the drake, those are attacks that didn’t target a PC, which in a way increases the HP pool of not just my character but the whole party’s.

As I see it, the only classes that may not be good choices for an animal companion would be any class that requires all three actions to perform. An example of that would be a Magus due to its spellstrike feature. Otherwise, it may not be the best option, but it is a viable option for nearly every class.


Claxon wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
Basically, the Ranger AC is worse at level 4,5 better at 6,7, worse again at 8, 9 better at 10,11 etc etc

Even supposing what you said prior to this is true, aren't the Beastmaster's version of the feats worded exactly the same as the Druid / Ranger versions? They simply get access at a different level, or am I missing something.

So there isn't a point where the Ranger companion is better, it simply catches up with the Beastmaster before the Beastmaster pulls ahead again.

Or am I missing something?

The Ranger companion gets your Hunter's Edge, so if you're not behind it is just better.


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Lucerious wrote:

I like animal companions for using athletics checks to grab or trip. As Nimble no longer gives expert unarmored defense, Savage seems the obvious choice now as it gives expert athletics, increased strength to succeed at those checks, and more damage (for those few times one uses their strikes). I currently use a riding drake for my sorcerer which has been great for battlefield movement as well as getting enemies flatfooted. Any time enemies attack the drake, those are attacks that didn’t target a PC, which in a way increases the HP pool of not just my character but the whole party’s.

As I see it, the only classes that may not be good choices for an animal companion would be any class that requires all three actions to perform. An example of that would be a Magus due to its spellstrike feature. Otherwise, it may not be the best option, but it is a viable option for nearly every class.

I have a hard time justifying savage companions. A savage companion with heavy barding and a strength specialization is 4AC less than a nimble companion with one of the dex specializations that increase unarmored defense to expert. Fully invested dex companions have caster AC. That isn't a death sentence on the frontline, but 4 less than that is an absolute liability and I imagine most of your time with savage companions late game would be spent scraping them off the pavement as they continually drop to crits. I really want to run strength companions, but I just don't think they're balanced to be worth the class feats


Arachnofiend wrote:
Claxon wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
Basically, the Ranger AC is worse at level 4,5 better at 6,7, worse again at 8, 9 better at 10,11 etc etc

Even supposing what you said prior to this is true, aren't the Beastmaster's version of the feats worded exactly the same as the Druid / Ranger versions? They simply get access at a different level, or am I missing something.

So there isn't a point where the Ranger companion is better, it simply catches up with the Beastmaster before the Beastmaster pulls ahead again.

Or am I missing something?

The Ranger companion gets your Hunter's Edge, so if you're not behind it is just better.

Couldn't you, ignoring the cost of spending the class feats, simply pick up the animal companion via ranger class feats, and then pickup beastmaster dedication for early access to the feats to grow your companion? The dedication feat is kind of worthless in itself, although I guess you'll have two animal companions so you'd have an opportunity to switch between them if that was ever meaningful to you. Although only one would still benefit from your Hunter's Edge.

Still, as I said before I think the Flurry and Outwit edge's don't synergize well with an animal companion anyways. And if you're planning on using your companions support a lot, the edges tend not to matter anyways.


Claxon wrote:

Once you get mature companion feat (or similar, not sure if all archetypes classes have the same named option) your animal companion gets 1 action per round if you don't command it, but can only stride or strike (not support).

Frightened can be good, if you remember that AC counts as DC so frightened reduces AC for the whole party.

But you may want to find out if you have a fighter with intimidating strike (not sure that's the name) or someone else who will focus in intimidation. Else your efforts might overlap.

You mentioned with mature companion the AC can use it's 1 free action without commanding it to strike or stride, so could I use the free action to stride and then one action to command it to support?


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Atalius wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Once you get mature companion feat (or similar, not sure if all archetypes classes have the same named option) your animal companion gets 1 action per round if you don't command it, but can only stride or strike (not support).

Frightened can be good, if you remember that AC counts as DC so frightened reduces AC for the whole party.

But you may want to find out if you have a fighter with intimidating strike (not sure that's the name) or someone else who will focus in intimidation. Else your efforts might overlap.

You mentioned with mature companion the AC can use it's 1 free action without commanding it to strike or stride, so could I use the free action to stride and then one action to command it to support?

No, I don't think it works quite that way but it will have the same net effect you're describing.

If you don't command your (mature) companion, it get's one free action to stride or strike only.

If you command your companion, it get's two action that are not restricted (note that commanding your companion is one action).

Quote:

Command an Animal

Auditory Concentrate
Source Core Rulebook pg. 249 4.0
You issue an order to an animal. Attempt a Nature check against the animal's Will DC. The GM might adjust the DC if the animal has a good attitude toward you, you suggest a course of action it was predisposed toward, or you offer it a treat.

You automatically fail if the animal is hostile or unfriendly to you. If the animal is helpful to you, increase your degree of success by one step. You might be able to Command an Animal more easily with a feat like Ride.

Most animals know the Drop Prone, Leap, Seek, Stand, Stride, and Strike basic actions. If an animal knows an activity, such as a horse's Gallop, you can Command the Animal to perform the activity, but you must spend as many actions on Command an Animal as the activity's number of actions. You can also spend multiple actions to Command the Animal to perform that number of basic actions on its next turn; for instance, you could spend 3 actions to Command an Animal to Stride three times or to Stride twice and then Strike.

Success The animal does as you command on its next turn.
Failure The animal is hesitant or resistant, and it does nothing.
Critical Failure The animal misbehaves or misunderstands, and it takes some other action determined by the GM.

Quote:

Animal Companions

Source Core Rulebook pg. 214 4.0
An animal companion is a loyal comrade who follows your orders. Your animal companion has the animal and minion traits, and it gains 2 actions during your turn if you use the Command an Animal action to command it; this is in place of the usual effects of Command an Animal, and you don't need to attempt a Nature check. If your companion dies, you can spend a week of downtime to replace it at no cost. You can have only one animal companion at a time.
Quote:


Mature Animal Companion (Druid)
Feat 4
Druid
Source Core Rulebook pg. 135 4.0
Prerequisites Animal Companion
Your animal companion grows up, becoming a mature animal companion, which grants it additional capabilities. See the animal companion rules for more information. Your animal companion is better trained than most. During an encounter, even if you don't use the Command an Animal action, your animal companion can still use 1 action on your turn that round to Stride or Strike.
Druid version specifically, but all class' Mature Companion feats are worded similarly

So if you command your companion, it can take 2 actions. Which could be to stride and support.

Technically you can spend more of your actions to give your animal companion more actions, but the 1 for 2 is a special deal for animal companions. Spending 2 of your actions doesn't get you anything over 1, but if you spend 3 actions your animal companion can take 3 actions (at least that's how I understand the rules.


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
Lucerious wrote:

I like animal companions for using athletics checks to grab or trip. As Nimble no longer gives expert unarmored defense, Savage seems the obvious choice now as it gives expert athletics, increased strength to succeed at those checks, and more damage (for those few times one uses their strikes). I currently use a riding drake for my sorcerer which has been great for battlefield movement as well as getting enemies flatfooted. Any time enemies attack the drake, those are attacks that didn’t target a PC, which in a way increases the HP pool of not just my character but the whole party’s.

As I see it, the only classes that may not be good choices for an animal companion would be any class that requires all three actions to perform. An example of that would be a Magus due to its spellstrike feature. Otherwise, it may not be the best option, but it is a viable option for nearly every class.

I have a hard time justifying savage companions. A savage companion with heavy barding and a strength specialization is 4AC less than a nimble companion with one of the dex specializations that increase unarmored defense to expert. Fully invested dex companions have caster AC. That isn't a death sentence on the frontline, but 4 less than that is an absolute liability and I imagine most of your time with savage companions late game would be spent scraping them off the pavement as they continually drop to crits. I really want to run strength companions, but I just don't think they're balanced to be worth the class feats

Taking Savage doesn’t prevent one from taking either Ambusher or Daredevil to get unarmored defense to expert with a boost in dexterity. The result ends up being only 1 point difference in AC not 4.

Silver Crusade

Gortle wrote:
pauljathome wrote:

Note that if you go Ranger you have 2 options for the Animal Companion.

1) Take a beastmaster archetype. This means that the Animal Companion gets better at level 4, 8, 12 etc.2) Take the in class animal companion. This allows the companion to use your Ranger ability (precision or flurry)

This is not supported by the what the rules say. This is your interpretation. You can mix and match and benefit from both.

Am I missing something here? Note, NOT trying to be defensive, I'm genuinely curious what I'm missing.

Going from my rulebook (note AoN brings druid and ranger animal companion to the same place but this section is under a Ranger: section) the Ranger Animal Companion Feat has the text

"When you Hunt Prey, your Animal Companion gains the actions benefit"

The Druid doesn't. Beastmaster doesn't. Beastmaster doesn't even link to Animal Companion, it basically just reprints the text from the druid Animal Companion

How does that NOT mean that that phrase ONLY applies to rangers getting a Ranger animal companion through their class feats?. If a ranger gets an Animal Companion through a Beastmaster archetype how do the words possibly indicate that his companion gets the Hunt Prey benefits?

Note : I can see that things are a little ambiguous if a ranger blows TWO feats (one on a ranger animal companion and one on Beastmaster Archetype). But I am just not seeing ANY way of reading the current text as indicating that a Ranger with an Animal Companion JUST from the Beastmaster archetype would give that Animal Companion the Hunt Prey abilities. So, since at least 3 people disagree with me I'm probably missing something. WHAT is it that I'm missing?


No Paul, I agree with you.

As written it doesn't look like choosing an animal companion from a source other than the Ranger class feat would give your animal companion your Hunter's edge against your prey.

But as I mentioned, if you took the beastmaster dedication (basically wasting a class feat) you could get early access to animal companion advancement.

Of course, I still don't see a much benefit from Flurry or Outwit edge and only moderate usefulness on precision. Tempered by the fact that you may be much more likely to go for its support benefit than making attacks with your companion, depending on your chosen companion.


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Claxon wrote:
No Paul, I agree with you.

Seconded. The Ranger would need to take Animal Companion from Ranger class feat list in order to share their Hunter's Edge with them automatically. Getting a companion from Beastmaster wouldn't do that.

The companion would qualify as an ally for Warden's Boon and similar if that is useful for something.

If the Ranger has both Animal Companion (Ranger) and Beastmaster Dedication, I would allow the Hunter's Edge to apply to all of the companions, but that is my personal ruling on an unclear interaction.


breithauptclan wrote:
Claxon wrote:
No Paul, I agree with you.

Seconded. The Ranger would need to take Animal Companion from Ranger class feat list in order to share their Hunter's Edge with them automatically. Getting a companion from Beastmaster wouldn't do that.

The companion would qualify as an ally for Warden's Boon and similar if that is useful for something.

If the Ranger has both Animal Companion (Ranger) and Beastmaster Dedication, I would allow the Hunter's Edge to apply to all of the companions, but that is my personal ruling on an unclear interaction.

Yes you have to take the 1st level Ranger Feat. Then you take all the Beastmester feats.

All the Ranger feats are worded off your animal companion, All the Beastmaster feats affect all your animal companions. So it is pefect legit to take
Ranger animal companion to get hunt prey benefits, then all the Beastmaster feats.

You end up with two animal companions. You have all the Ranger benefits and all the Beastmaster benefits - some at a slightly different level points.
Portraying them as separate is misleading. Read the wording of the powers. One extra first level feat is not a big price to pay for this.

Building Etienne Navarre as we speak.

Silver Crusade

Gortle wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Claxon wrote:
No Paul, I agree with you.

Seconded. The Ranger would need to take Animal Companion from Ranger class feat list in order to share their Hunter's Edge with them automatically. Getting a companion from Beastmaster wouldn't do that.

The companion would qualify as an ally for Warden's Boon and similar if that is useful for something.

If the Ranger has both Animal Companion (Ranger) and Beastmaster Dedication, I would allow the Hunter's Edge to apply to all of the companions, but that is my personal ruling on an unclear interaction.

Yes you have to take the 1st level Ranger Feat. Then you take all the Beastmester feats.

I think it's ambiguous how that works but I don't think it matters much.

I mainly play PFS where 2 companions aren't allowed. I also know at least some GMs are going to disallow multiple companions.

Personally I don't think it's worth the extra feat to just have 1 ranger companion levelling up quicker.

I have no clue how effective a ranger with 2 companions would be. White room very especially with precision ranger. But in a mobile combat they just won't be able to keep up with the group.


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pauljathome wrote:

I think it's ambiguous how that works but I don't think it matters much.

I mainly play PFS where 2 companions aren't allowed. I also know at least some GMs are going to disallow multiple companions.

Personally I don't think it's worth the extra feat to just have 1 ranger companion levelling up quicker.

I have no clue how effective a ranger with 2 companions would be. White room very especially with precision ranger. But in a mobile combat they just won't be able to keep up with the group.

Having two animal companions is properly described in the Beastmaster archetype. Basically most of the time you only have one in play (till level 16). It is not hard.

I don't play PFS. But this really shouldn't give them too many problems, though I know they restrict options just to make the GMs load a little easier.


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Well 2 animal companions can't be used simultaneously without Lead the Pack feat. Or at least it would lead me to believe.

When you have two companions, you get Call Companion which allows you swap between them.


Lucerious wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Lucerious wrote:

I like animal companions for using athletics checks to grab or trip. As Nimble no longer gives expert unarmored defense, Savage seems the obvious choice now as it gives expert athletics, increased strength to succeed at those checks, and more damage (for those few times one uses their strikes). I currently use a riding drake for my sorcerer which has been great for battlefield movement as well as getting enemies flatfooted. Any time enemies attack the drake, those are attacks that didn’t target a PC, which in a way increases the HP pool of not just my character but the whole party’s.

As I see it, the only classes that may not be good choices for an animal companion would be any class that requires all three actions to perform. An example of that would be a Magus due to its spellstrike feature. Otherwise, it may not be the best option, but it is a viable option for nearly every class.

I have a hard time justifying savage companions. A savage companion with heavy barding and a strength specialization is 4AC less than a nimble companion with one of the dex specializations that increase unarmored defense to expert. Fully invested dex companions have caster AC. That isn't a death sentence on the frontline, but 4 less than that is an absolute liability and I imagine most of your time with savage companions late game would be spent scraping them off the pavement as they continually drop to crits. I really want to run strength companions, but I just don't think they're balanced to be worth the class feats
Taking Savage doesn’t prevent one from taking either Ambusher or Daredevil to get unarmored defense to expert with a boost in dexterity. The result ends up being only 1 point difference in AC not 4.

Ok using the trex instead of a bear in pathbuilder threw me off I think. Still, the bear is two points of AC behind. Are you talking about taking two dex specializations?

Silver Crusade

Gortle wrote:


Having two animal companions is properly described in the Beastmaster archetype. Basically most of the time you only have one in play (till level 16). It is not hard.

Not really sure that I see the point of that except in some edge cases. I'm going to want to build one companion that I bond with (RP), that fights well with my chosen style, etc.

Sure, there is the circumstance where I want a different companion on the ocean than in the city but that definitely seems more an edge case to me than something worth spending character resources on.


Claxon wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Once you get mature companion feat (or similar, not sure if all archetypes classes have the same named option) your animal companion gets 1 action per round if you don't command it, but can only stride or strike (not support).

Frightened can be good, if you remember that AC counts as DC so frightened reduces AC for the whole party.

But you may want to find out if you have a fighter with intimidating strike (not sure that's the name) or someone else who will focus in intimidation. Else your efforts might overlap.

You mentioned with mature companion the AC can use it's 1 free action without commanding it to strike or stride, so could I use the free action to stride and then one action to command it to support?

No, I don't think it works quite that way but it will have the same net effect you're describing.

If you don't command your (mature) companion, it get's one free action to stride or strike only.

If you command your companion, it get's two action that are not restricted (note that commanding your companion is one action).

Quote:

Command an Animal

Auditory Concentrate
Source Core Rulebook pg. 249 4.0
You issue an order to an animal. Attempt a Nature check against the animal's Will DC. The GM might adjust the DC if the animal has a good attitude toward you, you suggest a course of action it was predisposed toward, or you offer it a treat.

You automatically fail if the animal is hostile or unfriendly to you. If the animal is helpful to you, increase your degree of success by one step. You might be able to Command an Animal more easily with a feat like Ride.

Most animals know the Drop Prone, Leap, Seek, Stand, Stride, and Strike basic actions. If an animal knows an activity, such as a horse's Gallop, you can Command the Animal to perform the activity, but you must spend as many actions on Command an Animal as the activity's number of actions. You can also spend multiple actions to Command the Animal to perform that

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Thanks for the very detailed answer Claxon, appreciated! So if I spent an action, I could free action Strike with it, then command an animal and have it Strike again and use it's support Benefit, that seems like a good use of an action to me. The way I understand it is basically he gets one free action every turn, and if I spend an action to command it he gets 2 additional actions.


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Atalius wrote:
Thanks for the very detailed answer Claxon, appreciated! So if I spent an action, I could free action Strike with it, then command an animal and have it Strike again and use it's support Benefit, that seems like a good use of an action to me. The way I understand it is basically he gets one free action every turn, and if I spend an action to command it he gets 2 additional actions.

Glad to help, but I think maybe I've still not explain well because your above statement makes it seem like you still didn't catch how it works.

You only get the 1 action free action if you don't command your (mature) companion.

If you command your companion (1 action) your companion will get 2 actions.

But your companion does not get the free action and then additional actions if you command them. The only way (I know of) that your companion will get 3 actions is if you spent 3 actions to command your companion.

The 1 action when not commanding a mature companion is to give flexibility to your routine, not to increase the overall number of actions they can get in a round.

And animal companions already get a 2 for 1 deal on action economy compared to normal animals. When a PC spends 1 action on commanding their animal companion, the companion gets 2 actions. Normally when a character spends an action to command an animal, the animal gets the same number of actions spent.


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Atalius wrote:
So if I spent an action, I could free action Strike with it, then command an animal and have it Strike again and use it's support Benefit, that seems like a good use of an action to me. The way I understand it is basically he gets one free action every turn, and if I spend an action to command it he gets 2 additional actions.

No, it gets one action to use if you don't command it that round.

Mature Animal Companion wrote:
During an encounter, even if you don't use the Command an Animal action, your animal companion can still use 1 action that round on your turn to Stride toward or Strike your prey.

The companion doesn't get the independent action at the start of your turn every round. It gets it at the end of your turn if you didn't use Command. I would let you have the companion spend that independent action at any point during your turn as long as you don't abuse that permissive ruling. But trying to say that you can spend the independent action first, and then use Command to give the companion two more actions later in your turn is not going to fly.


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Thanks a lot guys, 2 action for 1 still feels very worth it, and if I wanna full on Flurry with all 3 actions, the AC getting 1 free strike is solid.

Horizon Hunters

Lucerious wrote:
As I see it, the only classes that may not be good choices for an animal companion would be any class that requires all three actions to perform. An example of that would be a Magus due to its spellstrike feature. Otherwise, it may not be the best option, but it is a viable option for nearly every class.

I have a Magus riding an AC, the free Stride from Mature Animal Companion is great for action economy. I would say an AC is best for classes that need all 3 actions AND want to move.


qsoe wrote:
Lucerious wrote:
As I see it, the only classes that may not be good choices for an animal companion would be any class that requires all three actions to perform. An example of that would be a Magus due to its spellstrike feature. Otherwise, it may not be the best option, but it is a viable option for nearly every class.
I have a Magus riding an AC, the free Stride from Mature Animal Companion is great for action economy. I would say an AC is best for classes that need all 3 actions AND want to move.

It's specially useful for heavy armored classes like paladins where's a mature companion allows you to ignore heavy armor and even tower shield move penalties and companions can create a new opportunity to use your reaction.


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Getting the free stride action is useful for everyone, but it is also not RAW that the AC goes wherever the PC wants it with the free action.

That said, I was more considering actions based on command, i.e, the two actions one gets for spending one to command.

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