Are there limitations on how many goz masks you can wear?

[Ravingdork]

My players absolutely dominated the second half of the Skull and Shackles adventure path in First Edition because they crafted Goz masks and fog-cutting lenses for the whole party (which let's them see through fog, mists, and similar weather effects), then began every encounter with spells like fog cloud or obscuring mist. I only recall one encounter in the whole adventure path that defeated that tactic.

Now that they've discovered that the Goz mask exists again in Strength of Thousands, they're thinking of recreating their pirate characters for 2nd Edition.

However, the new Goz mask is limited to once per day.

Is there anything preventing them from making a whole bunch of them, then just wearing them one after the other?

Insofar as I can tell, they're only limited by the number of items they can have invested for the day.

[Perpdepog]

Goz masks are Uncommon, so even if they could invest a ton of them they're still well within the GM's control to hand out or not.

You also invest all your items at the beginning of the day, not throughout it. In addition an item only remains invested while you're wearing it, not when it's taken off, and you can't wear multiple items of the same type--hats, masks, eyepieces, etc.

So while each of your party could get their own Goz Mask to help out the others they couldn't each wear multiple Goz Masks, because they're all masks, and swapping from one to another would cause the item to lose its investiture and they'd have to wait until the next day to invest another mask, assuming they were trying to invest multiple masks.

[Jared Walter 356]

As written, it' a little fuzzy. I wouldn't allow it and would use this text from investing items:

CR531
You invest your energy in an item with the invested trait as you don it . This process requires 1 or more Interact actions, usually taking the same amount of time it takes to don the item

and this from items:

CR535
An item that needs to be worn to function lists “worn” as its usage. This is followed by another word if the character is limited to only one of that type of item. For instance, a character can wear any number of rings, so the entry for a ring would list only “worn.” However, if the Usage entry were “worn cloak,” then a character couldn’t wear another cloak on top of that one. It’s assumed that items are meant to be worn by humanoids; any item that can or must be worn by a different type of creature either states this in its description or has the companion trait. Most magic items a character must wear have the invested trait, as described on page 531.

[breithauptclan]

You can only wear one at a time.

But I also don't see anything other than the Investment limit to prevent using multiple of them during a day.

If I have 6 Goz Masks:
At the start of each day, none of them are invested and my investment is at 0.
I put on a Goz Mask and invest it. That mask is invested and worn and I can use it.
I use it, then take it off.
The mask is expended for the day, but it still counts against my investment for the day. So my investment is at 1.
I put on a different Goz Mask and invest it. That mask is now invested and worn and I can use it. My investment count is at 2.
Repeat for the rest of the day.

[Ravingdork]

Perpdepog wrote:

You also invest all your items at the beginning of the day, not throughout it.

Source? I can't seem to find any such rule.

[breithauptclan]

The Invest an Item activity doesn't specify that it has to be done during daily preparations.

You reset your investment limit during daily preparations. and you have the option to re-invest your items during daily preparations, but that is an optional step.

[Jared Walter 356]

CR531:

You can invest no more than 10 items per day. If you remove an invested item, it loses its investiture. The item still counts against your daily limit after it loses its investiture. You reset the limit during your daily preparations, at which point you Invest your Items anew. If you’re still wearing items you had invested the previous day, you can typically keep them invested on the new day, but they still count against your limit.

[Jared Walter 356]

Also CR480:
After you rest, you make your daily preparations, which takes around 1 hour. You can prepare only if you’ve rested, and only once per day. Preparing includes the following:

Spellcasters regain spell slots, and prepared spellcasters choose spells to have available that day.
Focus Points, other abilities that refresh during your preparations, and abilities that can be used only a certain number of times per day, including magic item uses, are reset.
You don armor and equip weapons and other gear.
You invest up to 10 worn magic items to gain their benefits for the day.

[Ravingdork]

Thank you everyone!

I'm still not seeing anything that says you can't invest at other times of the day, only that you CAN do it during morning prep.

Morning prep may be once per day, but nothing I've yet seen says that investing shares such a limitation.

Or do you think you can only don armor, weapons, and other gear once per day as well?

[breithauptclan]

Jared Walter 356 wrote:

CR531:

You can invest no more than 10 items per day. If you remove an invested item, it loses its investiture. The item still counts against your daily limit after it loses its investiture. You reset the limit during your daily preparations, at which point you Invest your Items anew. If you’re still wearing items you had invested the previous day, you can typically keep them invested on the new day, but they still count against your limit.

I read this

Quote:

You reset the limit during your daily preparations, at which point you Invest your Items anew.

as meaning that you lose the investment of the items during your daily preparation. So, more that you need to invest the items anew if you want to continue using them, rather than that this is the only time during the day that you can invest items.

Don't forget about the first paragraph of that same rules text. Investing an item only takes 1 or more interact actions to accomplish and no time of day requirement is given.

[Cordell Kintner]

If you had to invest at the start of the day, then you would have to wait until the next day to use any fancy gear you obtain during your adventures, which definitely isn't intended.

You invest it as you put it on, it's that simple. Once invested you can remove the item but it still counts toward your daily limit. I wouldn't say investing multiple masks over the course of the day is a good use of your limited investment slots, but they can totally do it if they wanted.

[Captain Morgan]

Worth pointing out fog is much less disruptive than PF1. It only provides 20% concealment at all distances, as opposed to 50% from more than 5 feet away. PF1 also made it much more difficult to locate a target, where in PF2 someone needs to use Hide and Sneak actions to avoid being spotted.

So generally unless your party is really into stealth this won't be any different than all of them drinking Mistform Elixirs.

[Ravingdork]

Captain Morgan wrote:

Worth pointing out fog is much less disruptive than PF1. It only provides 20% concealment at all distances, as opposed to 50% from more than 5 feet away. PF1 also made it much more difficult to locate a target, where in PF2 someone needs to use Hide and Sneak actions to avoid being spotted.

So generally unless your party is really into stealth this won't be any different than all of them drinking Mistform Elixirs.

Between the new mask limitations and the new rules for fog and concealment, I think they will be sorely disappointed.

[Eoran]

I was mildly curious why you were so interested in spending so much gold on masks that approximately duplicate the effects of Murksight temporarily.

[Ravingdork]

Eoran wrote:

I was mildly curious why you were so interested in spending so much gold on masks that approximately duplicate the effects of Murksight temporarily.

Murksight has no value against magical fog effects, and isn't reliably obtainable before 8th-level.

[graystone]

Ravingdork wrote:

Eoran wrote:

I was mildly curious why you were so interested in spending so much gold on masks that approximately duplicate the effects of Murksight temporarily.

Murksight has no value against magical fog effects, and isn't reliably obtainable before 8th-level.

Cloud Gazer, Emberkin or Storm Born work on magic and are lower level.

[Ectar]

You can invest an item as part of donning it. However, once invested it counts towards your investiture limit for the entire day, even if you doff it and don a different item in the same slot. Source

So without anything increasing the limit, you could wear 10 different Goz Masks in a day and swing around a magic weapon, but past that you'd be limited to non-invested magic items.

[Eoran]

Ravingdork wrote:

Murksight has no value against magical fog effects,

Neither does a Goz Mask.

[Ravingdork]

Eoran wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Murksight has no value against magical fog effects,

Neither does a Goz Mask.

"You ignore concealment caused by fog, smoke, and other obscuring vapors for 1 minute."

Major: "...allows you to ignore all concealment from any environmental effects for 1 hour."

Goz mask makes no distinction between magical and non-magical fog, smoke, or other obscuring vapors whatsoever.

[ottdmk]

I still prefer a simple Cat's Eye Elixers, but that is a) consumable and b) has a 30' limit to it's Concealment cancelling/Hidden flat check reducing capabilities.

[Squiggit]

graystone wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Eoran wrote:

I was mildly curious why you were so interested in spending so much gold on masks that approximately duplicate the effects of Murksight temporarily.

Murksight has no value against magical fog effects, and isn't reliably obtainable before 8th-level.

Cloud Gazer, Emberkin or Storm Born work on magic and are lower level.

Still one of the meanest things Paizo did to witches, giving them a worse version of a druid feat 7 levels later.

[graystone]

Squiggit wrote:

graystone wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

Eoran wrote:

I was mildly curious why you were so interested in spending so much gold on masks that approximately duplicate the effects of Murksight temporarily.

Murksight has no value against magical fog effects, and isn't reliably obtainable before 8th-level.

Cloud Gazer, Emberkin or Storm Born work on magic and are lower level.

Still one of the meanest things Paizo did to witches, giving them a worse version of a druid feat 7 levels later.

I don't know. Seems like it was just kicking them when they where down after only letting them have 1 hex, giving them phase familiar as their focus spell and making them pay for lessons. After playing with Witches+ it makes me sad to see/play the normal witch: it errata's Murkvision to work on "darkness, illusions, weather, and other effects" which IMO matches the level better.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Perpdepog wrote:

Goz masks are Uncommon, so even if they could invest a ton of them they're still well within the GM's control to hand out or not.

They can just craft them, as long as the party gets one, that is enough.