If those videos still aren't enough, come back here and let us know.
Though more specific questions about what in particular is confusing would be very helpful.
It takes a minute to get it all down, but once you do it runs fairly easy. I wish they were more detailed with some of these senses myself. I do like that Stealth doesn't allow full rounds of attack before people act like before and can be used for initiative now.
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Also, look up "how it's played". The channel does a lot of good work for pf2e.
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It really isn't actually all that complicated. The rules for stealth are actually pretty common sense. But for sure, they're pretty detailed.
The first big concept is degrees of awareness. You're aware of someone being in the scene with you to some degree:
* Unnoticed: you don't know they're there at all.
* Undetected: you know there's someone there somewhere, but you don't know exactly where.
* Hidden: you know someone's there, you know where they are, but can't see them directly.
* Observed: you can see them directly.
The second big concept is that people are trying to go up on this ladder, so that you lose track of them.
For example, someone is standing in the middle of a room. Well, then they're in plain sight, and there's no chance for them to hide. They're Observed by you.
Next they walk behind a column which sorta makes it hard to see them. But it's not a huuuuuge column. Maybe you see a beer belly sticking out? They at least have some cover, so they're allowed to make a Stealth check to Hide (to suck in that beer belly). If they succeed then you can't see them anymore directly (so, become Hidden) but you still remember where that happened, so they're Hidden but not yet Undetected.
Next, they're going to wait for that split second when you're looking the other way, and sneak to behind another column. That's a Sneak check, while Hidden, to move somewhere else and become Undetected. If they succeed, you no longer know where exactly they are.
Finally, you can't normally upgrade past that. Unless you use something like memory erasing magic, people will remember you were there, so you can't go from Undetected to Unnoticed.
So to sum up, you're dealing with these ideas:
- Degrees of awareness that describe just how much you can spot of what the sneaky fellow is up to and where.
- Requirements to be allowed to start being sneaky (something that at least gives you a bit of a chance to hide behind; the skill check says if it worked).
- Actions+skill checks to try to become better hidden (and then undetected).
- The states of awareness have mechanical effects. If someone is Hidden, targeting them with attacks or spells is harder. If someone is Undetected, you might be launching your attack at the wrong square, since you don't even know where you need to aim. And if you can't see someone, you're flat-footed against them.
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(Yes, there's more to it. But these are the big ideas to start with.)
Thanks for all the replies...they helped. I still think it's unnecessarily complex...however I do now understand the logic of it better.
What part do you think is unnecessary?
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Thanks for all the replies...they helped. I still think it's unnecessarily complex...however I do now understand the logic of it better.
Sure, it would have been possible to do it a bit simpler maybe, and quite a few other games I think do have simpler versions. But this one has some things going for it too:
- If you want to play a stealth oriented character, the rules make it clear what you need to be good at (Stealth skill, a decent movement speed, some feats to sneak faster etc), and what you need from the battlefield (stuff to hide behind). It gives agency to the player because the rules are firm. You can make a tactical plan knowing what things you can rely on.
- If you're fighting against someone using stealth, likewise. You know what kind of things are important (Perception, staying away from cover that people could use to get close to you etc.).
- Just because someone is invisible doesn't mean you have no chance against them. Even player characters could have really good sense of smell for example.
- Okay, so there's an invisible enemy, can you still attack them? How does that work? Does it matter if you know where exactly they are? The rules cover all those questions too.
So basically what it comes down to is, sneaky stuff can be a serious part of combat and the rules give people a lot of things to do, but keep it fair too. And they handle PCs who have freaky abilities as well.
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Keep in mind: When you're Hidden or Undetected, you can Step to avoid further Stealth checks, as long as you stay Covered or Concealed.