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My brain is failing me today, but I'm wondering: when it comes to weapons covered by an ancestry's familiarity feats, if the weapon is Martial, can a PC access that weapon if they have proficiency with martial weapons by default from their class, or do they need to take the familiarity feat to have access to those weapons period, regardless of class?
Like, can an elf fighter use an elven branched spear right out of the box, or do they still need to take Elven Weapon Familiarity?
If the weapon is Unconmon, it‘s technically up to the GM to grant or not to grant access without the feat. You might want to ask them before taking a otherwise useless tax feat.
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Access is limited by rarity, and you do not have access to 'non-common' weapons unless something specifically states that you do (an ancestry feat or a GM's house rule).
Source
Core Rulebook pg. 637 4.0
In the case of the Elven Branched Spear, all fighters are technically proficient if they happen to find one (it's a Martial Weapon), but fighters without access can't just purchase them from the local shop: They'd most likely have to loot one from an opponent...
If you're already proficient in martial weapons, then the proficiency part of the feat will only be relevant to you for advanced weapons, yes.
The proficiency is perfectly relevant to other characters that might want to take the feat. For martial weapons, this is commonly relevant to rogues, for example.
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The proficiency is perfectly relevant to other characters that might want to take the feat. For martial weapons, this is commonly relevant to rogues, for example.
This is true, no denying that, but if you're playing something like a champion or a magus it becomes a feat tax unless the GM agrees to let you have it. Therefore if you're just designing a character in the hypothetical without a GM to yea or nay, you're out of luck.
If you already have martial weapon proficiency, and you ask your GM "Hey, can I start with an Elven Curve Blade?" and they say "yes" then you're good. Generally as a GM you should say "yes" here unless there's a good reason not to.
You might want the familiarity feat even if it doesn't do anything for you proficiency wise, since the upgrade gives you the critical specialization that you might not get in class, but that's about it.
The value of these feats for Martials is mostly that you get to peg an ancestral advanced weapon to your martial proficiency, since otherwise only fighters, gunslingers, and specific archetypes are usable with advanced weapons.
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And while a GM could technically restrict ancestral weapons due to rarity, doing so feels pretty bad.
Why can the Gnome character not have a Gnome Hooked Hammer?
I might not let them have four Gnome Flickmaces to pass around to the rest of the party though. They only get one for themselves.
Erwut? Surely elves have access to elven weapons. That's the whole point of the weapons having the elf trait. It literally says "A weapon with this trait is created and used by elves."
Weapon Familiarity is for those elves who wouldn't otherwise be proficient, or want it as a stepping stone to the later ancestry weapon feats.
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Weapon Familiarity is for those elves who wouldn't otherwise be proficient, or want it as a stepping stone to the later ancestry weapon feats.
Look at the feat: "In addition, you gain access to all uncommon elf weapons." If you already have access why would it grant it again? I don't recall anything with racial traits allowing access to uncommon weapons.
For instance, Elf says "An ability with this trait can be used or selected only by elves. A weapon with this trait is created and used by elves." Note access is ONLY to abilities with weapons only mentioned as elves create and use them.
Look at the feat: "In addition, you gain access to all uncommon elf weapons." If you already have access why would it grant it again?
For characters that get the feat through Adopted Ancestry.
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My take is that these feats grant you access as a fallback measure. Getting access is NOT the main point of the feat. It's just that, if you took the feat to become proficient in a weapon and then didn't have access, the whole feat would be pointless, so it gives you insurance.
If you're an elf and making a character at level 1, then accessing a curve blade should not be an issue. You've had a few hundred years to find one.
If you take the feat at level 5 while the party is in some hamlet just off the border of Mordor, then normally you wouldn't be able to get an uncommon elf weapon. But that's where the access insurance comes in.
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Note that PFS is different. In PFS the GM (the worldwide organized play coordinator) can't look over individual PCs' casefile and decide whether to allow some uncommon stuff. So in PFS you really need the feat for access.
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Erwut? Surely elves have access to elven weapons. That's the whole point of the weapons having the elf trait. It literally says "A weapon with this trait is created and used by elves."
Weapon Familiarity is for those elves who wouldn't otherwise be proficient, or want it as a stepping stone to the later ancestry weapon feats.
Reasonable GM allowance of Access, certainly. Mechanically granted Access? Absolutely not.
Look at the feat: "In addition, you gain access to all uncommon elf weapons." If you already have access why would it grant it again?For characters that get the feat through Adopted Ancestry.
This.
Beat me to it. That passage exists for non-elves who take the feat.
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Look at the feat: "In addition, you gain access to all uncommon elf weapons." If you already have access why would it grant it again?For characters that get the feat through Adopted Ancestry.
I guess it could for that, but it doesn't change the fact that the place that grants access to things, the trait, only does so for abilities.