I recently came up with the idea of pairing the Peacemaker + Mediator combo, with the Evangelist Cleric archetype.
It seems like a really strong foundation to build a cleric on. I have a few ideas on which to expand on it.
- Eldritch Heritage Imperious for Student of Humanity, Heroic Echo, Heroic Legends, and then add the Heroism subdomain.
- Spell Perfection, with Heightened Spell, Selective Spell, and Quicken Spell. Then use Calm Emotions for area control
Still in the preliminary stages of putting this together, what do you think?
You end up being a fantastic buffer with Heroic Echo+Heroism, Inspire Courage, and Heroic Legends (Inspire Heroics), as well as fantastic at area control with the spontaneous Evangelist spells buffed by Peacemaker and Mediator.
That is the idea anyway
Humans have an alternative racial feature called Silver Tongued, giving a +2 bonus to Diplomacy, as well as allowing you to use Diplomacy to change a creatute's attitude by three steps instead of two. Combine that with the Concilator story feat, and some cheap Authorative Vestments... This gives you a swift action Diplomacy check that affects everyone in a 60' radius... even if they are hostile/unfriendly.
I like your concept, by the way.
Starting with only the prerequisite 13 in Charisma, with one rank in Diplomacy, you have a decent +8 (+3 class skill +2 racial +1 charisma +1 rank +1 trait) Diplomacy modifier... AND you can spontaneously cast Command, which is sitting at a DC of 14 + your Wisdom modifier (+2 peacemaker +1 spell level +1 trait).
This is what I have come up with
OUTLINE
Race: Half-Elf
Class: Cleric 20
Archetypes: Evangelist
Stats
Str: 8
Dex: 12
Cons: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 18+2:20
Cha: 13
ATTRIBUTE INCREASES
4,8,12,16,20 - WIS
TRAITS
(______) (_______)
Mediator (Social)
FEATS
Level 1 - Cleric - Level - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 1 - Cleric - Half-Elf - Skill Focus: Perform-Oratory
Level 3 - Cleric - Level - Peacemaker
Level 5 - Cleric - Level - Heightened Spell
Level 7 - Cleric - Level - Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 9 - Cleric - Level - Quicken Spell
Level 11 - Cleric - Level - Improved Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 13 - Cleric - Level - Selective Spell
Level 15 - Cleric - Level - Spell Perfection
Level 17 - Cleric - Level - Greater Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 19 - Cleric - Level - Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
DOMAINS
Domain - Heroism
OPTIONS
I would love to squeeze in Extra Performance and Master Performer, and of course Improved Initiative would also be nice
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Why heightened metamagic? Persistent is almost always better than heightened, even for low-level spells.
If this is a “playing from level 1-20” character (as opposed to starting at 20) you are definitely going to want lingering performance.
I played a similar concept Evangelist up to level 15 and once I got it, greater command became my bread and butter. Even made it my perfected spell. Versatile and powerful. Peacemaker could apply to it, though mediator would not.
Why heightened metamagic? Persistent is almost always better than heightened, even for low-level spells.
Persistant is good, it is worth roughly +3.325 to the DC. I figured with the headroom of Calm Emotions being a level 2 spell, Heightened would win out.
If this is a “playing from level 1-20” character (as opposed to starting at 20) you are definitely going to want lingering performance.
Lingering is another great feat, one on the list alongside Improved Init, and Master Performer. I just don't know if it beats out any of the other feats I currently have because they are all so intertwined
I played a similar concept Evangelist up to level 15 and once I got it, greater command became my bread and butter. Even made it my perfected spell. Versatile and powerful. Peacemaker could apply to it, though mediator would not.
I would love to challenge myself to play a whole game without casting any offensive spells, or rolling a single attack. Buff, and tell people to 'Chill Out' only
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I played a similar concept Evangelist up to level 15 and once I got it, greater command became my bread and butter. Even made it my perfected spell. Versatile and powerful. Peacemaker could apply to it, though mediator would not.I would love to challenge myself to play a whole game without casting any offensive spells, or rolling a single attack. Buff, and tell people to 'Chill Out' only
The problem here (usually) is that you're part of a party. Sure, you can cast calm emotions very effectively. But as soon as any member of your party attacks, it breaks for everyone affected. So this kind of strategy only works if your entire party is committed to a non-violent game. Otherwise it's frustrating to the rest of the party who never get to use any of the cool abilities they selected. When I played my "talk them out of it" character, I would usually limit myself to shutting down one encounter a session (or none) and let the others show off the rest of the time.
Persistant is good, it is worth roughly +3.325 to the DC. I figured with the headroom of Calm Emotions being a level 2 spell, Heightened would win out.Why heightened metamagic? Persistent is almost always better than heightened, even for low-level spells.
Persistent/Heightened comes down to the spells you are using. And of course has a degree of personal preference and how well it fits into your campaign. An evangelist has to prepare all her cure/inflict spells (can't spontaneously convert either way) and isn't good at channeling. Every calm emotions you have to prepare is yet another slot taken and reduction to your versatility. The evangelist's spontaneous spells (command, enthrall, suggestion, etc.) don't take up that space. If you're using those spells Persistent wins out because the "headroom" disappears as you shift to higher level spells.
Again, a lot of this is personal preference. Definitely not saying I'm right and you're wrong! Other than maybe the first point in this post. You should definitely make sure you're not accidentally creating an un-fun environment for your fellow players.
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Oh: unless you have an RP reason for being a half-elf, human is a great choice for a character planning to take Eldritch Heritage. You already know you need at least one Skill Focus. The Focused Study alternate racial trait gives you one at 1st level, another at 8th, and a 3rd at 16th. It replaces bonus feat, so essentially it's two "free" Skill Focus feats by 16th.
The problem here (usually) is that you're part of a party. Sure, you can cast calm emotions very effectively. But as soon as any member of your party attacks, it breaks for everyone affected.
I must have misread/overlooked that part.....
Persistent/Heightened comes down to the spells you are using. And of course has a degree of personal preference and how well it fits into your campaign. An evangelist has to prepare all her cure/inflict spells (can't spontaneously convert either way) and isn't good at channeling. Every calm emotions you have to prepare is yet another slot taken and reduction to your versatility. The evangelist's spontaneous spells (command, enthrall, suggestion, etc.) don't take up that space. If you're using those spells Persistent wins out because the "headroom" disappears as you shift to higher level spells.
Which makes this an even more compelling argument. I think I will swap then.
*And that of course means I have little use for Selective Spell. Without a 3rd Metamagic feat I don't qualify for Spell Perfection. Perhaps Encouraging Spell to boost Heroism? Another option is to drop Spell Perfection, grab Greater Spell Focus, and be happy with a +5 DC to peaceful spells, leaving feat space for Master Performer/Lingering Performance/Improved Initiative etc
Oh: unless you have an RP reason for being a half-elf, human is a great choice for a character planning to take Eldritch Heritage. You already know you need at least one Skill Focus. The Focused Study alternate racial trait gives you one at 1st level, another at 8th, and a 3rd at 16th. It replaces bonus feat, so essentially it's two "free" Skill Focus feats by 16th.
Isn't it funny how as players we justify making certain jumps. You say 3 Skill Foci are better than 1. I went from 1 Bonus Feat to 1 Skill Focus + Elven Immunities, and Lowlight/Darkvision (Blended View).
Admittedly the human 'Skilled' part for extra skill points would be nice, but that might again be better with 'Silver-Tongued'. With so few skill points to go around, how much benefit is 3 Skill Focus I wander.
1. Skill Focus - Perform
2. Skill Focus - Diplomacy
3. Skill Focus - KN: Religion
UPDATE
TRAITS
(______) (_______)
Mediator (Social)
FEATS
Level 1 - Cleric - Level - Peacemaker
Level 1 - Cleric - Half-Elf - Skill Focus: Perform-Oratory
Level 3 - Cleric - Level - Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 5 - Cleric - Level - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 7 - Cleric - Level - ??????
Level 9 - Cleric - Level - Quicken Spell
Level 11 - Cleric - Level - Improved Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 13 - Cleric - Level - Persistent Spell
Level 15 - Cleric - Level - Spell Perfection
Level 17 - Cleric - Level - Greater Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 19 - Cleric - Level - ???
DOMAINS
Domain - Heroism
Working on clarifying what spells work with Mediator and Peacemaker
I put this quick google sheet together (Editable to all). I would appreciate if anyone can help work it out.
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Oh: unless you have an RP reason for being a half-elf, human is a great choice for a character planning to take Eldritch Heritage. You already know you need at least one Skill Focus. The Focused Study alternate racial trait gives you one at 1st level, another at 8th, and a 3rd at 16th. It replaces bonus feat, so essentially it's two "free" Skill Focus feats by 16th.Isn't it funny how as players we justify making certain jumps. You say 3 Skill Foci are better than 1. I went from 1 Bonus Feat to 1 Skill Focus + Elven Immunities, and Lowlight/Darkvision (Blended View).
Admittedly the human 'Skilled' part for extra skill points would be nice, but that might again be better with 'Silver-Tongued'. With so few skill points to go around, how much benefit is 3 Skill Focus I wander.
Admittedly, I value skill points much more than the typical poster on these boards and almost never play a character with less than 12 Int. My particular evangelist/scroll scholar had an Int of 14, was human, and put all FCB towards skill points. Giving me 6 skill ranks per level. Anyway, Skill Focus gives you at least +3 to the skill regardless of how many ranks you have in it. A cleric with a Wisdom of +7, no ranks in Perception, and Skill Focus: Perception has a +10 to Perception.
And that of course means I have little use for Selective Spell. Without a 3rd Metamagic feat I don't qualify for Spell Perfection. Perhaps Encouraging Spell to boost Heroism? Another option is to drop Spell Perfection, grab Greater Spell Focus, and be happy with a +5 DC to peaceful spells, leaving feat space for Master Performer/Lingering Performance/Improved Initiative etc
My three were Persistent, Extend, and Reach (in that order). Extend for buffs, especially 10 min/level buffs, and Reach for healing spells. Once I was able to I always kept a Reach breath of life prepared. I love Quicken but it's tricky for a cleric (in particular one who isn't a damage caster) to make good use of it. What 1st-level spells are worth filling up one of your precious 5th-level slots? Tough to decide what needs to be prepared with it. Spell Perfection changes the calculation somewhat but in my particular case since I knew I was perfecting greater command I wouldn't be able to throw both Persistent and Quicken on it. If I was perfecting a 3rd level or lower spell, yes.
UPDATE
Dropped Spell Perfection. A usual Spell Perfection user is aiming to double Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus to a +4 bonus to one spells DC. That costs 6 Feats in total to do (Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, 3 Metamagic Feats, Spell Perfection). Peacemaker takes care of needing 3 Metamagic feats and Spell Perfection, and works with a lot more. +4 to many spell (+5 for spells that Mediator works with as well), and at a far earlier level.
That frees up feats for Master Performer, and increases my buffing further.
Also by moving Eldritch Heritage to levels 9 and 11, Human becomes more attractive again with Focused Study. Picking up Perform at 8, and using the 1st one for Diplomacy or something
TRAITS
Reactionary (Combat)
Mediator (Social)
FEATS
Level 1 - Cleric - Level - Extra Performance
Level 1 - Cleric - Half-Elf - Skill Focus: Perform-Oratory
Level 3 - Cleric - Level - Peacemaker
Level 5 - Cleric - Level - Master Performer
Level 7 - Cleric - Level - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 9 - Cleric - Level - Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 11 - Cleric - Level - Improved Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 13 - Cleric - Level - Persistent Spell
Level 15 - Cleric - Level - Greater Spell Focus
Level 17 - Cleric - Level - Greater Eldritch Heritage: Imperious
Level 19 - Cleric - Level - ???
Made a mistake with Imperious, it doesn't boost Aura of Heroism or Inspire Courage so went with my second choice and honestly it does look better and more well-rounded on paper
TRAITS
Reactionary (Combat)
Mediator (Social)
FEATS
Level 1 - Cleric - Level - Extra Performance
Level 1 - Cleric - Half-Elf - Skill Focus: Perform-Oratory
Level 3 - Cleric - Level - Peacemaker
Level 5 - Cleric - Level - Master Performer
Level 7 - Cleric - Level - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 9 - Cleric - Level - Eldritch Heritage: Martyred
Level 11 - Cleric - Level - Improved Eldritch Heritage: Martyred - Rallying Call
Level 13 - Cleric - Level - Persistent Spell
Level 15 - Cleric - Level - Greater Spell Focus
Level 17 - Cleric - Level - Greater Eldritch Heritage: Martyred
Level 19 - Cleric - Level - ???
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Some Opinions:
1. Extra Performance is outclassed by Lingering Performance. At the low levels Extra Performance might give you an extra encounter's worth of buffing. Lingering can potentially triple your rounds of sermonic performance. (In theory. You have to give up every third standard action to restart the performance so in practice that's only true for the first couple of levels when you don't have enough spell slots to cast continuously anyway.) Once you can start a performance as a move action - or a swift - you are even more likely to be able to work the restart into your action rotation. And don't forget the big benefit of Lingering. It continues even if something happens to you (stunned, knocked unconscious, plane shifted, etc.).
2. I know you use d20pfsrd, but you really need to check with your GM before planning on Master Performer. If you look in the books or Archives of Nethys you will see that feat has a prerequisite of Kitharodian Academy 15 TPA (Total Prestige Award). TPA is a subsystem that requires active GM content creation. Not to mention role-playing a fairly solid Kitharodian connection. The system is not "I visited there once so I can take the feat" it's an ongoing relationship where you earn Prestige by doing missions specific to the faction.
3. Are you still sticking with the heroism subdomain? If so, I don't think your Eldritch Heritage plan is very helpful. You are spending a lot of feats and getting Rallying Cry, which doesn't stack with Aura of Heroism (or heroism/greater heroism, for that matter).
Some Opinions:
1. Extra Performance is outclassed by Lingering Performance. At the low levels Extra Performance might give you an extra encounter's worth of buffing. Lingering can potentially triple your rounds of sermonic performance. (In theory. You have to give up every third standard action to restart the performance so in practice that's only true for the first couple of levels when you don't have enough spell slots to cast continuously anyway.) Once you can start a performance as a move action - or a swift - you are even more likely to be able to work the restart into your action rotation. And don't forget the big benefit of Lingering. It continues even if something happens to you (stunned, knocked unconscious, plane shifted, etc.).
2. I know you use d20pfsrd, but you really need to check with your GM before planning on Master Performer. If you look in the books or Archives of Nethys you will see that feat has a prerequisite of Kitharodian Academy 15 TPA (Total Prestige Award). TPA is a subsystem that requires active GM content creation. Not to mention role-playing with the Kitharodian Connection.
I am allowed to use Master Performer. We house wave the Academy requirement. That is why I need Extra Performance
Some Opinions:
3. Are you still sticking with the heroism subdomain? If so, I don't think your Eldritch Heritage plan is very helpful. You are spending a lot of feats and getting Rallying Cry, which doesn't stack with Aura of Heroism (or heroism/greater heroism, for that matter).
Rallying Cry and Heroism do not stack, but the Aura has limited uses, and Rallying Cry can produce an even bigger morale bonus but, I had considered the Leadership subdomain as an option
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Rallying Cry and Heroism do not stack, but the Aura has limited uses, and Rallying Cry can produce an even bigger morale bonusSome Opinions:
3. Are you still sticking with the heroism subdomain? If so, I don't think your Eldritch Heritage plan is very helpful. You are spending a lot of feats and getting Rallying Cry, which doesn't stack with Aura of Heroism (or heroism/greater heroism, for that matter).
Unless I'm missing something else great about the martyred bloodline you are spending at least three feats for a once-per-day ability. Which won't get to +3 until 13th level (at which point it lasts 5 rounds). The big sticking point to me is the "once-per-day for three feats" part.
If it were me trying to get big morale bonuses out: I'd switch to the revelry subdomain, take metamagic feats (especially Encouraging) instead of Eldritch Heritage feats, take Spell Perfection at 15, and throw out good hope every combat. But that's me. If you like your concept then I like it too!
If it were me trying to get big morale bonuses out: I'd switch to the revelry subdomain, take metamagic feats (especially Encouraging) instead of Eldritch Heritage feats, take Spell Perfection at 15, and throw out good hope every combat. But that's me. If you like your concept then I like it too!
Good Hope would be an amazing addition. My only concern with it is it is a domain slot, so either it is prepared in higher domain slots, or I jump through hoops for preferred spell.
Encouraging Spell I had not thought of though for getting a 4th slot Good Hope
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If it were me trying to get big morale bonuses out: I'd switch to the revelry subdomain, take metamagic feats (especially Encouraging) instead of Eldritch Heritage feats, take Spell Perfection at 15, and throw out good hope every combat. But that's me. If you like your concept then I like it too!Good Hope would be an amazing addition. My only concern with it is it is a domain slot, so either it is prepared in higher domain slots, or I jump through hoops for preferred spell.
Encouraging Spell I had not thought of though for getting a 4th slot Good Hope
I'm not a fan of the fourth and fifth level domain spells for Revelry, so for me they're not really a sacrifice. And as you get up to the higher levels Pearls of Power 3 become affordable. There's also the option of using channel the gift but it either takes you two rounds to get off the good hope or one of your party members has to give up a standard action to power it (and a spell slot, if they aren't using a wand).
I'm not a fan of the fourth and fifth level domain spells for Revelry
Yeah 100% agree with that
Anyway, here is a quick Revelry variant
TRAITS
Reactionary (Combat)
Mediator (Social)
FEATS
Level 1 - Cleric - Level - Lingering Performance
Level 1 - Cleric - Human - Improved Initiative
Level 3 - Cleric - Level - Peacemaker
Level 5 - Cleric - Level - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 7 - Cleric - Level - Encouraging Spell
Level 9 - Cleric - Level - Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Level 11 - Cleric - Level - Persistent Spell
Level 13 - Cleric - Level - Quicken Spell
Level 15 - Cleric - Level - Spell Perfection
Level 17 - Cleric - Level -
Level 19 - Cleric - Level -